It's anyone following the flint water issue?

[Exterous]

Apparently the governor isn't interested in getting this problem solved.

Uh...Flint switched back to DWA\GLWA water in October and the lead levels have dropped as verified by the same researchers who reported the issue. Don't let facts get in the way of your desired narrative though

http://flintwaterstudy.org/2015/12/lead-testing-results-from-two-worst-case-homes-in-flint-before-and-after-water-switch/

And the EPA had its own role to play in the delay:

Our FOIA revealed that in early July, Hedman actually apologized to Flint Mayor Dayne Walling for Miguel Del Toral’s memo detailing the imminent peril of Flint’s children, and further said that:

When the report has been revised and fully vetted by EPA management, the findings and recommendations will be shared with the City and MDEQ and MDEQ will be responsible for following up with the City.

EPA also silenced Del Toral, and stood by as outsiders in communication with Hedman publicly discredited him.

When was Flint Mayor Dayne Walling finally informed by EPA that Del Toral and his memo were credible? In early October 2015. By that point, the validity of the Del Toral memo had been fully vetted in the rising blood lead of Flint’s children. EPA’s long awaited legal analysis was finally released in early November 2015-it essentially exonerated MDEQ.

Timeline starting in July:
July: DEQ\DHHS suppresses\disregards initial signs of lead
July: EPA tells Mayor to not rely on Del Toral's report
Mid-September: Independent research shows lead in water
Early-October: EPA agrees that there is lead in the water
Mid-October: City switches from river water to Detroit water

So it took one month for the city to switch back once the independent research was released. (And it still took the EPA a couple more weeks to finally get their report out)

 

[ivwshane]

So the water is fine now?

 

[Exterous]

So the water is fine now?

All testing done to this points shows that it is. However there is a chance that the corrosive water damaged pipelines that contain lead so the recommendation is to use lead filters until extensive testing can corroborate those findings.

Interesting note about water filters - there are often chemicals left behind from the manufacturing process in levels that would violate federal laws for leaching into drinking water. They get around this by telling you to flush the filter with x gallons to remove those left over chemicals. Levels still too high? Raise the recommendation by 1 gallon of water and test again (Source: I worked at a place that tested water filters against federal guidelines)

So if the filter tells you to flush it with 3 gallons of water you should probably do it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Stipulating that the current generation of senior citizens are more predisposed to this mentality doesn't imply they are all that way.

Makes no difference. Your implied that older people have the defect more than the young so you will need to vote for cherubim Rubio.

 

[ivwshane]

It looks like a state of emergency has finally been called.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N1500KN

 

[HomerJS]

All testing done to this points shows that it is. However there is a chance that the corrosive water damaged pipelines that contain lead so the recommendation is to use lead filters until extensive testing can corroborate those findings.

Interesting note about water filters - there are often chemicals left behind from the manufacturing process in levels that would violate federal laws for leaching into drinking water. They get around this by telling you to flush the filter with x gallons to remove those left over chemicals. Levels still too high? Raise the recommendation by 1 gallon of water and test again (Source: I worked at a place that tested water filters against federal guidelines)

So if the filter tells you to flush it with 3 gallons of water you should probably do it.

So how are you going to flush the toxins out of the kids who have consumed the water to date? What about the permanent physical damage?

 

[DrDoug]

It looks like a state of emergency has finally been called.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N1500KN

Wow, a GOP "money saving" move that fucks things up so bad that it requires federal emergency assistance and way more money than what would have been saved if they had just thought this out a bit better and did the right thing in the first place. Nope, gotta save money now!! Snyder has enjoyed touting his takeovers of the two cities as successfully getting them back on a responsible financial track but once shit hits the fan then suddenly he don't know shit about anything. I like how Snyder is trying to duck responsibility for this... what a leader! The GOP philosophy of cheaper is always better, no matter the consequences, is proven wrong. Again.

Snyder: "Help me, Obi-Bama! You're my only hope!"

 

[Exterous]

The GOP philosophy of cheaper is always better, no matter the consequences, is proven wrong. Again.

Yes and the Decomcratic polices (and the soaring murder rates) were such a boon for Flint and Detroit. But if you want to ignore all the facts about the water case and continue to wallow in your partisan ignorance I can't stop you

 

[senseamp]

Small government crew can just buy bottled water.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Makes no difference. Your implied that older people have the defect more than the young so you will need to vote for cherubim Rubio.

no, that's illogical.

 

[DrDoug]

Yes and the Decomcratic polices (and the soaring murder rates) were such a boon for Flint and Detroit. But if you want to ignore all the facts about the water case and continue to wallow in your partisan ignorance I can't stop you

I'll just drop this here for you to go ahead and defend:

Public never told, but investigators suspected Flint River tie to Legionnaires' in 2014

Go ahead, let's hear the excuses we all know you're ready to deliver. Conservatives are never wrong, are they? It's always the evil (or stupid) Democrats...

BTW, I'm not a Democrat.

