It is time sanders drops out.

[fskimospy]

So she's for it, but not really.

You are all a bunch of rubes.

It's an idea that she supports but doesn't think will happen anytime soon. Seems like she's 100% correct on that.

Seems like these rubes have it figured out a lot better than you do as you seem to think someone stating objective reality somehow defines their personal preference. For example, I'm perfectly fine with stating that I will never, ever sleep with Jennifer Lawrence. That doesn't mean I oppose the idea.

Looks like you could learn a thing or two from us rubes, eh?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That seems like a lot of speculation. From your link:


and:



It doesn't seem like this is an open and shut case like you make it out to be.

How about you prove that genocide actually occurred or that there was strong evidence that it was a legitimate and imminent threat as Hillary asserted. Numerous sources in the article I cited say it wasn't, but hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt....if you have some compelling evidence to support Hillary's assertion...this would be a good time to bring it up.

 

[fskimospy]

Jesus you're both morons. Does Kurdish genocide ring a bell?

The Kurdish genocide that happened more than a decade before the invasion? Good thing GWB swooped in there so quickly to save the day!

That has to be one of the most moronic attempted justifications I've ever heard.

 

[BoberFett]

It's an idea that she supports but doesn't think will happen anytime soon. Seems like she's 100% correct on that.

Seems like these rubes have it figured out a lot better than you do as you seem to think someone stating objective reality somehow defines their personal preference. For example, I'm perfectly fine with stating that I will never, ever sleep with Jennifer Lawrence. That doesn't mean I oppose the idea.

Looks like you could learn a thing or two from us rubes, eh?

How much effort are you putting into sleeping with Jennifer Lawrence? If it's never going to happen, you're probably not putting any effort into it. If you don't put in any effort, then no it will never happen. She's creating the conditions for it never happening, by saying it will never happen.

You probably have a lot to learn from others as well.

 

[ivwshane]

Are you really that dense? She had stated and her policy goals have shown that she intends to build on the ACA to make it closer to universal health care. That's historically how change has occurred in this country, slowly, through compromise.

And yes it is a waste of time and resources but that doesn't change the fact that that's how this country has operated since the beginning.

So she's fighting for something that she says will NEVER EVER happen? Sounds like a waste of time and resources.




Fox News? Are you saying that every one of the many, many news outlets that reported on that are just parroting Fox News?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hillary+single+payer+will+never+come+to+pass

You are barely literate. Please don't vote.



So she's for it, but not really.


You are all a bunch of rubes.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Universal Healthcare = all people are covered
Single Payer System = only 1 payer

They are not necessarily mutually inclusive.


I think Hillary is pushing for trying to achieve universal healthcare, but, using a many payer system similar to what we already have. (most expensive option?)

 

[sontakke]

Seriously, exactly what is the beef between a typical Bernie supporter and Hillary supporter? Something very real and something very tangible without name calling? Please don't say "Shillary is for wall street" etc. Can you list black and white differences like typical anti/pro crowd?

 

[Mursilis]

Hillary is dishonest, but she apologizes when she fucks up, and, while she clearly is taking legal bribes from corporations, she is also taking legal bribes from Unions. Generally you dont bite the hand that feeds, so, I dont think she will fuck over the middle class.

Trump is dishonest, but he simply doesn't admit to his fuckups. he is like a polished turd. People say you cant polish a turd, but, he is proof that they are wrong.

Sanders appears to be honest, but, he more or less limits the scope of his comments/arguments. He more or less runs on his agenda which he spells out gladly for everybody who will listen. he hasn't gotten caught wit his pants down, so, not sure how that would play out if that theoretic scenario were to play out.

Anyhow, I guess, I learned something this election season, you CAN polish a turd.

Which is what I was saying, and in rush the Hillary fans to pretend she hasn't been all over both sides of the issues. Still, most of their arguments in favor of Hillary appear to be variations on "but she's not as dishonest as Trump!", which is a ridiculously low bar. Given that the GOP base seems intent on crashing and burning the party via Trump, the Dems have a chance to actually elect someone who might still have some integrity, and instead we're getting Hillary as our likely next President. Swell.

