It makes no sense to buy foreign cars

[heymrdj]

LOL! Too poor? I was looking at a $38,000 Mercedes coupe just a month before I bought this car and a Lexus GS350 the month prior to that (the GS350 will probably be my wife's next car).

My last car was a midsize and I drove that for 10 years. WTF do I need a bigger car for?

I wanted something that I didn't have to fill up every 4 days. That's why I bought the Camry Hybrid. Not because I couldn't afford a bigger car.

The only American car that competes is the Fusion Hybrid and that was several thousand dollars more expensive comparably equipped and my last experience at a Ford dealer put me off so bad that I didn't even bother to test drive the Fusion.

I did drive the new Avalon but the Hybrid version of that car costs $10k more than the Camry. Wasn't worth it to me. It is more comfortable for sure but not that much more comfortable. I spend 2 hours a day in my car and find the Camry to be perfectly fine for commuting. All the seats are very comfortable and there is plenty of room in the back for 2 adults to ride comfortably for many hours.

I have zero need for an Expedition Freddy Krueger Edition.

Wasn't saying you were too poor for a more expensive car. You're the one pointing out that you didn't want to pay for more gas.

Again your car works for you. It has no bearing on the reply on beating the 300 IN CLASS. The 300 is a large luxury car. Not a midsize, and not lacking in luxuries. Your HWY mileage (which is what's important to me so obviously we should judge the entire comparison on this merit alone just as you've managed to drag in that midsize cars are somehow equivocal) is barely better than most in that ranking (because hybrid tech can't really help on the highway) and on top of that your power is no where near as nice.

So again you're making a comparison apples to oranges. The Camry isn't where size or luxury stops, there's way better above it, which includes the 300, for what people in that market want. Your car is nowhere even in the comparison or on the same dart board.

 

[hans007]

Again, people talking about Chrysler fit and finish really need to go drive some 2012 and 2013s and come back and report. Better than Honda, Toyota, now. Don't believe me? Go sit in a 2013 Charger or 300.

does this even really count as domestic at this point.

the new charger and 300 are based on parts of an older mercedes chassis, and the interior in the 300 really improved once fiat bought them. they are about to buy the rest of the company.

the dart is based on a european alfa romeo giuletta.

the only remaining american dodge is the sebring/200 which is a horrible vehicle and the one carry over from the pre fiat days.

 

[CraigRT]

No one wants to ride 16 hours in a Civic unless they're too poor.

Wow..
I have a Civic sedan and I picked it because of its comfort for my long commute. I don't see any reason why you could not spend 16 hours in a Civic vs any other car.. I love the comfort of mine. It sits 4 comfortably as well.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Wasn't saying you were too poor for a more expensive car. You're the one pointing out that you didn't want to pay for more gas.

Again your car works for you. It has no bearing on the reply on beating the 300 IN CLASS. The 300 is a large luxury car. Not a midsize, and not lacking in luxuries. Your HWY mileage (which is what's important to me so obviously we should judge the entire comparison on this merit alone just as you've managed to drag in that midsize cars are somehow equivocal) is barely better than most in that ranking (because hybrid tech can't really help on the highway) and on top of that your power is no where near as nice.

So again you're making a comparison apples to oranges. The Camry isn't where size or luxury stops, there's way better above it, which includes the 300, for what people in that market want. Your car is nowhere even in the comparison or on the same dart board.

The 300 isn't that much bigger than a Camry, I know, I rented one for a week, the trunk is larger but interior wasn't that much larger and wikipedia has the LaCrosse listed as a midsize besides I WAS shopping both larger and smaller cars.

And where the fuck did I compare them? You're the one who started attacking my choice in cars. I simply said that 19mpg was a no go for me. City mpg is what matters since that is where I live and what my driving is like on a daily basis. Highway mpg is absolutely meaningless. So stop putting words in my mouth and please don't ever compare me to that assclown alky. :thumbsdown:

 

[JulesMaximus]

I never said this.

than to think that your purchase is applicable to everyone.

I also never said any of this.

If you want to compare your vehicle to the large car class, at least come in with an Avalon Hybrid XLE. As it is you're just comparing a smaller car that you could afford that doesn't even compare to the aforementioned competitor (300).

I have said this.

But I'm glad for you the Camry is big enough.

I never said or even implied any of this.

Again your car works for you. It has no bearing on the reply on beating the 300 IN CLASS. The 300 is a large luxury car.