 

[Indus]

Republicans: Austerity is great for America

Democrats: Austerity sucks

Common sense: Austerity kills people

 

[TheSlamma]

Villains who have poisoned the water supply

Joker - Gotham
Killer Croc - Gotham
EPA - Silverton CO
Freedom Industries - W. Va.
Madame K. - Gotham
Viper - Washington D.C.
Rick Snyder - Flint, MI
Sweet Tooth - Gotham

 

[dealcorn]

I initially missed this thread. The following is a repost.

Let's Poisen Children How does it serve the public interest than folks at the EPA and local government who knew of Flint's lead poisoned water supply and remained silent are generally immune from criminal prosecution? Am I correct that the poisoning was first disclosed by private sector doctors?

 

[ivwshane]

I initially missed this thread. The following is a repost.

Let's Poisen Children How does it serve the public interest than folks at the EPA and local government who knew of Flint's lead poisoned water supply and remained silent are generally immune from criminal prosecution? Am I correct that the poisoning was first disclosed by private sector doctors?

Here is the timeline:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/health/flint-water-crisis-timeline/

It appears that government officials new of issues with the water as far as corrisivity is concerned. It's a little unclear of when the government knew about the lead.

While some blame can be levied at the EPA, it appears the majority of fault lies with the local/state government.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/19/epa-flint-water/79022506/

 

[RampantAndroid]

Apparently the governor isn't interested in getting this problem solved. From what I've heard he had said that he is sending people door to door to hand out water and filters. The water they are handing out? Why it's the water that's been donated. How many filters have they handed out since this issue came up? About 13k out of 100k residents.

The governor certainly can't be blamed for creating this mess but he can certainly be blamed for his incompetence on handling it.

From everything I have read the issue really stems from a single, tragically difficult issue to find. In 10% of tested Flint households water at the tap was found to contain high levels of lead. If the statistics are correct (which is a tough call. DEQ studies show lower levels. DHHS and third parties show 10%. Some reports question the 10% but do not give percentages), then even random testing would likely not show an overall lead issue. If there is no lead at the plant, no lead at the interim testing sites and no lead at the faucets does that show there is a lead issue?

If it affects around 10%, then 13k out of 100k having filters sounds...about right. Assuming the filters are going to affected homes/areas.

 

[Ns1]

I saw this pic today of how the water allegedly used to look. Is this accurate?

 

[ivwshane]

I saw this pic today of how the water allegedly used to look. Is this accurate?

Of the pictures I've seen, pretty close.

 

[1prophet]

Republicans: Austerity is great for America

Democrats: Austerity sucks

Common sense: Austerity kills people

This is not a Democrat or Republican Problem but an American Problem,

• You have multi-trillion dollar unnecessary wars
• You let your corporations use whatever loopholes they can not to hire Americans or hide their money overseas, yet these same corporations cry to tax payer funded American courts and government for protection when they believe their rights are infringed.
• You sign away the future middle class and your rights through more and more free trade agreements, example government can't require country of origin on meats anymore.
• You only come out to vote every 4 maybe every 2 years for national and some state elections but most of you don't attend meetings or know who your local politicians are, that is were most of your problems start and then end up in Washington or your state capitals as they move to higher office.
• You outsource your jobs by the millions because costs of hiring Americans interferes with your profits, yet you demand the best pay, healthcare, vacation, sick leave, maternity, working conditions, etc. as long as someone else is paying for it,
• likewise you bring in illegals by the millions so you can save a buck

And instead of addressing these issues and others like them you rather point fingers at each other while America falters one municipality at a time.

 

[Exterous]

Conservatives are never wrong, are they? It's always the evil (or stupid) Democrats...

Your blatant ignorance is showing again since you seem to want to ascribe political preferences where they don't exist. I've been very critical of traditional conservative values here on AT like certain tax stances, gay marriage, and education. More specifically I have been exceedingly critical of Snyder's Charter school initiatives, teacher performance evaluations and the Emergency Manager program.

Regardless, that doesn't mean one should confuse 'excuses' with 'focus the blame on the people responsible' which is what you seem to be doing. Agencies =/ the Governor so just because 'agencies know' doesn't mean the Governor knew. There is a large body of evidence that shows certain state agencies below the governors' office level worked very hard to cover up and discredit the lead issue. Agencies knew there was a lead problem and that is indefensible and those responsible should be punished. Agencies knew there was a Legionnaires problem. That is indefensible and those responsible should be punished. So far there has been nothing released that shows the information reached the Governor so, unless that information exists, it would seem to be a much more valid endeavor to go after those who lied and mislead other agencies (local, state AND federal) and the public

But maybe you want to ignore all of those emails and phone calls being released and ignore the actual perpetrators that are specifically enumerated on record to instead focus on a person who doesn't appear to be responsible for no other reason other than that he has a certain letter attached to his name.

I mean - do you even know who Dan Wyatt, Steve Busch, Brad Wurfel or Susan Hedman are? If you did you would know that this issue spans political party lines

BTW, I'm not a Democrat.

