It it just me?

[bfdd]

Gary Johnson is running a great campaign and has put forth the most comprehensive plan on how to get us back on track out of any of the candidates. He has my vote and I'm a big supporter of living free.

Anyone seen that Obama video going after virgin voters etc? Someone should make a Gary Johnson video with a slightly older more "seasoned" lady talking about what she really wants in a man. Someone who doesn't play games and bullshit, but also has a big Johnson. Yeah that'd be money.

Don't listen to the people who keep saying "oh you're wasting your vote" "oh you're picking a loser" fuck them. Vote for what and who you believe in, vote for principles.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sometimes with our government, it's better when it is not getting things done. Usually the worst stuff happens when things are rolling right through congress and being rubber stamped by the president. This situation leads to ridiculous tax and spending policies without fail. I would much rather have someone principled gum up the works than have a well-connected, corrupt individual who gets stuff done. In other words, I'd rather have someone with good ideas get nothing done than someone with bad ideas accomplishing every one of them.

Yup, best th have the blind seize the wheel of the car when the sighted see the cliff. This is the endless duality of politics presented by the fact that liberals have rational vision and conservatives react to fear. The devil you know is better than any trip to heaven. The only thing is you should still be living in a cave. You have no perspective. Advocates of backward fearfulness like you just can't stop progress. You do not trust the species you belong to. You got hurt as a child and are nursing your wounds.

 

[PrinceofWands]

He's better than the main two candidates, but most of the third-party people are. He has a lot I agree with, some I don't.

 

[Agent11]

Yes.

No one likes a loser. Everyone wants to be a winner, even if that means voting for Kim Jong-un to send them a mortar. At least they didn't pick a loser.

That's the herd mentality of human nature being played out. You'd think a majority would want civil liberties and a balanced budget, but they'd rather vote for the professional liars than allow a fellow human being to be their leader. They'd rather die in North Korea than live free in America. This is because life is comfortable for us, so no one really gives a !@#$, after all what is the worst that could happen?

We don't deserve this country until we start voting with our conscience. Until we stop voting like it's our favorite sports team. Until we're willing to stand on principle instead of running away like cowards towards the strong man who'll 'save' us.

!@#$ being a winner, I'd rather live free or die hard. I'm 'throwing' my vote away, I encourage everyone to do the same!

Herd mentality. Right.

It isn't that they recognize that without any seats in congress such a president would be a lame duck.

All he would be able to do is beg and threaten with the veto, eventually such a president would be tempted to push executive power in order to be relevant and to attempt to accomplish something.

And there goes his ideals, and a new chapter in disturbing precedents is born for the supreme court to ruminate upon.

 

[Moonbeam]

Gary Johnson is running a great campaign and has put forth the most comprehensive plan on how to get us back on track out of any of the candidates. He has my vote and I'm a big supporter of living free.

Anyone seen that Obama video going after virgin voters etc? Someone should make a Gary Johnson video with a slightly older more "seasoned" lady talking about what she really wants in a man. Someone who doesn't play games and bullshit, but also has a big Johnson. Yeah that'd be money.

Don't listen to the people who keep saying "oh you're wasting your vote" "oh you're picking a loser" fuck them. Vote for what and who you believe in, vote for principles.

I am. I'm voting the lesser evil as is my moral duty. I don't have the mental vanity you call freedom to be a flake and waste my vote. I am not so self loathing that I can't get my hands dirty and know it. But I do know how you feel. I also have a fucking ivory tower imbecilic dreamer in me. He just isn't going to run the show for my totality.

 

[bfdd]

I am. I'm voting the lesser evil as is my moral duty. I don't have the mental vanity you call freedom to be a flake and waste my vote. I am not so self loathing that I can't get my hands dirty and know it. But I do know how you feel. I also have a fucking ivory tower imbecilic dreamer in me. He just isn't going to run the show for my totality.

I don't believe in the lesser of evils. Evil is evil, regardless. Just think about it this way Moonbeam. Your moral righteousness, your principles, your values, they mean nothing to me now. Why? Because you condone evil, you said so yourself. You're willing to subject us all to evil.

 

[dmcowen674]

It it just me?

Or does Gary Johnson actually make the most sense?

It's just you.

Perhaps another country would be better for you, like Italy?

 

[CycloWizard]

Yup, best th have the blind seize the wheel of the car when the sighted see the cliff. This is the endless duality of politics presented by the fact that liberals have rational vision and conservatives react to fear. The devil you know is better than any trip to heaven. The only thing is you should still be living in a cave. You have no perspective. Advocates of backward fearfulness like you just can't stop progress. You do not trust the species you belong to. You got hurt as a child and are nursing your wounds.

