It's anyone following the flint water issue?

[werepossum]

It does in Sim City

+1

I think you need better sources:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...16/01/26/snyder-pr-fund-flint-water/79363674/

Trying to educate someone who gets his/her/its news from Madcow?

I bet you go berserk near wind farms.

 

[Pulsar]

I think you need better sources:


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...16/01/26/snyder-pr-fund-flint-water/79363674/

It's Indus. You're wasting your time.

 

[HomerJS]

Because President Obama sent 80 million dollars to fix the water situation and the Republican Governor instead of providing water to the people of Michigan is using that money to hire PR firms.

Yes you read that right. Source MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show.

Actually Rachel never said that. She said Governor hired a PR firm. Never said used government money.

So why is Snyder spending so much time worrying about his image instead of putting it into fixing the problem.

Maybe Snyder and his family should drink the same water as the residents of Flint since he is doing such a good job.

 

[momeNt]

This is turning out to be a true Erin Brokovich story. Who actually was the reporter that broke it?

 

[Linux23]

This was a good read and quick 5 minute video recap of the issue for anyone interested.

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arc...to-the-flint-river-was-not-about-saving-money

Also a petition to arrest Gov Snyder here:
http://michaelmoore.com/ArrestGovSnyder

 

[Linux23]

This is turning out to be a true Erin Brokovich story. Who actually was the reporter that broke it?

pretty much, except for corporate negligence, this was created by the people elected to public office.

 

[Genx87]

Just as soon as tubby turns himself into NYC authorities for consuming too much sugared beverages.

 

[ivwshane]

This was a good read and quick 5 minute video recap of the issue for anyone interested.

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arc...to-the-flint-river-was-not-about-saving-money

Also a petition to arrest Gov Snyder here:
http://michaelmoore.com/ArrestGovSnyder

Interesting if true. If it's not about saving money then clearly something else was in play. There would have to be some sort of kickback or as in the case with the PR firm, some good ol' boy dealings. Like Chris Christie did when he gave a big government contract to one of his boys, Snyder might have had the same intentions.
The comments in the article mentioned a fracking connection but I'm not familiar with flint enough to know whether or not it's a possibility.

Let's see if Snyder releases his 2013 emails.

 

[OverVolt]

Interesting if true. If it's not about saving money then clearly something else was in play. There would have to be some sort of kickback or as in the case with the PR firm, some good ol' boy dealings. Like Chris Christie did when he gave a big government contract to one of his boys, Snyder might have had the same intentions.
The comments in the article mentioned a fracking connection but I'm not familiar with flint enough to know whether or not it's a possibility.

Let's see if Snyder releases his 2013 emails.

Nobody gives a shit about their infrastructure. The water has to come from somewhere and if Detroit won't play ball and sell theirs and you have no other options except a contaminated source you're gonna have a bad time.

Whats the other option, nuke everyones house prices from orbit by cutting off water? People take for granted local reservoirs, natural gas, sewage, land fills, etc. Californians take heed, IMO.

 

[ivwshane]

Nobody gives a shit about their infrastructure. The water has to come from somewhere and if Detroit won't play ball and sell theirs and you have no other options except a contaminated source you're gonna have a bad time.

Whats the other option, nuke everyones house prices from orbit by cutting off water? People take for granted local reservoirs, natural gas, sewage, land fills, etc. Californians take heed, IMO.

You clearly didn't read the new links posted by Linux, did you?

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[Exterous]

Interesting if true.

A better source seems to confirm it:

McCormick, who now leads a different water authority, declined to be interviewed this week but released a statement saying that an April 15, 2013, email was an accurate copy of an internal document. “DWSD attempted to negotiate with Flint to continue to provide water service to the city,” she noted in her statement.

However a bipartisan group decided to continue on with the KWA plan:

Flint’s city council was not swayed. It voted 7 to 1 on the same day to approve the new pipeline. Mayor Dayne Walling also approved the plan, and emergency manager Ed Kurtz signed off.

Likely because:

According to a 2013 story by Michigan Radio, Kurtz said that Detroit could have raised rates at any time in the ensuing 29 years of an agreement, and Genesee County’s Drain Commissioner Jeff Wright noted that Flint residents were paying about six times the amount that water customers in nearby counties paid.

Which would follow an established history of the DWA raising rates by

large amounts in a single year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/flint-could-have-saved-money-without-using-corrosive-river-water-some-say/2016/01/26/0e4f0b1e-c455-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html

I would also rather see what an independent review of the proposal thought the cost would be instead trusting the claim made by someone who is basically acting as a sales person trying to prevent a customer from signing a deal with a competitor. I'd be pretty leery of signing a 30 year contract with no price increase controls too

 

[ivwshane]

A better source seems to confirm it:


However a bipartisan group decided to continue on with the KWA plan:


Likely because:


Which would follow an established history of the DWA raising rates by


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/flint-could-have-saved-money-without-using-corrosive-river-water-some-say/2016/01/26/0e4f0b1e-c455-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html

I would also rather see what an independent review of the proposal thought the cost would be instead trusting the claim made by someone who is basically acting as a sales person trying to prevent a customer from signing a deal with a competitor. I'd be pretty leery of signing a 30 year contract with no price increase controls too

Good points!

 

[werepossum]

You clearly didn't read the new links posted by Linux, did you?

A blog and a desperate plea to be relevant? Guilty.

