It makes no sense to buy foreign cars

[nerp]

Fuck the NHTSA. Real car people stick with the HQ address. No need to get all Thomas Friedman on us. What matters is where the profits go and we all know it's the top executives and shareholders.

 

[pandemonium]

Oh, okay. So, if my vehicle's CEO resides in America, but is 100% made in China, it's still American? Your logic is awesome.

 

[AdamK47]

Here's a shocker:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/26/business/la-fi-mo-power-car-buying-perceptions-20120126

 

[heymrdj]

I re-read the quote war with Jules and I see what you're getting at. Presumably anyone shopping for a 300 isn't going to be cross-shopping a Civic for the higher fuel economy.

Now, if BMW were able to make a 5-series that got 30 MPG in the city while still having excellent handling, comfort, and power on tap, that would change the equation somewhat. It's one thing to spend money on gas because you can afford it, but it's another to spend money on gas because you're driving old tech.

Yeah now you got it, if you look at the luxo car brands 17-28mpg is about the average across the board. Driving a civic myself, I get about 31 combined (about 35.5 on the highway). In a 300S V6/8spd I get 31 highway and about 24-25 combined, a well worth it drop in fuel economy to me.

I agree 100% with your second statement. Right now their Activehybrids are about 14-20k more than their equivocal base models. That buys *alot* of gas. Especially when a base 528 gets 34mpg highway. Right now high end hybrid drive trains that are inspiring are just really pricey. Sure a camry hybrid isn't too much of a eco tax, but it's also very weak in comparison. High end drive trains like in use by Mercedes and BMW are very expensive, and then of course their's Tesla . If they can get high performance hybrids that make more sense, the game (equation) will change and I think we'll see more high end hybrids on the road than we do now.

I'm not sure I understand this. The richest guy I know personally drives a 1980's-era Diesel dually. Oh, and he also has an old Indian that he can't ride anymore. He could buy a stable full of exotics if he wanted, but he simply doesn't care.

That's why I said discretionary income. We're not holding the hands of the buyers here. They have to want a car with certain niceties. As you said, he simply doesn't care, and those people don't factor into this conversation. He could love planes, or horses, houses, wine, or nothing. Maybe he's just adverse to spending money at all. That's his prerogative and means nothing about being able to afford a nice car with all its required maintenance ect. "Being able to afford" also includes being able to allow yourself to do so.

Get the v6 with the 8-speed and your combined milage will be 25 easily.

Exactly! :thumbsup: Not 40mpg, but a much nicer car and way more powerful.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'm into simplifying my life as much as possible with regards to car choices. That's why I drive a Honda fit now. Takes 10 minutes to hand wash the car, $25 to fill up, fit my groceries or dog in the back very easily, cheap insurance, car payment extremely small with nothing down.
I could buy a luxury car but I really don't see the point. I almost bought a Mustang instead of my fit. Tbh the Mustang drove like a boat, the visibility felt like I was wearing a paper bag over my head with tiny holes cut out to see through. If that's luxury I'll pass.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Nevermind.

Your car is better than mine. You win.

 

[heymrdj]

I rented a 300 a few years ago. It isn't much nicer.

23 combined economy is 2 mpg more than the combined mpg of my 10 year old Maxima. And does the 300S require premium fuel? Not a well worth it improvement in fuel economy for me. I average about 20,000 miles a year.

Way more powerful? It is a half a second faster to 60 than my car. It is also quite a bit more expensive than what I paid for my car.

Anyway, I'm very happy not visiting a gas station every 4 days to fill my tank.

Well a few years ago wouldn't be the new generation of 300's then so yeah it would suck.

The only engine that needs premium is the 6.4L SRT8 which is good for sub 5 second 0-60 runs. Your car is 7.6 seconds, 6.4 seconds for a V6 300, and 5.9 for a 5.7 V8 hemi.

Anyways I'm happy driving a comfortable car with lots of trunk space that isn't taken up by a battery pack and getting 31mpg while still not driving like a grandma.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Well a few years ago wouldn't be the new generation of 300's then so yeah it would suck.

