It's done- Healthcare bill passes

[senseamp]

Polls last week showed 2/3 of the electorate against the bill, yet you somehow have confidence that the margins will reverse simply because the bill is now law? Nothing has changed except that what the public hates has now been forced on them, but somehow you think that will make us like it - that the problem was the bill wasn't "actual" enough.

Any valid reason to believe that? Any evidence to believe that the previous polling wasn't "scientific" other than that the majority of Americans disagreed with you? After all, I'm merely predicting that current conditions will continue; you're predicting that an additional third of Americans will suddenly find government's boot as comfy on their collective neck as you apparently find it. The media (FoxNews of course being the exception) has been beating this drum on behalf of Obama and the Dems for many months; why would you now assume their message would gain traction?

If Republicans are convinced that 2/3rds of this country will want to return to days of insurance companies rescinding coverage and denying it based on pre-existing conditions, I strongly encourage them to run on platform of repealing this bill. It's one thing to be against something because you are waiting for something better, now the burden is on those who want to repeal this bill to convince Americans that going back is better than this law.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Polls last week showed 2/3 of the electorate against the bill ...

from: Pew Research


edit: and IIRC, some polls were essentially 45-45 as far as approval





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[cubeless]

from: Pew Research


edit: and IIRC, some polls were essentially 45-45 as far as approval





--

except that that isn't 'do you want it to pass?'...

and this thing is still far from over... there's a big state battle and such that will need to be sorted out...

 

[nageov3t]

If Republicans are convinced that 2/3rds of this country will want to return to days of insurance companies rescinding coverage and denying it based on pre-existing conditions, I strongly encourage them to run on platform of repealing this bill. It's one thing to be against something because you are waiting for something better, now the burden is on those who want to repeal this bill to convince Americans that going back is better than this law.

even most mainstream republicans were in favor of regulations regarding existing condition clauses... the congressional GOP rally cry was "let's start over," not "let's do nothing."

 

[Leyawiin]

About damn time we inch towards joining the rest of the first world.

 

[Hacp]

About damn time we inch towards joining the rest of the first world.

Yes, joining everyone else in mediocrity while more opportunistic countries take our Number 1 spot.

 

[Carmen813]

Yes, joining everyone else in mediocrity while more opportunistic countries take our Number 1 spot.

A lot of people in the world are significantly happier than Americans. At least, that's what the research shows.

 

[Hacp]

A lot of people in the world are significantly happier than Americans. At least, that's what the research shows.

Who cares about happier? Is happiness going to create jobs? No!

 

[MiniDoom]

About damn time we inch towards joining the rest of the first world.

the difference is, we're a nation of processed/steroid/antibiotic injected food eating, obese, diabetic plagued, lazy, degenerates. enjoy paying for those heart transplants.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

except that that isn't 'do you want it to pass?'...

and this thing is still far from over... there's a big state battle and such that will need to be sorted out...

Yes, let us know when you've sorted out that big state battle in your mind

And hey, repeal the civil rights amendment and roe v. wade while your in their

 

[senseamp]

even most mainstream republicans were in favor of regulations regarding existing condition clauses... the congressional GOP rally cry was "let's start over," not "let's do nothing."

"Start over" means we go back to allowing discriminating based on preexisting conditions and rescission when you get sick, and then maybe ban it again, maybe not depending on how legislative process plays out.
They want to repeal this bill, not keep the good parts and repeal the bad, but to repeal the whole bill.
THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

[Acanthus]

"Start over" means we go back to allowing discriminating based on preexisting conditions and rescission when you get sick, and then maybe ban it again, maybe not depending on how legislative process plays out.
They want to repeal this bill, not keep the good parts and repeal the bad, but to repeal the whole bill.
THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

They wanted to start over all the way back in '91 too.

It was just obstructionism then too.

 

[senseamp]

A vote to repeal this law will be a vote to allow for rescission and pre-existing condition denial again. No ifs ands or buts. That is what repeal of this law as a whole, which is the stated goal of Republicans, will accomplish. Then you "start over" with insurance companies being able to drop you when you are sick being the status quo.

 

[Hacp]

A vote to repeal this law will be a vote to allow for rescission and pre-existing condition denial again. No ifs ands or buts. That is what repeal of this law as a whole, which is the stated goal of Republicans, will accomplish. Then you "start over" with insurance companies being able to drop you when you are sick being the status quo.

