It it reasonable to assume many used GPU's on the market were used for mining?

[wchang99]

I'm trying to get a used GPU, and it occurred to me that outside of single cards sold by individuals who used them for personal gaming rigs, a lot of used GPU's sold where the seller has many multiples of each model might have come from mining rigs rather than from office computers.

It might be less obvious if the card isn't a GTX 1060, 1070 or 1080, but even something like a GTX 750 probably wouldn't have been used in an office computer and still could have mining utility? Aliexpress has used GPU's like this, where a single seller is selling each model by the dozens. Where do these GPU's come from -- do you think it's more likely they came from mining rigs (and have the wear & tear on them) rather than from office computers?

(Not talking about the single models sold en masse which are obviously fakes with the cheesy picture, flashed BIOS and too-good-to-be true prices, but rather ones that are also sold en masse that look like legit cards which I'm just wondering where they were sourced from.)

Thanks.

 

[UsandThem]

It's tough to say. They could be trade-ins, refurbs, or they could be from a miner.

You can always look at a place like the 'for sale' forum here, where most established traders are upfront if their cards were used for mining.

As far if cards used for gaming instead of mining being in better condition, that depends. I do Folding@Home with my GTX 1070, and I have a quality PSU and I keep the card cool (it never goes over 60c). Will it die quicker than someone who games with theirs? Maybe, maybe not. @Markfw runs his cards 24/7 folding, and has for a while. I don't recall him having his cards dying quickly.

 

[Markfw]

If you bypass the fan profile, and set the card to run the fans at about 80% they run much cooler. I had MSI and gigabyte cards with fans that failed. I stick to EVGA now, as I think their fans are better quality.

Bottom line ? its more about how you take care of them than anything.

 

[UsandThem]

If you bypass the fan profile, and set the card to run the fans at about 80% they run much cooler. I had MSI and gigabyte cards with fans that failed. I stick to EVGA now, as I think their fans are better quality.

Bottom line ? its more about how you take care of them than anything.

I'm starting to think that about MSI cards. I have a MSI GTX 1060 that has worked perfectly for 18 months. In November I bought a MSI RX 580 and only had it for under a month (not folded with), and the fan bearing wore out and started clicking. I sent it back, and got a MSI GTX 1070. Just today, I started hearing similar sounds that the RX 580 card made when the bearing started to go bad. If this turns out to be the case, MSI will drop down my reliability list for sure.

 

[bystander36]

I'm curious as to why a miner would sell a current card to begin with, unless they only mined with it a short time and came to realize it wasn't worth it.

 

[Lordhumungus]

I feel like the cards that are coming up for sale now are mostly either people who are trying to capitalize on the crazy prices we are seeing or people who haphazardly tried mining but weren’t in it for the long haul (due to not really understanding it, lack of dedication, getting scared, or some combo of all 3).

Ultimately I think this is just a trickle and when next gen cards hit we will see a tsunami.

It does again bring up something I mentioned in another thread, however. I’m interesred to see how it plays out by region. Since we know a lot of the mega farms are in China, I do wonder if large quantities of those cards will be spread to other territories on the cheap or if they wil stay more or less localized. If the former it could have an interesting side effect of introducing US/EU to lesser known or even otherwise unavailable brands/models and if the latter, the market may not end up as flooded as would otherwise seem probable.

 

[Markfw]

Well, I sold six cards in the last month. Why ? to upgrade the slowest/least efficient cards in my F@H fleet. All the 980 and 980TI's are gone, and all the 1070's.

If a miner was trying to upgrade, he might do the same. But I hate miners.....

 

[Lordhumungus]

I’m not really up to date on the efficiencies needed for mining. Does it make sense for someone mining at a large scale to upgrade from say 9xx series cards to something newer?

Seems like they would be better served always just adding additional hardware until the old hardware basically makes $0 due to difficulty increases. I guess space and heat come at a premium, but otherwise?