I never said this either

Your HWY mileage (which is what's important to me so obviously we should judge the entire comparison on this merit alone just as you've managed to drag in that midsize cars are somehow equivocal)

I never made the comparison. You seem to be the only one arguing this and I certainly never said that the Camry is where luxury stops.

So again you're making a comparison apples to oranges. The Camry isn't where size or luxury stops, there's way better above it, which includes the 300, for what people in that market want.

What I actually did say:

19mpg city. Yeah, I'm gonna pass on that.

 

[heymrdj]

Wow..
I have a Civic sedan and I picked it because of its comfort for my long commute. I don't see any reason why you could not spend 16 hours in a Civic vs any other car.. I love the comfort of mine. It sits 4 comfortably as well.

Civic's floorboard isn't deep enough. It makes it so even with the seat all the way back I can't have to full length of my legs to the kneecaps supported (my knees are up because there's only so much room for the legs going downward), which tends to make my feet numb. Deep buckets FTW.

 

[heymrdj]

I never said this.


I also never said any of this.


I have said this.


I never said or even implied any of this.


I never said this either


I never made the comparison. You seem to be the only one arguing this and I certainly never said that the Camry is where luxury stops.


What I actually did say:

I think you need to understand how conversations are linked. You posted against the fuel economy of the large sedan (which had nothing of value in the conversation that the 300 is objectively best in class). You then feel the need to bring up that your car is "plenty spacious and gets 41MPG". That is making a comparison, a comparison at which, with everything analyzed, the Camry fails horribly. At least you could have delimited it and say that the car has enough space for your taste. But instead you stated it matter of fact.

I believe me and another user here had a debate over which 300 was "better" (bang for buck), in terms of the V6 or the more powerful V8 when fuel economy came into it. I was rooting for the V6 with limited experience with the V8. All said and done, and having driven both of them alot more for work, the V8 with the 5 speed is still a much more luxurious ride, and will be a done deal when the 8spd/V8 combo comes for the 2014 models. Having so much torque on tap is amazing when you drive alot of miles, barely ever gearing down, and when you do gear down it's just a small jump from 12-1400 RPM to 1800-2000RPM. Passing and city driving is great too when you don't feel it struggling to get out of the way of it's own tail.

I really have nothing against you and I don't want it to come across that way. I get tired of the fuel economy argument as it's a tired worn out issue that to me is lumped with the greater picture: You can either afford a large luxury vehicle, or you can't (afford encapsulates both the ability, and the acceptance with, spending that money vs on other things in terms of vehicle maintenance, gas, insurance, premium parts ect). Most of my driving is city and I just accept my daily 12mpg aveage because with mods and the like the truck is just way too much damn fun not to do it. Sure that eats into the budget elsewhere but it's worth it .

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Actually domestics are trying now to price theirs as much as imports, and domestics resell values are much lower. I pity ones who pay as much as imports, then end up with fixing bunch of things, and then eventually when they are tired of that, sell it dirt cheap.

If you have any doubt about that, just look at names of GM and Chrysler cars. They give them new names every few years (cavalier, cobalt, cruze, neon, dart, etc.), because old names have no brand value, it is actually better for them to start "clean"

Been there done that. Both wife and I daily drive Honda's these days.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I think you need to understand how conversations are linked. You posted against the fuel economy of the large sedan (which had nothing of value in the conversation that the 300 is objectively best in class). You then feel the need to bring up that your car is "plenty spacious and gets 41MPG". That is making a comparison, a comparison at which, with everything analyzed, the Camry fails horribly. At least you could have delimited it and say that the car has enough space for your taste. But instead you stated it matter of fact.

I believe me and another user here had a debate over which 300 was "better" (bang for buck), in terms of the V6 or the more powerful V8 when fuel economy came into it. I was rooting for the V6 with limited experience with the V8. All said and done, and having driven both of them alot more for work, the V8 with the 5 speed is still a much more luxurious ride, and will be a done deal when the 8spd/V8 combo comes for the 2014 models. Having so much torque on tap is amazing when you drive alot of miles, barely ever gearing down, and when you do gear down it's just a small jump from 12-1400 RPM to 1800-2000RPM. Passing and city driving is great too when you don't feel it struggling to get out of the way of it's own tail.

I really have nothing against you and I don't want it to come across that way. I get tired of the fuel economy argument as it's a tired worn out issue that to me is lumped with the greater picture: You can either afford a large luxury vehicle, or you can't (afford encapsulates both the ability, and the acceptance with, spending that money vs on other things in terms of vehicle maintenance, gas, insurance, premium parts ect). Most of my driving is city and I just accept my daily 12mpg aveage because with mods and the like the truck is just way too much damn fun not to do it. Sure that eats into the budget elsewhere but it's worth it .

