It's NOT a network problem!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spidey07]

I honestly don't get it. It's not a network problem. it really isn't.

So your web servers aren't balancing the load correctly? not a network problem. What makes you think the load balancers have anything whatsoever to do with how the front end communicates to the app layer? Nothing. Not a network problem.

Stop asking my guys to run all kinds of traces for your fubarred application.

Stop asking for the configuration files of all the gear involved because you have no idea what it means anyway.

Stop calling meeting after meeting after meeting blaming it on network architecture.

Fix your god damned application you brain dead morons.

It's not a network problem.

Stop asking for packet traces because you dion't understand them anyway. My guys sent you a 2 gigabyte trace file because you asked for it. not my departments fault you are too stupid to understand it.

It's not a network problam. Fix your god damned application.

 

[InlineFive]

Did you settle down and start working for one organization?

 

[Fardringle]

It sounds like someone had a good day at work.

You could always offer to MAKE a network problem for them, Spidey, since it seems as if they really want to have one...

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Fardringle
It sounds like someone had a good day at work.

You could always offer to MAKE a network problem for them, Spidey, since it seems as if they really want to have one...

I'm sick and tired of "it's a network problem"

Since when has it EVER been a network problem? These people have 10 years plus of experience and yet they still wave their hand "it has to be a network problem otherwise it wouldn't behave this way"

NO YOU FRICKING MORON....DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU HOW YOUR APPLICATION IS OPERATING???? YOU ARE THE PEOPLE THAT WROTE THE DAMNED THING AND I TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh no....It couldn't possibly be the fact they don't have a fargin' clue about computing.

"well why do the load balancers not show even distribution of hits for the front end web servers?"

GAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Do I really have to explain load balancing to you frickin' morons for the 3rd dozenth time???? What part of "the client talks to the load balancers, the load balancers then nail the connection to your web servers....they are not involved in any way in the communications between the app layer and the front end."

Just how hard is that simple fact to understand.

OK, repeat after me....load balancers are not part of the conversation between the web and app layer. Fix your damned application.

 

[ScottMac]

Of course it's a network problem ... the sooner you learn that, the sooner we can all get along.

Developers of applications and "certain" operating systems are far to concientious to put out flakey code , the the code running in all the appliance boxes has been debugged completely ... beta tested for months!

And, of course, you can rule out any "open source" apps or OS, they're perfect, thousands of people worked so hard to make 'em perfect ... so just don't even think of looking at them as a source of problems.

So, they're you go; indisputable proof! Thousands against a few, you must be wrong; it *must* be a problem with *your* network implementation.

Read a book or somethin' OK? Try to get a clue .... man, you hardware people just can't accept blame properly. Sore Losers.

You know, accepting that you have the problem is 50% of the journey to resolution ....






Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Scott

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
Of course it's a network problem ... the sooner you learn that, the sooner we can all get along.

Developers of applications and "certain" operating systems are far to concientious to put out flakey code , the the code running in all the appliance boxes has been debugged completely ... beta tested for months!

And, of course, you can rule out any "open source" apps or OS, they're perfect, thousands of people worked so hard to make 'em perfect ... so just don't even think of looking at them as a source of problems.

So, they're you go; indisputable proof! Thousands against a few, you must be wrong; it *must* be a problem with *your* network implementation.

Read a book or somethin' OK? Try to get a clue .... man, you hardware people just can't accept blame properly. Sore Losers.

You know, accepting that you have the problem is 50% of the journey to resolution ....






Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Scott

Please don't associate these rants to the hardware people.

 

[bsobel]

Since when has it EVER been a network problem?

More often than people think actually (not throwing gas, Im sure it's not in yours). But with NetBackup and BackupExec we have special tools to prove it's a network problem, it's amazing the amount of bad cables, 1/2 duplex, random packet loss, etc certain environments have. Invariably we identify it and the SLA's return.

Bill

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z

Originally posted by: ScottMac
Of course it's a network problem ... the sooner you learn that, the sooner we can all get along.

Developers of applications and "certain" operating systems are far to concientious to put out flakey code , the the code running in all the appliance boxes has been debugged completely ... beta tested for months!

And, of course, you can rule out any "open source" apps or OS, they're perfect, thousands of people worked so hard to make 'em perfect ... so just don't even think of looking at them as a source of problems.

So, they're you go; indisputable proof! Thousands against a few, you must be wrong; it *must* be a problem with *your* network implementation.

Read a book or somethin' OK? Try to get a clue .... man, you hardware people just can't accept blame properly. Sore Losers.

You know, accepting that you have the problem is 50% of the journey to resolution ....






Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Scott

Please don't associate these rants to the hardware people.

/me taps ch33zw1z's Sarcasm Meter

 

[n0cmonkey]

App guy: It's a network problem!
Net guy: It's an OS problem!
OS guy: It's a hardware problem!
Hardware guy: It's an app problem!

