It makes no sense to buy foreign cars

[Doppel]

You are lumping everyone in to little containers that fit neatly in your ideology.

It's the internet; I'm allowed to.

You don't have to drive like an idiot to enjoy something like a Mustang GT in your example.

You do if your balls dropped. Find a guy who owns a really fast car and is content idling along within the speed limit and there's a guy who needs a script for testosterone.

The chick is Pippa Middleton

 

[jagec]

So what do you guys think of this?

The Dodge Dart.

I myself am just getting past the Toyota/Honda bias to take a look at Ford. Still haven't really given Chrysler or GM a good look. The Dart though is new for 2013 and is a product of the Fia merger. Looks very interesting.

I've watched the ads and seen a couple in person, and it DOES look interesting. I'm not in the market right now, but if I was I'd give it a good look. Pretty sharp looking, good reviews, decent price.

You do if your balls dropped. Find a guy who owns a really fast car and is content idling along within the speed limit and there's a guy who needs a script for testosterone.

Well...yeah, but it's still not nice to call attention to it.

 

[pandemonium]

Find a guy who owns a really fast car and is content idling along within the speed limit and there's a guy who needs a script for testosterone.

You can only be immature and get so many tickets for so long before you start to realize that you can't run around like a racer-boy everywhere you drive, all of the time.

Learning how to manage your power and use it appropriately is the mark of a great driver [man]. There's nothing I hate more than someone who needs to show off at every chance they get. That, is poseur, more than anything else to me. No wait, I was wrong. Someone that likes to show off and has a bunch of decals and cheap body-kit, underglow, giant wing, etcetera.

And back on-topic...

I always thought the Dart was a good move for Dodge and wondered why it never sold that well. Then I realized...because with an American moniker, people want American muscle (e.g. big torque and HP ratings from a V6+). The Dart is essentially the lightweight platform that Japanese makers have been doing (successfully) for the last however many years and Dodge decided to go ahead and do it too. The problem is the community that buys American doesn't want efficiency. They want power first and foremost. Anything else is simply a side-effect.

All things aside, if I were in the market for a new vehicle, the Dart would probably be on my checklist. Specificaly, the Fiat Viaggio (based on the Dart) if it were coming to American shores. A sporty crossover with a hatchback (I just love the functionality of hatches!)? That's just amazing to me and a big win.

 

[hans007]

I am really surprised how poorly the dart sells. Granted I live in LA which is not exactly land of dodges. But in that class it seems like a standout. Nicer interior . Good looking. A bit larger than competitors and with a modern transmission and engine. The corolla for example has a relatively ancient power train and it sells easily. I guess dodge needs time to rebuild its reputation

 

[nerp]

It's the fact I have a personality and some gusto in the way I drive that has given me this view of cars. My current commuter is an econobox and I drive faster than 99% of the people on the road. My last car did 0-60 in the low 6's and I managed to get rid of it before getting into serious trouble. A modern sports sedan cannot be exercised legally on the roads anywhere close to its true capabilities, not even close. The same can be said of pretty much any vehicle on the road now. Even a typical minivan is doing 0-60 in the 7's, and can go around corners above the speed limit. And a sports car like a Corvette, forget it, they are show pieces to virtually all their owners.

A guy who owns a fast car and takes it to the track isn't a poseur. He knows what his car can do and does it. A guy who's driving a Mustang GT around and actually drives legally all the time is a poseur. He wants to give off the bad ass impression, but he's not the real deal.

Or, some of us need a 4-door sedan with good crash ratings and plenty of room for a growing family. Just so happens it has 300+ HP. There are powerful RWD sedans that fit the bill for a family sedan. Call me a poseur if you want. If that means having a safe car with 33 mpg on the highway and the ability to get around dangerous drivers and merge onto the highway effortlessly, I don't mind being a poseur.