Progress is my job. I make the advancements that drive up the cost of healthcare to keep the zombies among us alive. I pay the taxes that allow you to gain use of my product all the while never being able to afford it myself. You, on the other hand, are the zombie in the driver's seat. You hope that your government-mandated guard rails can keep the car plowing forward rather than simply turning the lights on to see for yourself. You never stopping to question where the money for the gas that keeps the car moving will come from. Your gauge is already showing empty but the only thing you know to do is keep the pedal to the floor and hope for the best. I know it's not going to end well for you because I believe in the rationality of math, realizing that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I would happily let your drive continue into oblivion except that the shackles of society have hitched my trailer to your truck.

 

[bfdd]

Progress is my job. I make the advancements that drive up the cost of healthcare to keep the zombies among us alive. I pay the taxes that allow you to gain use of my product all the while never being able to afford it myself. You, on the other hand, are the zombie in the driver's seat. You hope that your government-mandated guard rails can keep the car plowing forward rather than simply turning the lights on to see for yourself. You never stopping to question where the money for the gas that keeps the car moving will come from. Your gauge is already showing empty but the only thing you know to do is keep the pedal to the floor and hope for the best. I know it's not going to end well for you because I believe in the rationality of math, realizing that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I would happily let your drive continue into oblivion except that the shackles of society have hitched my trailer to your truck.

+1

 

[mafia]

+1

+2 :thumbsup:

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

I don't believe in the lesser of evils. Evil is evil, regardless. Just think about it this way Moonbeam. Your moral righteousness, your principles, your values, they mean nothing to me now. Why? Because you condone evil, you said so yourself. You're willing to subject us all to evil.

Ignoring the fact that using the term "lesser evil" is a figure of speech...

Voting for Gary Johnson is a vote for principles all right, lunatic ones.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-candidate-who-would-destroy-the-economy.html

Johnson advocates severe near-term fiscal and monetary policy austerity. When we talked at (or rather, outside of) the Republican National Convention, he told me he would cut Medicare spending by 43 percent in the short term. He repeatedly insists that "we are in the midst of a monetary collapse" and says he favors returning the United States to a (deflationary) metallic currency standard. He says he would have opposed TARP and allowed systemically important banks to fail.

In other words, if Johnson had been president in 2008, he would have allowed the U.S. financial system to collapse and the country to fall into depression. And if he became president now, he would do his best to strangle the tepid recovery we are enjoying and turn it into another severe recession

 

[mafia]

Ignoring the fact that using the term "lesser evil" is a figure of speech...

Voting for Gary Johnson is a vote for principles all right, lunatic ones.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-candidate-who-would-destroy-the-economy.html

We will have a worse collapse. Bailing out only slowed it down. But there is no other way to fix the mess we are in.

 

[lotus503]

Obama and Romney are in the position they are in because of their campaign money and the media, end of story. There are far better options out there that will never be revealed because the vested money interests won't have it. The entire political system has been co-opted and corrupted. To think that the candidates they put in place would have any desire to actually improve things is wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst. Until something drastic happens, nothing will change.

/thread

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Since Gary Johnson believes in economic freedom for individuals he will be demonized and mischaracterized by the Dem's and their supporters and since he is pro-individual rights in regards to personal freedoms he will be ignored and if not vilified by the GOP and their supporters.

Nevermind the work he did in New Mexico as governor and how he left the state better off than it was when he was first elected. Nevermind his support of individual freedoms across the board which the so called "Social Justice" crowds rails against whenever they get a chance, never mind his fiscal restraint and ability to work with both Dem's and the GOP to balance a budget and leave surpluses rather than deficits behind, meanwhile preserving and promoting free market views purportedly espoused by those who pretend to call themselves fiscal conservatives.

None of his actual accomplishments as a governor will matter in the face of the partisanship of both parties and their lockstep voters who have an unerring ability blindly close ranks.

Basically he represents (along with any viable 3rd party candidate) the balanced views the American people want in politicians but which both parties and their power interests hate because this would dissolved the warped false political narratives they have built up for each other and themselves in order to appear as the "Only sound choice" for American voter in this country.

 

[Screech]

Or does Gary Johnson actually make the most sense? He combines the good *civil liberties* that democrats are known to like

Current records would say otherwise.....

and the *budget sense, low tax* that republicans are known for.