Around here it doesn't matter, it's always my problem.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
App guy: It's a network problem!
Net guy: It's an OS problem!
OS guy: It's a hardware problem!
Hardware guy: It's an app problem!

Around here it doesn't matter, it's always my problem.

likewise. You have one of those rotating hats too?

"network issue? Just a minute" <rotates hat 30 degrees> " Ok what seems to be the problem?"

 

[bsobel]

/me taps ch33zw1z's Sarcasm Meter

The meter is fine, it's the network connection to the remote display thats down

 

[Thor86]

Hehe, I feel for ya spidey. We just deployed some Coyotepoint loadbalancers and boy was it a flop at the beginning. Of course all the developers blamed the loadbalancers, and to this day, any webserver issues automatically be assumed as loadbalancer or network issues.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
App guy: It's a network problem!
Net guy: It's an OS problem!
OS guy: It's a hardware problem!
Hardware guy: It's an app problem!

Around here it doesn't matter, it's always my problem.

Around here it's always *your* problem too

 

[cmetz]

spidey07, it's not about who's problem it is; it's about who solves the problem for the user/customer.

A VP at a place I used to work had a saying: "results, not excuses." Not my problem, not my job, these are not phrases that make you popular with the people who pay you. And they don't necessarily get you off the hook, either. PHB's don't understand anything other than their problem is not yet solved. Many PHBs will quite deliberately drag everyone they can into the picture hoping that someone will simply cause the problem to get fixed.

When it's really obvious that it's not your problem and not your job but you got it fixed for them (esp. if you never actually say anything about it not being your duty), that makes you the go-to guy, the hero. The guy who has a lot more clout with the bill-payers.

 

[spidey07]

cmetz,

I know and I aware of that. I guess I'm just tired of meeting after meeting where I have to disect their application and point out what is going on wrong with it and explaining how computing works to people that are supposed to be highly skilled professionals.

I'm actually telling them what is wrong with their application architecture.

But these people are wasting my guys times and my departements resources. I'm more than happy to help or offer up some people to help, but their are other priorities. And I expect the other directors/architects to do their part.

I should NOT have to give a dissentary on how high availability computing is done and in turn have my dissentary questioned by applications guys that don't understand. It puts my group in a very defensive stance. It's all good, I've got the 8th layer down as well.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: bsobel

/me taps ch33zw1z's Sarcasm Meter

The meter is fine, it's the network connection to the remote display thats down

lol, j00 guys r crazeh.

 

[ktwebb]

It does get comical when the bodies start to add up under the bus. I got out of that "always a network issue" mentality early on as I was embarassed a couple of times when our app or hardware was at fault. I will say this, there have been many, many, many more times when we asked, not demanded, the network guys if they could look at this or that. It is ALWAYS "Nothing has changed here, it's not a network problem" and then magically the problem went away 20 minutes later. This after troubleshooting on our side for half a day or whatever. This is specific to out environment. Not really a comment on the at large network community.

Only thing that really bothers me anymore about the network architecture/support guys is there unabashed elitism. Yep, I am a windows sysadmin. 1000 servers or so and yep, they fudge up routinely. But in my world, it's NEVER a network problem. And us stupid hardware/OS shouldn't dare to EVER point the finger away from ourselves. I'd love to hear them admit it just once. But I am a realist. That aint happenin. I, on the other hand, have no problem saying, Yes'r our shizzy was borked. Should be good now. Here's the root cause.

But I'll re-iterate, this isn't commentary on the people here or network admins as a blanket statement. It's the firewall guys just as often where I am at. Same attitude. nothing has changed but then poof, it all works all of a suddden.

It's an ongoing struggle and the only issue I have ever with any of it is the nose these guys look down at us. So if it's a blanket statement the other direction, in our direction, the F U 2!

 

[spidey07]

ktwebb,

I guess that's where I differ. If my group saw something or if I personally saw something out of line.....

Then you frickin own up to it. It's called ethics. You work as a team and you report the truth. This way any problems get resolved instead of covering up.

You're right though. Hardcore network architects can be elitest, as well they should be. They understand it all. programming, development, communications, interaction between systems, etc.

 

[ktwebb]

It trickles down to some degree. The lead guy is a prick so his guys not only don't have to admit to anything I expect they'd get the evil eye from him if they did. It hardly bothers me anymore. I am a prick right back so I am blackballed. I only make the call to "those" guys if my manager dictates it. I have no open animosity towards the network guys, as much as it may sound like it. I just have a few years of experience with em and know better by now. And at least in my company, they know exactly diddly about my world. They couldn't tell an active/active 6 node windows cluster from a goo-goo cluster.

 

[stash]

I should NOT have to give a dissentary

No, you definitely shouldn't be giving people disentery

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: stash

I should NOT have to give a dissentary

No, you definitely shouldn't be giving people disentery

heh, cut me some slack. I've got a few pounds of turkey and wine/football/jack daniels in me right now.

now go back and fix your tcp/ip stack.