You read WAY too much into my posts. There never was any comparison and I never considered the Chrysler when I was car shopping despite having driven several fullsize luxury cars. And a fully optioned 300 may barely squeeze into that category certainly not the base rental car models though. I'd take my car over the rental fleet 300 any day.

I've driven the 300 a few times, even the SRT8, and have been completely unimpressed by it every time and the fuel economy is atrocious on those models.

The Camry Hybrid is actually faster than the gas only 4 cylinder model and will go from 0-60mph in about 7.4 seconds (which is faster than the turbocharged Dodge Dart you were posting about earlier). It doesn't handle particularly well and I think that is due in large part to the tires as it doesn't wallow about like a boat, but those tires do howl at the slightest hint of steering input despite the chassis remaining fairly level. The steering provides little feedback but the car is comfy, quiet, and reasonably quick. Oh, did I mention that it gets 41mpg city?

 

[sdifox]

19mpg city. Yeah, I'm gonna pass on that. :thumbsdown:

So, what have we learned from this thread? That is does actually make sense to buy foreign cars.

I get about 18.9mpg combined in my landboat :biggrin:

 

[Phanuel]

Highway mileage, el oh el. Sure, I get that, maybe once a week when I'm not stuck in commute hour traffic. Otherwise I'm getting city or worse since I spend so much time sitting in a parking lot with the AC on.

 

[Midwayman]

Domestics are making some cars that I'm actually interested in looking at these days. That's something I couldn't say even 10 years ago. I just wish they'd get other their 'always on special' pricing program. The MSRP is laughable, but anyone who shops domestic knows to wait for the huge rebates, etc that they do all the time.

 

[jagec]

I get tired of the fuel economy argument as it's a tired worn out issue that to me is lumped with the greater picture: You can either afford a large luxury vehicle, or you can't

Many, many people who make staggeringly more money than you could ever dream of seem to think that large luxury vehicles aren't the end-all, be-all of transportation.

Large luxury vehicles are only driven by two classes of people: People who truly do want the extra size and don't care about the costs (personal or societal), or people who want to project the appearance of success because they're insecure. If you're in the former class, good for you, but comments like yours are typical of people in the latter.

 

[heymrdj]

Many, many people who make staggeringly more money than you could ever dream of seem to think that large luxury vehicles aren't the end-all, be-all of transportation.

Large luxury vehicles are only driven by two classes of people: People who truly do want the extra size and don't care about the costs (personal or societal), or people who want to project the appearance of success because they're insecure. If you're in the former class, good for you, but comments like yours are typical of people in the latter.

You're misquoting. The argument is that you can either afford the vehicle or you can't. At the end of the day a luxury car has costs, like suvs, like sports cars, like electric cars, like riding the bus. Its blavk and white. You either have the discretional income or you don't. Its not rocket science in the slightest.

 

[sdifox]

Highway mileage, el oh el. Sure, I get that, maybe once a week when I'm not stuck in commute hour traffic. Otherwise I'm getting city or worse since I spend so much time sitting in a parking lot with the AC on.

Combined... you know, mix of highway and local?

 

[desura]

Domestics are making some cars that I'm actually interested in looking at these days. That's something I couldn't say even 10 years ago. I just wish they'd get other their 'always on special' pricing program. The MSRP is laughable, but anyone who shops domestic knows to wait for the huge rebates, etc that they do all the time.

Yeah, this is what I'm trying to communicate. I mean, 10 years ago, this was the Ford sedan:

For some reason, domestics always seemed like they were made to be missing their hubcaps...

The 2006-era Ford Fusion is what really first got my attention that it was time to start paying attention to domestics again.

 

[Vic Vega]

That's a late 90's Taurus. 10 years ago this was the Taurus:

Ten years ago this was the Accord:

Ten years ago this was the Camry:

All of these cars were boring and terrible IMO and the truth is overall there wasn't much that separated them. The only mid-size family sedan slightly interesting at the time was from Nissan - and that car was soo good they stopped building it and started building the "space ship".

Anyone who says the Accord or Camry from that period was more (or less) interesting or engaging to drive than the Taurus is full of it.

Ford should never have stopped building this:

 

[jagec]

You're misquoting. The argument is that you can either afford the vehicle or you can't. At the end of the day a luxury car has costs, like suvs, like sports cars, like electric cars, like riding the bus. Its blavk and white. You either have the discretional income or you don't. Its not rocket science in the slightest.