A better source seems to confirm it:

However a bipartisan group decided to continue on with the KWA plan:

Likely because:

Which would follow an established history of the DWA raising rates by

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/flint-could-have-saved-money-without-using-corrosive-river-water-some-say/2016/01/26/0e4f0b1e-c455-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html

I would also rather see what an independent review of the proposal thought the cost would be instead trusting the claim made by someone who is basically acting as a sales person trying to prevent a customer from signing a deal with a competitor. I'd be pretty leery of signing a 30 year contract with no price increase controls too

Those are good points, but in any case, I applaud the decision to get away from Detroit water. It's the execution that was so badly flubbed. That's bad on the parts of the Council and two emergency managers, but it's doubly indicting on the part of the DEQ and to a slightly lesser extent the EPA, because these are the supposed professionals, the experts who prevent the unknowledgeable and/or dishonest from damaging public health. If anything, the DEQ helped prolong the problem, and the EPA did literally nothing except help prevent others from fixing the problem in a reasonable time frame. And I'd bet money that the DEQ actually had to review and sign off on the original project setting up the temporary water source. Had government functioned anywhere near satisfactorily, this problem would have been stopped before it was a problem. Admittedly the Council and two emergency managers screwed up, but that's why our taxes also support experts.

 

[Knowing]

Our well meaning government regulators also forgot to notice that they were bound by regulation to inspect the deepwater horizon and didn't, repeatedly. Remember, this is the same EPA that is responsible for polluting a river.

...and we have a new city with lead problems of their own.

It isn't clear to me what corrective action has been taken to remediate these shortcomings.

 

[Exterous]

but in any case, I applaud the decision to get away from Detroit water. .

Given the track history of mismanagement and poor finances of the DWA I am inclined to agree. I really hope we can get more information on WTF the DEQ was thinking in regards to this

and we have a new city with lead problems of their own

So the EPA knew about unsafe levels in June but is just now taking action? Given that Ohio is in the same EPA Region as Michigan it seems Susan Hedman now has an established track record of standing by while people drink water she knows to be unsafe. Nice to see that with her out of the way the EPA is actually reporting issues. Whether that is in response to job retention concerns or an actual culture change remains to be seen.

 

[HomerJS]

In January of 2015, when state officials were telling worried Flint residents their water was safe to drink, they also were arranging for coolers of purified water in Flint's State Office Building so employees wouldn't have to drink from the taps, according to state government e-mails released Thursday

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...state-workers-flint-got-clean-water/79470650/

 

[piasabird]

100 year old pipes and corrosive water. What a great recipe. Maybe I should have my water tested.

 

[HomerJS]

pretty much, except for corporate negligence, this was created by the people elected to public office.

It wasn't the people elected at the local level. They had their power taken from them by the state. Emergency managers out of Governors office made decision

 

[marincounty]

Our well meaning government regulators also forgot to notice that they were bound by regulation to inspect the deepwater horizon and didn't, repeatedly. Remember, this is the same EPA that is responsible for polluting a river.

...and we have a new city with lead problems of their own.

It isn't clear to me what corrective action has been taken to remediate these shortcomings.

The govt is not perfect. It needs help from responsible citizens and companies.
The companies running the Deepwater Horizon failed to run it responsibly and caused a disaster. This is not the govt's fault.

And the polluted river, caused by contractors hired by the EPA to try and clean up a mess left behind by irresponsible miners. The state just let the pollution sit there as they couldn't afford to properly clean it up. What is the right wing solution? Just let all of the pollution accumulate. Right wingers never want to hold any company responsible for pollution. Many righties call for the elimination of the EPA- that will really help, not.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Wow TV news report this morning, woman has 3 kids
1st painful fragile bones from lead poisoning. He fell off a bike a broke a wrist
2nd had painful bones & joints another know effect of lead poisoning. No treatment is known. I think he is 13. His white blood count is 4 and cannot be increased to this day. Not sure about what value is good but it sounded strange for a teen
3rd is 17 years old his teeth are "crumbling" from lead exposure. Only treatment is dentures his bones his bones not be strong enough for implants.
Mom has reduced liver function.

The lawsuits are going to be massive for this f-up.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the current amount of lead in the water is too high for the filters that were handed out to handle for more than a "short period" per a recent test.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This is turning out to be a true Erin Brokovich story. Who actually was the reporter that broke it?

You do know she was a real person with a movie based on her & events she was involved in

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Brockovich

 

[werepossum]

It wasn't the people elected at the local level. They had their power taken from them by the state. Emergency managers out of Governors office made decision

No, the local elected officials made the decision. The emergency manager just had to sign off on it. However, when the council voted to switch back, a different emergency manager refused to sign off on it.

The decision to use Flint River water was not even necessarily fatally flawed in and of itself. With proper treatment, it could have been used successfully.

 

[werepossum]

Wow TV news report this morning, woman has 3 kids
1st painful fragile bones from lead poisoning. He fell off a bike a broke a wrist
2nd had painful bones & joints another know effect of lead poisoning. No treatment is known. I think he is 13. His white blood count is 4 and cannot be increased to this day. Not sure about what value is good but it sounded strange for a teen
3rd is 17 years old his teeth are "crumbling" from lead exposure. Only treatment is dentures his bones his bones not be strong enough for implants.
Mom has reduced liver function.

The lawsuits are going to be massive for this f-up.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the current amount of lead in the water is too high for the filters that were handed out to handle for more than a "short period" per a recent test.

That's what I suspected. The filter media life is going to be measured in days rather than in weeks or months. Unfortunately, I suspect the water will continue to percolate through, just lead won't be removed.

 

[bradly1101]

Many in power are Teflon to charges like these. Perhaps Snyder should have been arrested, but his crimes are of greed, negligence, and stupidity. He didn't seek out to harm the people of Flint, so I doubt that they'll incarcerate him.

This incident (including the increase in legionella) showcases the fragility of the water supply. The rivers used to run clear, now they're just murky, chemical, fertilizer, algae, and whatever ridden "water"ways. When it floods, you see a sea of brownish-gray from sewage seeping in. We get out what we put in.