 

[nerp]

I am really surprised how poorly the dart sells. Granted I live in LA which is not exactly land of dodges. But in that class it seems like a standout. Nicer interior . Good looking. A bit larger than competitors and with a modern transmission and engine. The corolla for example has a relatively ancient power train and it sells easily. I guess dodge needs time to rebuild its reputation

Give it a few years. Chrysler is making nice profits and the product line is dramatically improved. With people like me who used to be haters now singing praises, it won't be that long.

 

[kitatech]

Give it a few years. Chrysler is making nice profits and the product line is dramatically improved. With people like me who used to be haters now singing praises, it won't be that long.

Whether true or not, dependability/reliability and fit and finish are the basis of the reputation for transportation devices/appliances made BY foreign manufacturers...note I said BY manufacturers not IN foreign countries (though some will argue for cars made IN those countries...well, in SOME of those countries).

...the majority of cars on the road are not ultimate driving machines, but rather cars driven unenthusiastically for a decade and for more than 100k miles by those who want minimal maintenance...when US cars seem smooth and tight in such hands then US cars reputation will engender more sales from a reputation rivaling that of imports.

 

[evident]

you want quality and want to buy american? buy honda. even if some models are not made here, they are made in japan, and that's more than fine by me

 

[heymrdj]

I drive a white dodge dart limited with every option other than the turbo engine and the gunmetal wheels. Feel free to ask me any questions about it, or if you want pictures or something. Freaking love this car, almost 5.5k miles since I picked it up mid January.

 

[nerp]

I drive a white dodge dart limited with every option other than the turbo engine and the gunmetal wheels. Feel free to ask me any questions about it, or if you want pictures or something. Freaking love this car, almost 5.5k miles since I picked it up mid January.

Typical refrain from people buying new Chrysler products. As I've been saying. . .

 

[Zenmervolt]

Typical refrain from people buying new Chrysler products. As I've been saying. . .

4 months of ownership is nowhere near enough to make any sort of reliability or quality judgment. If the car is still great after 5 years, then we've got something.

I'm not saying Chryslers are junk, just that talking about the "reliability" of cars that are only a couple years old at most is rather pointless. These days a company would have to actively be trying to make junk for significant numbers of cars to have problems in the first couple of years after purchase.

ZV

 

[desura]

I drive a white dodge dart limited with every option other than the turbo engine and the gunmetal wheels. Feel free to ask me any questions about it, or if you want pictures or something. Freaking love this car, almost 5.5k miles since I picked it up mid January.

Well, uh, I dunno, just expound on it compared to other cars in its class like the Focus, Civic, or Corolla.

 

[heymrdj]

Well, uh, I dunno, just expound on it compared to other cars in its class like the Focus, Civic, or Corolla.

Ok I believe it was stated earlier in this thread that I also had a Civic EX-L.

Dart is way quieter, the insulation and ride quality is just on a whole notha level with the dart. SOmething that even my car agnostic girlfriend sees. Dart is more peppy, and the 6 speed DSG in it just seems to work better compared to the archaic 5 speed in the civic. Civic went in for 4 dealer repairs since I got it Aug. of last year, Dart has been in for 1 (not a repair technically, a new headunit update that gave it the newer maps as well as fixed some bluetooth pairing issues). The screens (the limiteds have a screen in the dash instead of a speedo that is fully customizable) are just unlike anything other manufactures in this class. Once you use the 8.4N system of the Dart, 200, and 300 (the 300 having a more powerful 8.4N system), you wonder why it's not standard equipment in any car. The Civic EX-L's nav system is laughable at best and looks like a cheap tom tom. The leather quality and the two tone stitching in the dart are other notable qualities. There's just a lot of fit and finish things that the dart has that the civic didn't. The LED lit door pockets, floorboards, the red glow around the entire dashboard, even the rear pockets and floorboards are lit. At night the thing is just a pleasure to drive around town, and the manumatic can be a bit of beastly fun when cruising. The stock exhaust has an amazing growl (though the gf doesn't like it, she would prefer it quite and appliance like the civic).

