It makes no sense to buy foreign cars

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May 13, 2009
12,333
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The badge, and spending more money.

You mean you don't think a 200hp/150tq FF econobox is a good deal for ~$30k?

I read a review. Seems like you do get some value for the extra cash vs a plain jane civic. 200 horses, improved suspension and steering, more sound deadening (if you know civics they are louder than they should be), different styling (I don't like the looks personally), different interior (again subjective).
I'd rather have the SI personally.
 
Last edited:

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,435
3,109
136
What have we learned from this thread?

I've learned nothing. Perception is still nine-tenths.
 

pandemonium

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,777
76
91
I feel like American cars have greatly improved in the past decade. Some of them are just as good, if not better, than foreign products now. However, pre-2005 or so, American cars were truly awful.

However, I'm now the very happy owner of a Focus 2012, which has served me perfectly thus far ^_^. It's proudly made in Michigan, too.

Agreed that Domestic vehicles - particularly Ford - have been doing much better in the last ~5 years.

Your Focus isn't very American, however. It's only 40%:

Ford Motor Ford Focus (Auto) PC 40% 15% M US US M
Ford Motor Ford Focus (Electric) PC 40% 15%M US US US

Ford Motor Ford Focus (Manual) PC 40% 15% M US US G

My Ford was made in Michigan.

Are you sure?

Final assembly and the building of parts are two separate things.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,842
1,047
126
on the topic of saving gas... I drive my wife's Sonata instead of my SUV to the local CVS, and other quick trips, but god damn that thing is boring as hell to drive, even for 5 minutes. It definitely feels like an appliance. I should've at least made her get the Veloster Turbo. Screw MPG. The stated 36MPG highway turns into 20MPG mixed anyway.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Not sure the hybrids ever make sense though from what I understand of the battery tech and the cost to replace.
From what you understand? You don't. To still be talking about battery replacement costs of a hybrid in 2013 you've made it unequivocally clear you know nothing about them. This is a non-issue. Why are people still talking about this? It was never an issue. This myth is literally over a decade old. Prius has sold millions. When will people stop saying this? What will it take?
 

heymrdj

Diamond Member
May 28, 2007
3,999
63
91
From what you understand? You don't. To still be talking about battery replacement costs of a hybrid in 2013 you've made it unequivocally clear you know nothing about them. This is a non-issue. Why are people still talking about this? It was never an issue. This myth is literally over a decade old. Prius has sold millions. When will people stop saying this? What will it take?

Easy never ever *ever* *eeeevvvvveerrrr* requiring a batter replacement. Until then it's an item on the maibtenace list, a very expensive one.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Slight derail:

I've been looking at the ford focus lately. Probably hatchback b/c it's more useful, can fit a bicycle inside.

Any recommendations? It's the same car as like the Mazda 3 or something, isn't it?

And the Focus was one of the cars which was "designed in Germany" IIRC.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,613
16,004
126
Slight derail:

I've been looking at the ford focus lately. Probably hatchback b/c it's more useful, can fit a bicycle inside.

Any recommendations? It's the same car as like the Mazda 3 or something, isn't it?

And the Focus was one of the cars which was "designed in Germany" IIRC.

shouldn't you drive it?
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81

I wouldn't put too much into those "Dependability ratings." Those ratings do not take into account how the car is driven. Certain brands have vastly different demographics. The average Buick driver is not the same as the average Scion driver.

Not to mention some cars just have more features so there's more things that can go wrong.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
The badge, and spending more money.

You mean you don't think a 200hp/150tq FF econobox is a good deal for ~$30k?

There are huge differences between the ILX and the Civic.

I have a ILX Tech Package (basically loaded without the Hybrid). I get a super high quality 10 speaker stereo. Leather seats. Nearly the same interior as the other Acuras. Push button start. Better suspension. It's more insulated than the Civic making it a quieter car. Better looks (Civic is ok but it looks like a "econo-box", Acura looks like a luxury car). Plus many more small interior and electronic differences you'd only find in a luxury car.

Here is an article that explains even more differneces:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/...-vs-2012-honda-civic-which-would-you-buy.html

It's very cliche for people say "Oh that's just a rebadged so and so....!" Happens all the time.

I've heard people say a Lexus LS is a rebadged Camry, yeah right. It's a common thing for jealous people on the internet to say.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
I assume the new ILX (200 HP version) has the K24, which in that application is by no means weak on torque. I test drove a 2012 Civic SI and it felt like one of the most torquey four bangers I have ever driven minus some turbo 4's. It feels nothing like the 8th gen SI with the K20 high revver. Just saying.

I prefer the weaker engine because it likely gets better gas mileage. Some of you guys a ridiculous about the hp in cars. My 150hp is very quick and more than does the job. It's not exactly a Toyota Yaris. I don't find myself struggling to keep up on the highway or merge on ramps. It's a quick and responsive car.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
I prefer the weaker engine because it likely gets better gas mileage. Some of you guys a ridiculous about the hp in cars. My 150hp is very quick and more than does the job. It's not exactly a Toyota Yaris. I don't find myself struggling to keep up on the highway or merge on ramps. It's a quick and responsive car.
lol idk about USA but I feel 100 hp is enough to do anything if the car is small enough, including dealing with tricky situations on chaotic italian roads.
But it's probably addictive and maybe that's why most people in the garage want more, they've tried the real thing.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
lol idk about USA but I feel 100 hp is enough to do anything if the car is small enough, including dealing with tricky situations on chaotic italian roads.
But it's probably addictive and maybe that's why most people in the garage want more, they've tried the real thing.