Any records over the last the last thirty years would say otherwise.....

But yes, I like him the most out of the current crop.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't believe in the lesser of evils. Evil is evil, regardless. Just think about it this way Moonbeam. Your moral righteousness, your principles, your values, they mean nothing to me now. Why? Because you condone evil, you said so yourself. You're willing to subject us all to evil.

It would take me only a few minutes of your time in a personal setting to convince you that there is evil and then there is evil. You are an idealistic dreamer who lives inside your head. You are very naive.

 

[tcG]

Obama and Romney are in the position they are in because of their campaign money and the media, end of story. There are far better options out there that will never be revealed because the vested money interests won't have it. The entire political system has been co-opted and corrupted. To think that the candidates they put in place would have any desire to actually improve things is wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst. Until something drastic happens, nothing will change.

Yet people still argue tooth and nail between the two parties as if there is actually a meaningful difference in policy between the two, and as if voting politics is some kind of means to change.

Isn't it a bit fishy that out of all the people who could be president, the only ones who have ever been elected have belonged to one of two political parties? There's an asymmetry there, and it's indicative of deep corruption and control by elites, not a healthy democracy with the will of the majority represented.

 

[Moonbeam]

Progress is my job. I make the advancements that drive up the cost of healthcare to keep the zombies among us alive. I pay the taxes that allow you to gain use of my product all the while never being able to afford it myself. You, on the other hand, are the zombie in the driver's seat. You hope that your government-mandated guard rails can keep the car plowing forward rather than simply turning the lights on to see for yourself. You never stopping to question where the money for the gas that keeps the car moving will come from. Your gauge is already showing empty but the only thing you know to do is keep the pedal to the floor and hope for the best. I know it's not going to end well for you because I believe in the rationality of math, realizing that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I would happily let your drive continue into oblivion except that the shackles of society have hitched my trailer to your truck.

I know. You are a good man which is why I do what I can to make you better for free. I have broad shoulders and you are no burden to me. But you are a judgmental asshole and I want to free you from that. It's not your aim I disagree with but your methodology. I would imagine I've paid more in taxes than you have and I don't want it wasted either. From what I can gather from the factual record the country prospers best under Democrats and only a Democrat or a Republican will win. I have also wasted many a vote on third party candidates and in all that time none of them ever won. If you're not a idiot you can wake up from your dreams and deal with what is in front of your face. When you talk to me you are talking to the visions that appear on the paper bag you're wearing. You are a program with an execute button. You need to break free. You understand that the conservative mind needs closure and certainty, that it is motivated by denying pain, that moral rectitude is requisite for the conservative ego......not a good place to seek truth from.

 

[Moonbeam]

Since Gary Johnson believes in economic freedom for individuals he will be demonized and mischaracterized by the Dem's and their supporters and since he is pro-individual rights in regards to personal freedoms he will be ignored and if not vilified by the GOP and their supporters.

Nevermind the work he did in New Mexico as governor and how he left the state better off than it was when he was first elected. Nevermind his support of individual freedoms across the board which the so called "Social Justice" crowds rails against whenever they get a chance, never mind his fiscal restraint and ability to work with both Dem's and the GOP to balance a budget and leave surpluses rather than deficits behind, meanwhile preserving and promoting free market views purportedly espoused by those who pretend to call themselves fiscal conservatives.

None of his actual accomplishments as a governor will matter in the face of the partisanship of both parties and their to lockstep voters who have an unerring ability blindly close ranks.

Basically he represents (along with any viable 3rd party candidate) the balanced views the American people want in a politicians but which both parties and their power interests hate because this would dissolved the warped false political narratives they have built up for each other and themselves in order to appear as the "Only sound choice" for American voter in this country.

Blah blah blah. Get him to 30% in the polls. I don't pay him the slightest mind because he has no chance. It's a waste of time. I have nothing against his stand on things because I have no need to. He could be God but he doesn't have a chance. And while your at it, call a constitutional convention and get money and corporations out of politics. Get publicly financed campaigns that include third parties in the debates. Get off your ass and get busy. You are punching at shadows and wallowing in grief. Do something or shut the fuck up.

 

[tcG]

^ Doing all those proactive things would be to do actions that give tacit consent to having aspects of my life ruled by a system that is wrong.

The only consistent, logical, moral thing to do in the face of an oppressive system is to do your best to inform people about how bad it is through dialogue and debate. As soon as you become actively involved in voting politics the implication is that you are okay with the totally overarching, centralized system that it has become.