Edit: @Markfw I’ve seen in passing you have many rigs, but never exactly how many, care to indulge me? I guess a better or at least more relevant to the topic question is how many video cards do you have in active use?

 

[Markfw]

I’m not really up to date on the efficiencies needed for mining. Does it make sense for someone mining at a large scale to upgrade from say 9xx series cards to something newer?

Seems like they would be better served always just adding additional hardware until the old hardware basically makes $0 due to difficulty increases. I guess space and heat come at a premium, but otherwise?

Edit: @Markfw I’ve seen in passing you have many rigs, but never exactly how many, care to indulge me? I guess a better or at least more relevant to the topic question is how many video cards do you have in active use?

Currently I have 7 1080TI's, 2 1080's, and 2 1070TI's, I sold everything else. They all are folding 24/7. I have 6 E5-2683 Zeons (28 threads for 169 threads total) 3 Threadrippers (96 threads total) and 2 Ryzen (32 threads total) and a couple of 8 thread boxes for a total of 304 threads crunching WCG on most of the threads (some CPU's reserved for the video cards)

So 11 cards (crunching) and 13 boxes

And if I didn;t say it, I sold the old stuff as inefficient.

 

[wchang99]

Thanks UsandThem, for the context, and also for pointing out the 'for sale' section here (which I knew of, but forgot about).

And thanks all, for the comments and conversation here. Lordhumungus's mentioning of a lot of mega farms in China got me looking into that, and I think the listing at Aliexpress has signs of that (Chinese seller, large quantities of same models), so I think I will instead try to buy from an individual or buy new in this case (system for a family member, so want reliability and longevity), and be more adventurous for my own system.

Thanks UsandThem and Markfw for your point that it all depends on how the owner takes care of their hardware (cooling, and PSU quality). As far as cards possibly from mega farms in China go, I don't know yet what to expect in terms of how the farms might maintain their stuff or be incentivized to do so, so rather than try to figure that out, for the system that needs reliability such as my family's, I'll probably go for the better known individual or new part.

Lordhumungus: yes, there are a few lesser-known names which I saw on Aliexpress, which you might already know of - Onda, Graphicsplayer, Veineda.

Thanks again all.

 

[UsandThem]

I'm starting to think that about MSI cards. I have a MSI GTX 1060 that has worked perfectly for 18 months. In November I bought a MSI RX 580 and only had it for under a month (not folded with), and the fan bearing wore out and started clicking. I sent it back, and got a MSI GTX 1070. Just today, I started hearing similar sounds that the RX 580 card made when the bearing started to go bad. If this turns out to be the case, MSI will drop down my reliability list for sure.

Well this sucks. I confirmed today the noise is a fan bearing on my GTX 1070 MSI card. So that makes two cards from them in a row that started doing it within 30 days or so. They must have gotten a bad shipment, or switched to a lower quality supplier for their fans because of current GPU demand. They definitely will not be the brand of video card I buy in the future. I can't really RMA it right now either because I am sure they have none left to replace it with, and I will likely be without it for some time.

 

[Shamrock]

Now you have me worried. I have a MSI RX 580 8GB.

 

[UsandThem]

Now you have me worried. I have a MSI RX 580 8GB.

That was the first one I bought where the bearing went out. If you start to hear a low, random clicking noise that goes away pretty quickly at first, be prepared. It gets worse until it is a non-stop click when the fan spins. Really, really sucks.

 

[Markfw]

Well this sucks. I confirmed today the noise is a fan bearing on my GTX 1070 MSI card. So that makes two cards from them in a row that started doing it within 30 days or so. They must have gotten a bad shipment, or switched to a lower quality supplier for their fans because of current GPU demand. They definitely will not be the brand of video card I buy in the future. I can't really RMA it right now either because I am sure they have none left to replace it with, and I will likely be without it for some time.