To the civic's credit I have to give it a bit of a nod on space (seems a little less cramped) and on history (obviously the same engine/tranny combo has been thoroughly tested compared to the all new drive trains being used by ford, dodge, chrysler, and gm). To that note I still have to ask why hasn't honda rolled a DSG yet.

To the Focus, I've only tested hatchbacks. To be honest? I like it over the dart, but only fully loaded. I think the fit and finish was a notch up, there feels like a bit more power there, and I just think they are smexy . Problem is the only way (IMHO) to get them is with the Titanium package. But a loaded titanium with moonroof is about 29k, vs. 22k for the loaded dart with moonroof and HID's .

 

[ThatsABigOne]

you want quality and want to buy american? buy honda. even if some models are not made here, they are made in japan, and that's more than fine by me

Exactly this. My 2013 Accord Sport is 100% american.

 

[SlitheryDee]

It's the fact I have a personality and some gusto in the way I drive that has given me this view of cars. My current commuter is an econobox and I drive faster than 99% of the people on the road. My last car did 0-60 in the low 6's and I managed to get rid of it before getting into serious trouble. A modern sports sedan cannot be exercised legally on the roads anywhere close to its true capabilities, not even close. The same can be said of pretty much any vehicle on the road now. Even a typical minivan is doing 0-60 in the 7's, and can go around corners above the speed limit. And a sports car like a Corvette, forget it, they are show pieces to virtually all their owners.

A guy who owns a fast car and takes it to the track isn't a poseur. He knows what his car can do and does it. A guy who's driving a Mustang GT around and actually drives legally all the time is a poseur. He wants to give off the bad ass impression, but he's not the real deal.

Hold on now. I drive a tiny 138 HP Aveo. It easily does the speed limit and serves me just fine for my daily driving. However, I've NEVER fooled myself into thinking that more power wouldn't make my drive more pleasurable. Even if I never come close to breaking the speed limit, more responsiveness is always going to be better.

People have a tendency to think that whatever they're doing right now is the end-all be-all best way things can be done. You're driving a small car without much horsepower, so you think small cars without much horsepower are the best way to go. I've made similar assumptions myself about whatever it was I was doing at one time or another. Eventually I found myself changing my mind about the supposedly superior notion I had enough times to notice what I was doing. You should notice it too, especially when you fixate on the idea that going over the speed limit is the only justification for having a more powerful engine. Clearly that's not the case. More power is beneficial at any speed, particularly in the range from 0 to whatever the speed limit is.

 

[Doppel]

Hold on now. I drive a tiny 138 HP Aveo. It easily does the speed limit and serves me just fine for my daily driving. However, I've NEVER fooled myself into thinking that more power wouldn't make my drive more pleasurable. Even if I never come close to breaking the speed limit, more responsiveness is always going to be better.

People have a tendency to think that whatever they're doing right now is the end-all be-all best way things can be done. You're driving a small car without much horsepower, so you think small cars without much horsepower are the best way to go. I've made similar assumptions myself about whatever it was I was doing at one time or another. Eventually I found myself changing my mind about the supposedly superior notion I had enough times to notice what I was doing. You should notice it too, especially when you fixate on the idea that going over the speed limit is the only justification for having a more powerful engine. Clearly that's not the case. More power is beneficial at any speed, particularly in the range from 0 to whatever the speed limit is.

I get some of this. If I could swap my car today with a V8 monster (and it cost the same) I would. So much of these cars feel like having an incredibly hot girlfriend who only lets you hold her hands, though, at least on public streets.

 

[desura]

Ok I believe it was stated earlier in this thread that I also had a Civic EX-L.