 

[BoberFett]

Seriously, exactly what is the beef between a typical Bernie supporter and Hillary supporter? Something very real and something very tangible without name calling? Please don't say "Shillary is for wall street" etc. Can you list black and white differences like typical anti/pro crowd?

Are you saying it's not enough to know that Hillary accepts millions upon millions upon millions of dollars from the very same corporations which she says she's going to go after? Democrats hate Republicans because, among other things, they're in bed with corporations. Well what they hell do they think Hillary is doing under the sheets?

 

[fskimospy]

How much effort are you putting into sleeping with Jennifer Lawrence? If it's never going to happen, you're probably not putting any effort into it. If you don't put in any effort, then no it will never happen. She's creating the conditions for it never happening, by saying it will never happen.

Yes, clearly Hillary's lack of effort into implementing single payer health care is the reason why it won't happen. Nevermind that much more centrist and much more modest health care reform was barely able to pass despite single party dominance of all three elected parts of government with historic majorities.

I bet the Republican controlled House just can't wait to implement single payer if only Hillary would put in the work, hahaha.

You probably have a lot to learn from others as well.

I'm sure that I do!

 

[ivwshane]

Seriously, exactly what is the beef between a typical Bernie supporter and Hillary supporter? Something very real and something very tangible without name calling? Please don't say "Shillary is for wall street" etc. Can you list black and white differences like typical anti/pro crowd?

I've posted about this before but I'll repeat it for you. I have zero problems with either candidate winning. On one hand we have an ideological candidate who has a big picture agenda (one I can agree with in the whole), however he doesn't have a realistic path forward for being able to achieve that goal, the political climate in Washington simply won't allow it. On the other hand we have a pragmatist who has realistic goals and a track record of actually getting things done, albeit slowly and gradually.

They both have their pros and cons as to which path forward is best. I'm good with either outcome however, I am under no illusion that bernie will achieve his big goals and I'm under no illusion that hillarys plans will lead to big changes and I will continue to point out bullshit when I see it.

 

[ivwshane]

Are you saying it's not enough to know that Hillary accepts millions upon millions upon millions of dollars from the very same corporations which she says she's going to go after? Democrats hate Republicans because, among other things, they're in bed with corporations. Well what they hell do they think Hillary is doing under the sheets?

I'm sure if you've got something concrete about her being corrupted or paid for you will be posting it here. In the meantime we will simply note more of the same dishonest, innuendo, and conspiracy rhetoric that the repubs have been pushing for literally decades with zero to show for it.

The difference between dems and repubs is that despite both taking donations from wall Street only one party actually puts forth legislation that benefits wall Street and does so consistently.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Seriously, exactly what is the beef between a typical Bernie supporter and Hillary supporter? Something very real and something very tangible without name calling? Please don't say "Shillary is for wall street" etc. Can you list black and white differences like typical anti/pro crowd?

:Campaign finance:
Bernie supporters anti-citizens united. Corporations are not people.
Hillary supporters are willing to look the other way or support somebody who in principle may say one thing and do something in practice. SuperPAC $$$

:Health Care:
Bernie supporters want single payer universal healthcare like the rest of the so called "1st world" nations.
Hillary supporters might in principle want the same, they are willing to settle for what they can realistically get.

Lots more issues ... but the whole thing boils down to ... principle vs practical.

Bernie's whole platform is based on solid principles, finding "the best" or "most perfect" solutions.
Hillary is more or less about compromise and finding workable solutions.


She will sacrifice her principles to get stuff done.

 

[sontakke]

My questions were really for democrats to answer; the faux news viewers can take a hike. I am not interested in reading how she killed Vince Foster etc.

I work in software. I have to deliver viable products/solution even though personally it would be lot of fun to work on pie in the sky no deadline type of projects. As you said, "the best" or "most perfect" is NOT a solution at all if it is NOT "workable"!