The question I have is why Democrats group reform and health care for all? Is it not possible to have a law making it easier for people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance and at the same time deny the health care entitlement?

 

[Analogsoul]

Ok here's a brief history lesson of health care reform for the past 20 years:

Democrats: "We need health care reform"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Give us a majority and we'll do it better"
Democrats: "Done, you have majority of both houses"

12 years later, health care is irrefutably worse in every respect for every single person in the United States

Democrats: "We need health care reform"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Americans are tired of partisan politics!"
Democrats: "OK, let's compromise"
Republicans: "OK, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done. Time to end debate"
Republicans: "Too liberal, we need more debate, we will filibuster to prevent you from voting"
Democrats: "OK, we'll vote--sorry guys, debate is ended. It's time to vote on the bill"
Republicans: "Too liberal, we vote no"
Democrats: "OK, it passed anyway--sorry guys."

One month later

Republicans: "Wait--wait, OK, we have less of a minority now so we can filibuster forever."
Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"
Republicans: "But we have enough to filibuster"
Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You haven't listened to our ideas! You've shut us out of this whole process!"
Democrats: "Sorry, show us your proposal"
Republicans: "Smaller government"
Democrats: "That's not very specific"
Republicans: "OK, here's our detailed proposal--It's our common-sense ideas we spent 12 years not enacting"
Democrats: "OK, we'll add a bunch more of your ideas"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You included all these back-room deals"
Democrats: "OK, we'll get rid of the back-room deals"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're using obscure procedural tricks to eliminate the back-room deals!"
Democrats: "No, we're using reconciliation, which both parties have used dozens of times for much larger bills"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're pressuring Congressmen to vote for your bill! Scandal!"
Democrats: "It's called 'whipping', it's been done since 1789"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Can't you see the American people don't want this?"
Democrats: "This bill is mildly unpopular (40-50%), doing nothing (your proposal) is extraordinarily unpopular (4-6%)"
Republicans: "We need to start over! We need to start over!"
Democrats: "We should really consider voting--"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Start over! Clean slate! Common-sense! America!"


This is from Digg http://digg.com/politics/Congress_Passes_Historic_Health_Care_Reform?t=31712604#c31712604

 

[senseamp]

The question I have is why Democrats group reform and health care for all? Is it not possible to have a law making it easier for people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance and at the same time deny the health care entitlement?

Actually it's Republicans who group reform and health care for all when they say they want to repeal the whole bill and start over. Notice they aren't saying they just want to repeal health care for all, they want to repeal ALL of the reforms including pre-existing condition denial ban and rescission and "start over." Starting over means returning to today's status quo, which allows for pre-existing condition denials and rescission.

 

[Hacp]

Actually it's Republicans who group reform and health care for all when they say they want to repeal the whole bill and start over. Notice they aren't saying they just want to repeal health care for all, they want to repeal ALL of the reforms including pre-existing condition denial ban and rescission and "start over." Starting over means returning to today's status quo, which allows for pre-existing condition denials and rescission.

Last time I checked, it was democrats that wanted health care for all. If democrats wanted an affordable bill, they would have scratched health care for all.

 

[bfdd]

Yawn... this will do nothing and it will still be expensive for most. This was one of the stupidest debates in a long time. You have one side pushing for socialized medicine and the other demonizing it, both leaving out the fact we already have socialized medicine.

 

[senseamp]

Last time I checked, it was democrats that wanted health care for all. If democrats wanted an affordable bill, they would have scratched health care for all.

That is now in the books, now Republicans want to "start over" and allow for rescission and pre-existing condition denial by scrapping the whole bill. That is what they are offering to voters in November. Vote for us, and we'll let insurers drop your coverage when you get sick.

 

[colonel]

middle class victory

 

[Hacp]

middle class victory

Haha are you serious? This creates an entitlement for the bottom of the rung 30 million and does very little to help the middle class except siphon jobs to other countries.

 

[her209]

Haha are you serious? This creates an entitlement for the bottom of the rung 30 million and does very little to help the middle class except siphon jobs to other countries.

The "bottom of the rung 30 million" already get health care coverage through Medicaid.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

middle class victory

How do you figure?

 

[Hacp]

The "bottom of the rung 30 million" already get health care coverage through Medicaid.

I'm not including them.

 

[senseamp]

I'm not including them.

So these aren't the bottom rung, they would be some sort of different class, somewhere in the middle, if only there was a name for that class of people...