You'll find that most Americans, including most on this forum think they need 200-300+ hp to get themselves to their daily office jobs.
 

KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,397
393
126
You'll find that most Americans, including most on this forum think they need 200-300+ hp to get themselves to their daily office jobs.

I think most Amercians think you need the badge more than anything. Doesn't matter if the car makes sense or not.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
106
There are huge differences between the ILX and the Civic.

I have a ILX Tech Package (basically loaded without the Hybrid). I get a super high quality 10 speaker stereo. Leather seats. Nearly the same interior as the other Acuras. Push button start. Better suspension. It's more insulated than the Civic making it a quieter car. Better looks (Civic is ok but it looks like a "econo-box", Acura looks like a luxury car). Plus many more small interior and electronic differences you'd only find in a luxury car.

Here is an article that explains even more differneces:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/...-vs-2012-honda-civic-which-would-you-buy.html

It's very cliche for people say "Oh that's just a rebadged so and so....!" Happens all the time.

I've heard people say a Lexus LS is a rebadged Camry, yeah right. It's a common thing for jealous people on the internet to say.

Nobody is jealous about your ILX.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
You'll find that most Americans, including most on this forum think they need 200-300+ hp to get themselves to their daily office jobs.
That's true. I've made no secret I think the power in cars has gotten totally pointless. Most of the mainstream V6 sedans are thoroughly overpowered and if you try and really wind them out on a public road you're immediately breaking the law, and massively. Most of the camaraos and mustangs you see are 100% show cars. Row the gears on one on a public road and a cop sees you you're in jail.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,881
53
91
I prefer the weaker engine because it likely gets better gas mileage. Some of you guys a ridiculous about the hp in cars. My 150hp is very quick and more than does the job. It's not exactly a Toyota Yaris. I don't find myself struggling to keep up on the highway or merge on ramps. It's a quick and responsive car.

No it isn't. Compare a Focus with only 10 more hp and it is noticeably quicker. A Kia Forte, both engines...quicker. Both cars have better handling dynamics as well.
Stop putting words in our mouth. We aren't comparing your Civic to 250-300hp mid-sized sedans.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,881
53
91
That's true. I've made no secret I think the power in cars has gotten totally pointless. Most of the mainstream V6 sedans are thoroughly overpowered and if you try and really wind them out on a public road you're immediately breaking the law, and massively. Most of the camaraos and mustangs you see are 100% show cars. Row the gears on one on a public road and a cop sees you you're in jail.

That's because you have no personality.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
So what do you guys think of this?



The Dodge Dart.

I myself am just getting past the Toyota/Honda bias to take a look at Ford. Still haven't really given Chrysler or GM a good look. The Dart though is new for 2013 and is a product of the Fia merger. Looks very interesting.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
That's because you have no personality.
It's the fact I have a personality and some gusto in the way I drive that has given me this view of cars. My current commuter is an econobox and I drive faster than 99% of the people on the road. My last car did 0-60 in the low 6's and I managed to get rid of it before getting into serious trouble. A modern sports sedan cannot be exercised legally on the roads anywhere close to its true capabilities, not even close. The same can be said of pretty much any vehicle on the road now. Even a typical minivan is doing 0-60 in the 7's, and can go around corners above the speed limit. And a sports car like a Corvette, forget it, they are show pieces to virtually all their owners.

A guy who owns a fast car and takes it to the track isn't a poseur. He knows what his car can do and does it. A guy who's driving a Mustang GT around and actually drives legally all the time is a poseur. He wants to give off the bad ass impression, but he's not the real deal.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,881
53
91
It's the fact I have a personality and some gusto in the way I drive that has given me this view of cars. My current commuter is an econobox and I drive faster than 99% of the people on the road. My last car did 0-60 in the low 6's and I managed to get rid of it before getting into serious trouble. A modern sports sedan cannot be exercised legally on the roads anywhere close to its true capabilities, not even close. The same can be said of pretty much any vehicle on the road now. Even a typical minivan is doing 0-60 in the 7's, and can go around corners above the speed limit. And a sports car like a Corvette, forget it, they are show pieces to virtually all their owners.

A guy who owns a fast car and takes it to the track isn't a poseur. He knows what his car can do and does it. A guy who's driving a Mustang GT around and actually drives legally all the time is a poseur. He wants to give off the bad ass impression, but he's not the real deal.

You are lumping everyone in to little containers that fit neatly in your ideology. You don't have to drive like an idiot to enjoy something like a Mustang GT in your example.
Don't blame everyone else because you don't have any self control.
BTW- No offense, but your avatar is kind of creepy, who is it?
Not the subject...it just look like you took the worst picture of someone and zoomed in without them knowing about.
edit-Is it sentimental?
 
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