Exhorting people who are complaining about corruption in the system to become active in the political process is good-looking rhetoric, but that's about it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yet people still argue tooth and nail between the two parties as if there is actually a meaningful difference in policy between the two, and as if voting politics is some kind of means to change.

Isn't it a bit fishy that out of all the people who could be president, the only ones who have ever been elected have belonged to one of two political parties? There's an asymmetry there, and it's indicative of deep corruption and control by elites, not a healthy democracy with the will of the majority represented.

The will of the people is channeled into two pieces of shit, one a steaming pile of it and the other a huge steaming pile. Now you run along like a little child and vote for Micky Mouse. No meaningful difference is an opinion of the brain dead. The differences are huge, one massively more shitty than the other but not huge enough. And because they don't live up to your imbecilic impossible standards you will waste your vote. Idiot! But don't worry, others will carry the shit for you. You get to exercise your individual rights. But don't forget that with great freedom comes great responsibility. You should spend some time figuring out what that might mean.

And pay no attention to me calling you an idiot. It's just my way of concentrating your attention.

 

[mafia]

The will of the people is channeled into two pieces of shit, one a steaming pile of it and the other a huge steaming pile. Now you run along like a little child and vote for Micky Mouse. No meaningful difference is an opinion of the brain dead. The differences are huge, one massively more shitty than the other but not huge enough. And because they don't live up to your imbecilic impossible standards you will waste your vote. Idiot! But don't worry, others will carry the shit for you. You get to exercise your individual rights. But don't forget that with great freedom comes great responsibility. You should spend some time figuring out what that might mean.

And pay no attention to me calling you an idiot. It's just my way of concentrating your attention.

Wasting your vote is voting for someone you don't believe in. We don't agree with the current candidates, so we vote for the one we agree with most. It's a simple fact. If more people used their BRAINS to vote, maybe other candidates would have a better chance at winning. But instead, we have brain dead voters like you which keep this shit at a two party system.

 

[Moonbeam]

Wasting your vote is voting for someone you don't believe in. We don't agree with the current candidates, so we vote for the one we agree with most. It's a simple fact. If more people used their BRAINS to vote, maybe other candidates would have a better chance at winning. But instead, we have brain dead voters like you which keep this shit at a two party system.

'Maybe and if' are words fools have whispered many times in my ear. Get off your ass and make maybe and if come to pass. If granny had whiskers she'd be Grampa. You're in airy fairy land with your head you know where. Go have a temper tantrum about all the stupid folk who won't vote third party. Kick and scream and go tell Mommy you need a cookie. Grow up you immature ass. Nobody is going to vote third party till a third party shows it has a chance. And because they can't it's nobody's fault but their own. Jesus started in a barn. Get a fucking message and get it out.

 

[Agent11]

Why should some one vote for a candidate who's party doesn't even have any congressmen?

What are you buying into? Ideas? Newsflash, without a voting block in the legislature you don't get jack shit done, your ideas will not be in any bills. And unless you have a super majority you are at the whim of the other parties allowing your legislation through.

So why should anyone vote for a party that hasn't got the shit together enough to get any congressmen and senators elected?

The problem is your 'purity of thought'. If the libertarians, greens etc joined forces with all the other little parties and worked out some core principles they could agree on they would be able to ACTUALLY BE RELEVANT.

Good luck on that though, and as long as their vision of america is so narrow so will be their support.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Why should some one vote for a candidate who's party doesn't even have any congressmen?

What are you buying into? Ideas? Newsflash, without a voting block in the legislature you don't get jack shit done, your ideas will not be in any bills. And unless you have a super majority you are at the whim of the other parties allowing your legislation through.

So why should anyone vote for a party that hasn't got the shit together enough to get any congressmen and senators elected?

The problem is your 'purity of thought'. If the libertarians, greens etc joined forces with all the other little parties and worked out some core principles they could agree on they would be able to ACTUALLY BE RELEVANT.

Good luck on that though, and as long as their vision of america is so narrow so will be their support.

Then they'd be no better than Democrats or Republicans...a big party that didn't accurately represent much of anybody.

The core problem is that our parties are haphazard, and have random voting issues. What we need (other than no parties, which is much more difficult to achieve) is designed parties. We need a firm, theoretical basis underlying the parties themselves, carefully balanced.

Basically a 3-axis plotter is my preference for a starting point. This provides 8 unique, and one moderated party with logical foundations into which people can divide themselves based upon the major, always-related parts of any issue (such as scope or economic basis).