The only engine that needs premium is the 6.4L SRT8 which is good for sub 5 second 0-60 runs. Your car is 7.6 seconds, 6.4 seconds for a V6 300, and 5.9 for a 5.7 V8 hemi.

Anyways I'm happy driving a comfortable car with lots of trunk space that isn't taken up by a battery pack and getting 31mpg while still not driving like a grandma.

31mpg? Maybe under the best circumstances on the highway. With a city mpg of 19 you will be getting low 20's avg. The cargo space is considerably less than my econobox Honda fit.
I really can't see one good reason to own that particular car. It really doesn't stand out in any particular category and isn't really even good in any either.

 

[heymrdj]

31mpg? Maybe under the best circumstances on the highway. With a city mpg of 19 you will be getting low 20's avg. The cargo space is considerably less than my econobox Honda fit.
I really can't see one good reason to own that particular car. It really doesn't stand out in any particular category and isn't really even good in any either.

Highway runs with ACC on (automated cruise control that matches the speed of traffic) have been netting 35-38mpg, I average 32mpg@74mph. My city average is about 21mpg. This is with work's 300S.

And as for your apples to oranges comparison of a fit it barely even deserves a response. I know the Fit's inside and out because I was sitting down to do the paperwork on one before I saw how much better civics leased. Of course you have space because it's a freaking hatchback! So does the focus, Mazda wagon, Fiesta, Equinox, Escape, Pilot, blah blah blah. I can't believe you would even make such a statement. Apparently the word "class" is too much for some member's vocabularies. I think every car award is judged by it's class, but apparently they are wrong, as we should be comparing Insights to F-550's. The Insights are just horrible vehicles, there's no where to even mount the 5th wheel hitch and it sags big time when I try to hook it to my 35' camper. But I get so many mpgs! :whiste:

Don't worry, luxury hatchbacks are coming down the line to give an alternative to the cramped focus and the buzzy Fit.

 

[jagec]

31mpg? Maybe under the best circumstances on the highway. With a city mpg of 19 you will be getting low 20's avg.

The old rules have gone out the window with modern transmissions and engines. The new rules are LOTS of power if you need it, good mileage when you don't.

Even the Corvette can hit 30 MPG on the freeway if you can convince yourself to drive under the speed limit.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The old rules have gone out the window with modern transmissions and engines. The new rules are LOTS of power if you need it, good mileage when you don't.

Even the Corvette can hit 30 MPG on the freeway if you can convince yourself to drive under the speed limit.

And if you live in the city, as I and millions of other people do, you will realize that highway mpg is absolutely meaningless.

 

[Phanuel]

And if you live in the city, as I and millions of other people do, you will realize that highway mpg is absolutely meaningless.

If you live anywhere with commute hours traffic, you'll be hard pressed to even see city MPG. My commute is something like 9 miles and it takes me 25 minutes in the morning and 40+ in the evening to drive that.

 

[JulesMaximus]

If you live anywhere with commute hours traffic, you'll be hard pressed to even see city MPG. My commute is something like 9 miles and it takes me 25 minutes in the morning and 40+ in the evening to drive that.

Mine is 30 miles and it typically takes me an hour.

 

[Doppel]

Fuck the NHTSA. Real car people stick with the HQ address. No need to get all Thomas Friedman on us. What matters is where the profits go and we all know it's the top executives and shareholders.

So you are more interested in the CEO's pay check than the workers? Got it.

 

[Throckmorton]

So you are more interested in the CEO's pay check than the workers? Got it.

To be fair, the workers at the foreign owned plants make far less than their union counterparts at the American carmakers...

 

[natto fire]

And if you live in the city, as I and millions of other people do, you will realize that highway mpg is absolutely meaningless.

So can the millions of others that are not stupid enjoy one thing, or would it be better to tailor everything to the morons moving on top of each other and pretending that they don't hate each other be better?

