Its been a while since we have had an Israel thread.

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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
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As maybe chucky2 gets to the heart of this thread, by maybe asking what is an American, what is a German, what is a Japanese, what is an Israeli. and what is an Arab? As if its something immutably hard wired into their genetic national culture and never never never subject to change?

When Human history teaches exactly the opposite lesson. That change is always inevitable. Pardon me, chucky2, when I did not join the set of American cheer leaders during the Vietnam war. Nor did I back the phony baloney reasoning behind the our war in Afghanistan, or the GWB phony sale man's reasons to invade Iraq in 2003. Maybe I was in a huge American minority at the time, and even more importantly I could have been proven wrong, if American leaders had been even semi-competent in understanding winning the peace involves helping make the peoples of an occupied nation lives better. As instead the USA has been recently been stuck on stupid, by thinking we can set up a unpopular puppet government. Nor in the broader sweep of human history, as might is right never worked long for any government. Or we can also talk about Russia, Germany, and Japan, post WW1. Who saw their chances to advance as nations. As Germany and Japan did it first. And after a decade or so Might makes right, the governments of Germany and Japan were wildly popular with their own people. But when the tide of war shifted, in only the last 2 years of a decade or better of unbroken successes, it was too late for either all the national cheer leading in the world, when they were on the wrong side of history. Or we could talk about the Soviet Union, our ally in WW2, becoming the post WW2 axis of evil during the next 45 years cold war. Ultimately won by not firing a shot, because a capitalist economy proved superior to a communistic economy, despite all the communistic cheer leading to the contrary. As I sadly observe, the America I love is also on the wrong side of history and our economy is going down the toilet as a result of being on the wrong side of history. As the clear lesson of history is that the nation that refuses to compromise and demands it all, ends up totally losing in the end. As smarter nations take advantages of changes.

Normally Israel would barely hit the US radar screen as the most hated nation in a random region. But when Israel happens to be located in the mid-east, the most important oil artery in the world, the degree of difficulty and US stupidity rises exponentially. Not only for the USA but for Israel too. And when any possibly future for an Israeli long term future well may well involve on Israel supporting a two State solution. Otherwise any long term Israeli future looks rather grim. Especially when the recent UN general assembly vote totally isolated both Israel and the USA as clearly on the wrong side of history.

But chucky2, it ain't over until the fat lady sings, and I want to envision better a better Israeli government that supports a 2 State solution, than can then transform Israel to a regional neighbor that is an asset rather than a total enemy to its neighbors in the mid-east.

And then you, chucky2, arrogantly asks me to submit a concrete prediction, when I see only a somewhat hopeful Israeli Election result that may or may not advance peace in the mid-east.

As for EK, who sees only failed predictions on my part, when I say the current Israeli strategy as unsustainable. As I can only say to EK, he has to be the biggest fool on this forum to maintain Israel is in a better position than it was before. As the present government of Israel has been hemorrhaging world support at an unprecedented and accelerating rate.

I was going to respond to this...then I decided eating some graham crackers and milk was a better idea. It's like you read my post, and used it as a totally unrelated springboard to go Captain Insano.

Bravo.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
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As for EK, who sees only failed predictions on my part, when I say the current Israeli strategy as unsustainable. As I can only say to EK, he has to be the biggest fool on this forum to maintain Israel is in a better position than it was before. As the present government of Israel has been hemorrhaging world support at an unprecedented and accelerating rate.
You have made this same vague proclamation that the "Israeli strategy is unsustainable" for years now, LL, and it's no more true now than when you first began spouting it. Apparently Israel's strategy is going to be sustainable for at least some years to come because even with Bibi's recent losses he is still going to remain in power so little is going to change. He might be more amenable to bargaining with the Palestinains but what good is that going to do when the Pals don't show up at the bargaining table in the first place because they will make completely unreasonable demands?

As long as you continue to ignore that the Pals don't actually want a reasonable deal with Israel all of your bluster in P&N will appear as nothing more than your usual blindered bias.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,133
220
106
What I'm not surprised at is that Israel has yet to attack Iran despite various hawks over the past few years claiming certain near-future dates.


Not gonna happen unless we give them a green light ... USA will spank em hard if they do something stupid like that with out our blessing.

We say jump the question is always "HOW HIGH?"
 
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