And that is why I just DONT get the reason why there is such an animosity between Sanders and Clinton supporter!

 

[BoberFett]

My questions were really for democrats to answer; the faux news viewers can take a hike.

Fuck right off you useless turd.

 

[chess9]

Clinton vs Trump = Third Party Vote

Ditto for me, sorry to say. Hillary is so badly flawed I couldn't vote for her in good conscience. The Dems need some young blood. Too many old people with dead ideas. Anyway, four years of Hillary should be enough to scare the bejeezus out of the country....

 

[ivwshane]

Ditto for me, sorry to say. Hillary is so badly flawed I couldn't vote for her in good conscience. The Dems need some young blood. Too many old people with dead ideas. Anyway, four years of Hillary should be enough to scare the bejeezus out of the country....

What are her flaws? The ones the repubs have been manufacturing for decades? Or do you have something serious to base it on.

 

[chess9]

What are her flaws? The ones the repubs have been manufacturing for decades? Or do you have something serious to base it on.

Here is a start: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

Also, Professor Jonathan Turley has a legal blog in which he discusses why Hillary should be a bit more worried about the email scandal. Look here: https://jonathanturley.org/

But, really, these are merely a few of the ugly sores on the body politic of Hillary Clinton.

 

[Bowfinger]

Seriously, exactly what is the beef between a typical Bernie supporter and Hillary supporter? Something very real and something very tangible without name calling? Please don't say "Shillary is for wall street" etc. Can you list black and white differences like typical anti/pro crowd?

My issues with Clinton are that she is too hawkish, she is too close to Wall Street, and she is too timid in pushing dramatic improvements to the ACA. She also seems a bit fluid in her principles, often seeming to shift positions based on political expediency.

In contrast, Sanders seems much less inclined to drag us into gratuitous wars, he clearly wants to rein in Wall Street, and I like his vision for universal health care. He has also remained consistent in his principles. The down side is that his biggest promises are probably more expensive than he admits, and are not achievable in the near term due to Congressional/lobbyist opposition. He would, however, set the vision. That's one of the key responsibilities of a great leader, not just tidying up the status quo.

All said, I would be enthused to vote for Sanders. I am fine with voting for Clinton. (I might also be fine with voting for Kasich, but I need to take a closer look.)

 

[ivwshane]

Here is a start: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

Also, Professor Jonathan Turley has a legal blog in which he discusses why Hillary should be a bit more worried about the email scandal. Look here: https://jonathanturley.org/

But, really, these are merely a few of the ugly sores on the body politic of Hillary Clinton.

So it is baseless attacks and the fact that she's a horrible politician, exactly as I said.

 

[sontakke]

Faux newsers are not voting for Clinton or Sanders; I don't care as to what they think of the either two candidate

 

[Victorian Gray]

So it is baseless attacks and the fact that she's a horrible politician, exactly as I said.

Greenfield has never liked the Clintons.

 

[chess9]

Greenfield has never liked the Clintons.

You may be thinking of Daniel Greenfield.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Seriously, exactly what is the beef between a typical Bernie supporter and Hillary supporter? Something very real and something very tangible without name calling? Please don't say "Shillary is for wall street" etc. Can you list black and white differences like typical anti/pro crowd?

I've already said it somewhere, but there are a lot of very real and tangible differences between the two candidates.

Middle East Wars
HRC voted for Iraq wars and all but promised to keep the war machine going in the Middle East. She's a war hawk. BS on the other hand voted against Iraq war and made it very clear that he sees war as a very last resort. Given that congress pretty much delegated war making decisions to the president, the next president is essentially the only person determining if we go to war or not. I do not want HRC making that decision since she made her pro-war position very very clear.

NSA data collection
HRC voted for Patriot act and actively supports it. BS voted against it and when it still passed he introduced bills designed to neuter it. His bills/amendments were voted down, but he tried to strike it down. HRC supports government spying on American Citizens. This is unacceptable.