What - you want a cookie or something? That doesn't excuse going after the wrong people. Focus on those who did the damage. If something comes out that shows the Governor knew early on then he should pay. Until then I prefer to focus on those proven to have done the harm instead of joining some idiotic political crusade

 

[Exterous]

While some blame can be levied at the EPA, it appears the majority of fault lies with the local/state government.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/19/epa-flint-water/79022506/

Honestly it bothers me quite a bit that more ire isn't being levied towards the EPA. (This is not an attempt to absolve local\state agencies of their obvious role in this just that the EPA had the ability to bring this issue to light much much earlier but failed to do so. In reality their actions likely prolonged the issue)

EPA did its job

Really?

The head of EPA’s Region 5 covering the Midwest told The Detroit News last week her department was aware since April that Flint water was not being treated with chemicals to prevent lead from leaching — a situation that its water expert said would put residents at risk for contamination. The agency did not alert the public to those concerns.

When someone at the EPA grew a conscience and tried to warn the public what did the EPA do?

Hedman actually apologized to Flint Mayor Dayne Walling for Miguel Del Toral’s memo detailing the imminent peril of Flint’s children, and further said that:

When the report has been revised and fully vetted by EPA management, the findings and recommendations will be shared with the City and MDEQ and MDEQ will be responsible for following up with the City. [For reference that report came out 5 months later and after independent testing showed dangerous lead levels. Somehow the independent researchers were able to get the results out in weeks while the EPA took more than half a year with its report]

EPA also silenced Del Toral, and stood by as outsiders in communication with Hedman publicly discredited him.

Specifically in an email Hedman stated that it would be premature to draw any conclusions from the draft and refused to provide the Flint Mayor with the draft until it was 'ready' despite his asking multiple times.

So the EPA's job is to be complicit in the poisoning of the water supply?

 

[boomerang]

The poor decisions in this case were all made by either elected Democrats, agencies headed up by appointed Democrats or a Democrat appointed to an Emergency Manager position. If Michigan had a Democrat as Governor, the story would have been swept away. But it doesn't so there is a scapegoat that the Democrat Party and an oh so willing press are excited to excoriate. Thankfully Snyder isn't going to accept a burden for something he played an extremely minor part in. That being appointing a Democrat EM to keep happy a city that leans hugely Democrat.

Flint Is Not a Republican Scandal

Because the Democratic emergency manager was appointed by a Republican governor, the people from whom one expects cheap theatrics of this sort have declared the situation in Flint to be a Republican scandal.

Not so fast.

Read on if you wish.

There is no point in continuing the thread if leftists are not willing to accept their failures in this situation. And we absolutely know that they are not willing. We are seeing the same behavior we always see when leftist policies and practices fail. That being to blame others.

 

[fskimospy]

The poor decisions in this case were all made by either elected Democrats, agencies headed up by appointed Democrats or a Democrat appointed to an Emergency Manager position. If Michigan had a Democrat as Governor, the story would have been swept away. But it doesn't so there is a scapegoat that the Democrat Party and an oh so willing press are excited to excoriate. Thankfully Snyder isn't going to accept a burden for something he played an extremely minor part in. That being appointing a Democrat EM to keep happy a city that leans hugely Democrat.

Flint Is Not a Republican Scandal

Read on if you wish.

There is no point in continuing the thread if leftists are not willing to accept their failures in this situation. And we absolutely know that they are not willing. We are seeing the same behavior we always see when leftist policies and practices fail. That being to blame others.

Lol.

'It's not the governor's fault, it's the fault of the people he appointed!'

'Leftists always try to blame others'

You are so easily played it is hilarious.

 

[waggy]

This is not a Democrat or Republican Problem but an American Problem,

• You have multi-trillion dollar unnecessary wars
• You let your corporations use whatever loopholes they can not to hire Americans or hide their money overseas, yet these same corporations cry to tax payer funded American courts and government for protection when they believe their rights are infringed.
• You sign away the future middle class and your rights through more and more free trade agreements, example government can't require country of origin on meats anymore.
• You only come out to vote every 4 maybe every 2 years for national and some state elections but most of you don't attend meetings or know who your local politicians are, that is were most of your problems start and then end up in Washington or your state capitals as they move to higher office.
• You outsource your jobs by the millions because costs of hiring Americans interferes with your profits, yet you demand the best pay, healthcare, vacation, sick leave, maternity, working conditions, etc. as long as someone else is paying for it,
• likewise you bring in illegals by the millions so you can save a buck

And instead of addressing these issues and others like them you rather point fingers at each other while America falters one municipality at a time.

and we have a winner!

It's the whole history of the area. People failed to properly account for the money coming in and did not spend it wisely.

then people in charge of the water tried to fleece those using it. putting others in a bad situation. instead of cutting other things to continue to use safe water they made a stupid decision to use river water.

There were so many people in power that contributed to this and very few said it was a bad idea. those that did were ignored.

it's a sad situation and amazing that it actually happened. though i gotta say after reading more about that area i am not really surprised.

 

[Genx87]

How much of our water system in this country uses lead piping? Anybody have a clue? I am shocked by this situation that there is the ability to leach lead from water pipes in the first place.