I never understood why in a country that has plenty of space to spread out, we do the opposite, and then cry when there is crazy stuff happening in our dense neighborhoods.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So can the millions of others that are not stupid enjoy one thing, or would it be better to tailor everything to the morons moving on top of each other and pretending that they don't hate each other be better?

I never understood why in a country that has plenty of space to spread out, we do the opposite, and then cry when there is crazy stuff happening in our dense neighborhoods.

I never said that everyone should drive the same car I drive.

 

[KentState]

I never said that everyone should drive the same car I drive.

But we know you think it

 

[WilliamM2]

To be fair, the workers at the foreign owned plants make far less than their union counterparts at the American carmakers...

No American companies don't pay the workers any better. But they do pay management and executives better.

http://www.manufacturing.net/news/2008/12/gm-vs-toyota-wages-and-benefits

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-18/mbdlhh0yhq0x.html

 

[natto fire]

I never said that everyone should drive the same car I drive.

I would agree with that now that you took the SUV chip off your shoulder, but you still have a regional bias IMO. You clearly look down upon people that have dissimilar tastes as you, and you don't really hide it.

There is no problem with that, except when you try to pretend to be a neutral party. Which, again, I don't think anyone here acknowledges that you are neutral so I am cool with that.

 

[Fenixgoon]

But we know you think it

lotus elises for all!

there was a guy who came to autocross with an Exige S. that thing was BAD. ASS.

 

[natto fire]

lotus elises for all!

there was a guy who came to autocross with an Exige S. that thing was BAD. ASS.

And another story from my chapter of the SCCA. A guy was here with a 360 Modena and it was quite anti-climatic. Then again the stock class is pretty lame compared to the RP class cars of much more mundane chassis and we expect that.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I would agree with that now that you took the SUV chip off your shoulder, but you still have a regional bias IMO. You clearly look down upon people that have dissimilar tastes as you, and you don't really hide it.

There is no problem with that, except when you try to pretend to be a neutral party. Which, again, I don't think anyone here acknowledges that you are neutral so I am cool with that.

Perhaps. Nobody is completely neutral but then again nobody is paying me for my opinion so kindly feel free to sod off if you don't appreciate it.

Seriously though, I have spent a fair amount of time recently researching cars and the Chrysler 300 did enter into it but the mileage killed it for me... I never even test drove it and I did test drive a few cars in fullsize luxury category that are much better cars but it kept nagging at me that I'd be trading a paid for car for a car payment and keeping the same monthly expense for fuel. With my commute that was no small consideration. Ultimately, the only contenders were the Ford Fusion and the Camry Hybrid. The Prius was a distant third or fourth or... whatever, but I never drove one of those either. I'll admit that I never drove the Fusion Hybrid but that was due to my last experience at a Ford dealership. They were so high pressure that it just put me off so much that I never want to set foot on a Ford dealer lot again.

Fuel economy be damned the Mercedes-Benz C350 Coupe was my emotional favorite. I really liked that car but sensibility got the best of me. In these times though, the Camry made the most sense. It's not that I couldn't afford a less fuel efficient car, it's that I didn't want a less or the even the same fuel efficient car. That opinion may change over time. We will see.

Lotus Elises for all.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Also, I have owned 2 Fords and a Pontiac in my lifetime. I would buy another Ford. I probably wouldn't buy a Chrysler or a GM though. Lexus or Mercedes or BMW would definitely be on the list... possibly Cadillac. Lotus=Definitely.

Again, this may change over time.

 

[natto fire]

Seriously I wish CAFE would just piss off and legislate curb weight instead of fuel economy. IMO you can have 90% of the Elise experience by simply taking any old car that is sitting in the 2500lbs or less club, put good tires, and there you go. "But exotic multi-link suspension!" you might cry. Well it was commonplace back when the Japanese were busy embarrassing Detroit in the '90s, but even they have felt the cold axe of cost-cutting to compete with a revitalized American industry.

I love my sod, and have never appreciated, agreed with, or even liked your opinion, barring lightweight travel that is. I know I will never hear the end of it and your PPD versus mine speaks volumes to that, but I will never waver from my opinion and try to be less vocal about it to boot.