I re-read the quote war with Jules and I see what you're getting at. Presumably anyone shopping for a 300 isn't going to be cross-shopping a Civic for the higher fuel economy.

Now, if BMW were able to make a 5-series that got 30 MPG in the city while still having excellent handling, comfort, and power on tap, that would change the equation somewhat. It's one thing to spend money on gas because you can afford it, but it's another to spend money on gas because you're driving old tech.

Anyone who says the Accord or Camry from that period was more (or less) interesting or engaging to drive than the Taurus is full of it.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. The 90s Honda/Toyota people movers were utterly soulless and boring to look at or to drive, BUT at least they drove like the econoboxes that they were. Somehow the Taurus felt like you were driving a land barge...but without the cushy ride or power to match. I admit that I only drove one a handful of times, but man...maybe it was the overboosted steering, maybe it was the poor turning radius, but that thing was just about as unpleasant to drive as a cargo van. Particularly when maneuvering around a parking lot.

 

[gakr2519770]

I couldn't disagree more. Love my Honda, very reliable..

 

[Arkaign]

You're misquoting. The argument is that you can either afford the vehicle or you can't. At the end of the day a luxury car has costs, like suvs, like sports cars, like electric cars, like riding the bus. Its blavk and white. You either have the discretional income or you don't. Its not rocket science in the slightest.

I'm not sure I understand this. The richest guy I know personally drives a 1980's-era Diesel dually. Oh, and he also has an old Indian that he can't ride anymore. He could buy a stable full of exotics if he wanted, but he simply doesn't care.

 

[pandemonium]

Since no one else has cited these facts:

For cost and dependability, here's some KBB action for you; 5-year cost to own breakdown including fuel, insurance, financing, state fees, maintenance, repairs, and depreciation.


As for American jobs, it's pretty well diversified by make; regardless of the origin of parenting manufacturer. Click here for NHTSA's % by make/model on each vehicle.


I think it's safe to say things change every year. For the most part, don't judge based on old stereotypes and if you're really all patriotical and @!^$, wait until the NHTSA releases their list to see which reaches 80% to maintain your "national pride".

 

[nerp]

19mpg city. Yeah, I'm gonna pass on that. :thumbsdown:

So, what have we learned from this thread? That is does actually make sense to buy foreign cars.

Get the v6 with the 8-speed and your combined milage will be 25 easily.

 

[nerp]

does this even really count as domestic at this point.

the new charger and 300 are based on parts of an older mercedes chassis, and the interior in the 300 really improved once fiat bought them. they are about to buy the rest of the company.

the dart is based on a european alfa romeo giuletta.

the only remaining american dodge is the sebring/200 which is a horrible vehicle and the one carry over from the pre fiat days.

Chrysler is an American brand and that's the basis for this entire thread. We all know that every car is a product of multinational commerce and globalism. Until GM, Chrysler and Ford completely move their HQs out of the the US, they'll remain domestic brands.

 

[nerp]

Many, many people who make staggeringly more money than you could ever dream of seem to think that large luxury vehicles aren't the end-all, be-all of transportation.

Large luxury vehicles are only driven by two classes of people: People who truly do want the extra size and don't care about the costs (personal or societal), or people who want to project the appearance of success because they're insecure. If you're in the former class, good for you, but comments like yours are typical of people in the latter.

As soon as someone says "there are two types of people who do X" it's time to ignore the rest of the argument. There's no way in hell there are only two types of people who buy full size luxury cars. Hell, is the Charger a luxury car? It's essentially a 300 with a different body style and less sound deadening so you can hear the engine more to match it's more "aggressive" styling. But nobody calls the Charger a luxury car. A nicely spec'd out Charger SRT8 can run you $10 to $20k more than a base Acura or even a BMW. So which is the luxury car there? And there are only two buyer types? Not really. There's that new entry-level Mercedes that will cost less in some configurations than a Camry hybrid.

The fact is there are millions of car buyers buying different cars for different reasons. To think that half the people who drive "luxury" brands are self conscious I think makes the incorrect assumption that half the population is still trying to get over high school. I will wager that the average person fancies a car because of emotional triggers and financial considerations. The douchebag who lives and dies by his car's supposed aura projected to those around him is really a tiny fraction of the driving population.

 

[pandemonium]

Until GM, Chrysler and Ford completely move their HQs out of the the US, they'll remain domestic brands.

The NHTSA disagrees with you (at least on a model basis). (See my post above.)