Dart is way quieter, the insulation and ride quality is just on a whole notha level with the dart. SOmething that even my car agnostic girlfriend sees. Dart is more peppy, and the 6 speed DSG in it just seems to work better compared to the archaic 5 speed in the civic. Civic went in for 4 dealer repairs since I got it Aug. of last year, Dart has been in for 1 (not a repair technically, a new headunit update that gave it the newer maps as well as fixed some bluetooth pairing issues). The screens (the limiteds have a screen in the dash instead of a speedo that is fully customizable) are just unlike anything other manufactures in this class. Once you use the 8.4N system of the Dart, 200, and 300 (the 300 having a more powerful 8.4N system), you wonder why it's not standard equipment in any car. The Civic EX-L's nav system is laughable at best and looks like a cheap tom tom. The leather quality and the two tone stitching in the dart are other notable qualities. There's just a lot of fit and finish things that the dart has that the civic didn't. The LED lit door pockets, floorboards, the red glow around the entire dashboard, even the rear pockets and floorboards are lit. At night the thing is just a pleasure to drive around town, and the manumatic can be a bit of beastly fun when cruising. The stock exhaust has an amazing growl (though the gf doesn't like it, she would prefer it quite and appliance like the civic).

To the civic's credit I have to give it a bit of a nod on space (seems a little less cramped) and on history (obviously the same engine/tranny combo has been thoroughly tested compared to the all new drive trains being used by ford, dodge, chrysler, and gm). To that note I still have to ask why hasn't honda rolled a DSG yet.

To the Focus, I've only tested hatchbacks. To be honest? I like it over the dart, but only fully loaded. I think the fit and finish was a notch up, there feels like a bit more power there, and I just think they are smexy . Problem is the only way (IMHO) to get them is with the Titanium package. But a loaded titanium with moonroof is about 29k, vs. 22k for the loaded dart with moonroof and HID's .

Weird hearing you praise the Dart so effusely, then saying that you think the Focus is even better.

I think we need some pics.

 

[nerp]

4 months of ownership is nowhere near enough to make any sort of reliability or quality judgment. If the car is still great after 5 years, then we've got something.

I'm not saying Chryslers are junk, just that talking about the "reliability" of cars that are only a couple years old at most is rather pointless. These days a company would have to actively be trying to make junk for significant numbers of cars to have problems in the first couple of years after purchase.

ZV

Oh, that is understood. I do look forward to seeing how all these cars hold up in a few years. But remember that even a brand new Chrysler product a few years ago would feel cheapy inside and out and typically had more problems off the lot than they do today. Chrysler vehicles are doing great with new owner satisfaction, the Charger, for example, is the car with the highest owner scores and everywhere you look, new owners say things like "I LOVE this car, best car I've ever owned, etc) and you're not going to get that kind of passion and adulation out of people who buy appliance cars or other "reliable" brands. I liked my Yaris for a variety of reasons, but I fucking LOVE my Charger. It takes a lot to produce cars that make people profusely sing love for them.

 

[heymrdj]

Weird hearing you praise the Dart so effusely, then saying that you think the Focus is even better.

I think we need some pics.

When I get the chance here (hopefully tonight) I'll get some pics up.

The reason I liked the focus is a bit biased. I prefer Hatch Backs (which the gf hates with a passion because she thinks they look like station wagons. :hmm:..) I like the utility of them. I think the dart could become a smexy HB, but they don't make one. Besides that I do think the focus titanium is on another level. But it's also on another price bracket. MSRP they nearly break 30k fully loaded, and after taxes and all they do. They are selling so well dealers aren't really willing to let go for much less. The dart was easy to get for 22 fully loaded, and if I had really felt like haggling more with them I probably could have gotten the turbo for just slightly more said and done.

I think the only glaring dislike I have with the car is power band. 0-15 is really really slow (perceivable, anyways), like the car just doesn't have a tall enough 1st gear. After that it rockets (getting to about 2500RPM or so). The turbo fixed this, the 1.4 turbo grunts really low end and maybe the first 0-5 is slow and that baby jets after that. But the gf thought the car was loud enough as is and didn't want the extra noise of the turbo model...:awe:

All said it's only a lease, I'll have plenty of opportunity to change to something else later. :biggrin: I'm really interested in the new GT coming out. 184hp 2.4L . nnnnaaarrrrgggg /nigel

 