Weed
BS wants to legalize weed. HRC does not. I do not believe that we should be putting people away in prison for having an ounce of weed on them. As a tax payer I do not want to pay for that. Plus weed is no more dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. I'm not going to pretend that weed is completely harmless, you will be a dope if you smoke every day your entire life, but abusing alcohol and tobacco has similar consequences, the former wrecks your liver, the latter has high lung cancer risk, and even if you don't get cancer it still reduces your lung capacity so you may be struggling to breathe to the point of having to haul an oxygen tank with you. Weed should not be treated any differently from alcohol and tobacco.

Gun control
HRC is very much for gun control including "assault" weapons ban - i.e. a total joke. To be completely honest BS is a bit of a dark horse on gun control, he did vote at some point for assault weapons ban, but at the same time he did vote for legislation protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits. His has flip flopped on gun control quite a bit, but from what I understand his current position is he wants universal background checks and better mental health coverage. I'm OK with that. I'd rather have universal background checks and better mental screening than arbitrary bans just because your rifle has detachable magazine and a flash hider.

These are the big differences between the two candidates, and to be honest, these should be enough to sway any reasonable person into the Sanders camp.

On the rest of the issues I find them pretty similar, except for the fact that HRC pretty much flip flopped on every single one of them to mimic BS position. The most recent example is that during one of the debates a few weeks ago she said that "government shouldn't be profiting off of student loans" and BS rightfully smacked here because he's been saying that for months. HRC has been adopting BS policies. Now, you may believe her, I personally do not. I believe she's only saying it because it's politically advantageous for her. In either case, even if you do believe HRC is genuine, if you vote for her you are voting for more Middle East wars, more NSA surveillance, more Drug Wars, and draconian gun regulations. F that. Bernie all the way.

 

[chess9]

I've already said it somewhere, there is a lot of very real and tangible differences between the two.

Middle East Wars
HRC voted for Iraq wars and all but promised to keep the war machine going in the Middle East while on the campaign trail. She's a war hawk. BS on the other hand voted against Iraq war and made it very clear that he sees war as a very last resort. Given that congress pretty much delegated war making decisions on the president the next president is essentially the only person determining if we go to war or not. I do not want HRC making that decision since she made her pro-war position very very clear.

NSA data collection
HRC voted for Patriot act and actively supports it. BS voted against it and even introduced bills designed to neuter Patriot act. His bills/amendments were voted down, but he tried to strike it down. HRC supports government spying on American Citizens. This is unacceptable.

Weed
BS wants to legalize weed. HRC does not. I do not believe that we should be putting people away in prison for having an ounce of weed on them. As a tax payer I do not want to pay for that. Plus, face it, weed is no more dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. I'm not going to pretend that weed is completely harmless, you will be a dope if you smoke every day for your whole life, but abusing alcohol and tobacco has similar consequences, the former wrecks your liver, the latter has high lung cancer risk, plus even if you don't get cancer it still reduces your lung capacity so you may be hauling oxygen tank with you at some point in time. Weed should not be treated any differently from alcohol and tobacco.

Gun control
HRC is very much for gun control including "assault" weapons ban - i.e. a total joke. To be completely honest BS is a bit of a dark horse on gun control, he did vote at some point for assault weapons ban, but at the same time he did vote for legislation protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits. His has flip flopped on gun control quite a bit, but from what I understand his current position is he wants universal background checks and better mental health coverage. I'm ok with that.

These are the big differences between the two candidates, and to be honest, these should be enough to sway any reasonable person into the Sanders camp.

On the rest of the issues I find them pretty similar, except for the fact that HRC pretty much flip flopped on every single one of them to mimic BS position. The most recent example is that during one of the debates a few weeks ago she said that "government shouldn't be profiting off of student loans" and BS rightfully smacked here because he's been saying that for months. HRC has been adopting BS policies. Now, you may believe her, I do not. I believe she's only saying it because it's politically advantageous for her. In either case, even if you do believe HRC is genuine, if you vote for her you are voting for more Middle East wars, more NSA surveillance, more Drug Wars, and draconian gun regulations. F that. Bernie all the way.

Amen!