Well, I think I told you that every MSI and gigabyte card I ever had, the fans went bad quickly, and I will never buy another.

 

[UsandThem]

Well, I think I told you that every MSI and gigabyte card I ever had, the fans went bad quickly, and I will never buy another.

My GTX 1060 card from MSI I bought last year works great to this day. For two fan bearings to go bad so quickly leads me to believe they are either using different suppliers, or got a bad shipment. Kind of like the crappy motherboard capacitor issue back in the 2000s.

Regardless it sucks no matter what the reason is. It double sucks because cards are almost impossible to find right now. I will remember it the next time I go to buy a card for sure.

 

[Feld]

I have a pair of MSI Gaming 390 cards that have been mining 24/7 for 2 years, and a Gaming 1060 that has been mining for 1 year. They run cool and quiet, and the fans have had zero issues. I've had the fans completely die on two Sapphire cards (both pre-owned though, so no telling what the previous owners subjected them to), and Gigabyte cards with fans that have gotten noisy but never quit working.

 

[Headfoot]

When I buy used I just assume worst case scenario: both gamed on at very high overclocks and voltages, as well as mined on in the spare time. I would only buy models with good fans, which isnt always easy to research

 

[IntelUser2000]

They can run for a long time if not pushed to the maximum. I'm talking 10MHz short of bluescreens, while dual mining. The latter is particularly hard for long term operation. Dual mining increases power consumption too, all for a mere 10% gain. Increased power consumption complicates PSU choices.

XFX and Sapphire Nitro cards are good because of replaceable fans. Though, every few months I clean the fans out on all cards so dust doesn't accumulate too much. Own, or have owned most of the AMD-based vendor cards. Yea, its like a rainbow.

If I were to sell them, I would be honest about how it was used for, and sell it for cheaper. I'd even consider money back because I usually do local deals.

 

[NTMBK]

Even if they're not miner cards, gamers do plenty of overclocking to squeeze out extra performance. Especially gamers who flip their cards every 6-12 months because they want maximum performance. And those are the kind of people who don't care much about long term stability either, so it may not have been a particularly stable or safe overclock.

EDIT: Basically- what do you value more, a $40 discount from buying used, or the dozens of hours you might end up spending debugging a dodgy second hand card? Just buy new, and save yourself the pain.

 

[Markfw]

Even if they're not miner cards, gamers do plenty of overclocking to squeeze out extra performance. Especially gamers who flip their cards every 6-12 months because they want maximum performance. And those are the kind of people who don't care much about long term stability either, so it may not have been a particularly stable or safe overclock.

EDIT: Basically- what do you value more, a $40 discount from buying used, or the dozens of hours you might end up spending debugging a dodgy second hand card? Just buy new, and save yourself the pain.

That might have been the case before, but the miners inflating the prices, its more like $200 more. $1400 new and $1200 used.

 

[NTMBK]

That might have been the case before, but the miners inflating the prices, its more like $200 more. $1400 new and $1200 used.

So now it's a $1200 gamble. Awesome.

 

[Markfw]

Well, I guess I made your point for you. If you are going to gamble, why not spend $200 more for new.

 

[Headfoot]

I agree, at that level of $$ outlay I would want some basic warranty coverage

 

[wchang99]

I'm buying much more at the low end, so I can tolerate some risk. I ended up getting a used GTX 750, for $70 (which doesn't seem worth the fuss of worrying about it compared with $1200, now that you mention it). This is for my own system (Ryzen 7 for CPU rendering with no need for a good GPU). With a GTX 750, I figure it might less likely have been overclocked or used in mining. It occured to me after purchasing and reading of people's problems with GPU fans that a new GT 1030 at $85 might've been smarter, but for $70 I can live with my choice.

For my family member's system I'm using a Ryzen 2400G APU to avoid the GPU problem and use only new parts (previously it was going to be a Ryzen 7 CPU and used GPU).

Thanks again to all.