[Zenmervolt]

Oh, that is understood. I do look forward to seeing how all these cars hold up in a few years. But remember that even a brand new Chrysler product a few years ago would feel cheapy inside and out and typically had more problems off the lot than they do today. Chrysler vehicles are doing great with new owner satisfaction, the Charger, for example, is the car with the highest owner scores and everywhere you look, new owners say things like "I LOVE this car, best car I've ever owned, etc) and you're not going to get that kind of passion and adulation out of people who buy appliance cars or other "reliable" brands. I liked my Yaris for a variety of reasons, but I fucking LOVE my Charger. It takes a lot to produce cars that make people profusely sing love for them.

Fair. But it's worth noting that loving a car and having that car be reliable are also different things.

For example, I'd all but kill to be able to keep my 951. I'd sell every other vehicle I own before the 951. But I've spent over $25,000 on repairs in the 8 years I've owned it. Granted, a lot of that is because it's closing in on 30 years old and is running 15 PSI of boost (stock is slightly less than 11 PSI) with ~175,000 miles on it, but cars that inspire passion tend to get more of a pass in terms of reliability. We're often willing to put up with more crap from cars we love.

Cars are sort of like people that way.

ZV

 

[nerp]

Oh yeah, you're right on that. Or willing to get quite dirty fixing those little things you'd overlook in a car you hate.

 

[Vdubchaos]

There is no such a thing as foreign or domestic anymore.

Factories have become nothing else but assembly lines. Parts are made all over the world.

The country of origin the company is registered in makes no difference.

You are right about the quality of the product though OP, the gaps have been completely closed and the differences are no longer worthy of a premium price (to me anyways) and it's surprising people still pay the premium.

I also noticed that the designs/materials on lower end cars are at times better than the ones that cost premium. So the whole "you get what you pay for" is out the window now.

Oh, that is understood. I do look forward to seeing how all these cars hold up in a few years. But remember that even a brand new Chrysler product a few years ago would feel cheapy inside and out and typically had more problems off the lot than they do today. Chrysler vehicles are doing great with new owner satisfaction, the Charger, for example, is the car with the highest owner scores and everywhere you look, new owners say things like "I LOVE this car, best car I've ever owned, etc) and you're not going to get that kind of passion and adulation out of people who buy appliance cars or other "reliable" brands. I liked my Yaris for a variety of reasons, but I fucking LOVE my Charger. It takes a lot to produce cars that make people profusely sing love for them.

Remember one thing. Quality matters in the long run (as in 5-10 years +). Most of these JD Power/CR and other studies on quality and satisfaction are nothing but sponsored marketing gimmick. Quality/reliability are WORTHLESS to me during my warranty period....hehe

There is NO long term quality/reliability studies as cars are more disposable as they have ever been......good luck finding anything but word of mouth.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

I cant believe this thread is still going.
Talk about beating a dead horse to a pulp.

 

[lavaheadache]

Didn't bother reading through pages of comments but really my opinion comes to this.


The reason for buying foriegn cars for me is as simple as this:

RX-7
RX-8
Supra
Z cars
NSX
Miata
exige

ETC......

What are my domestic options? Let's be serious now. Pontiac Solstice or Honda s2000?

 

[Topweasel]

Didn't bother reading through pages of comments but really my opinion comes to this.


The reason for buying foriegn cars for me is as simple as this:

RX-7
RX-8
Supra
Z cars
NSX
Miata
exige

ETC......

What are my domestic options? Let's be serious now. Pontiac Solstice or Honda s2000?

Huh?

But to answer your question.
Mustang
Camaro
Corvette
Viper
Panoz Roadster
Panoz Esperante
Focus ST(or SVT)
Shelby Cobra
Saleen S7
Ford GT
Sky
GTO

A lot of them are still in production and most are decently affordable and loaded with the same kind of fun those are. Not to say that the thread has merrit. But just as it's stupid to say that their isn't a good reason to by foreign. The same thing can be said that you can't get a fun American car.