it's the law: cheerleading is NOT a sport

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moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56
its awful when they do it for the sake of title 9 alone.
there was a time when only boy's sports were deemed worthy, and the larger amount of money was spent on them, not girl's sports. this is what Title IX sought to change, to give equal opportunity and equal access to things like uniforms, locker rooms, scholarships.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
there was a time when only boy's sports were deemed worthy, and the larger amount of money was spent on them, not girl's sports. this is what Title IX sought to change, to give equal opportunity and equal access to things like uniforms, locker rooms, scholarships.

yes good idea, it becomes a bad idea when male sports are canceled so schools can fill the title 9 requirement. which has and does happen
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
yes good idea, it becomes a bad idea when male sports are canceled so schools can fill the title 9 requirement. which has and does happen



Yea thats the point, and Mosh stated it as well. Its not bad when everything is made to be a level playing field.
Also there are more girls in College then boys, and most sports programs lose money. That money comes from the State and student fees, i.e. again more from women then men.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56
yes good idea, it becomes a bad idea when male sports are canceled so schools can fill the title 9 requirement. which has and does happen
I did say it was not without issues :\
But it has helped women's sports in many positive ways that weren't being acknowledged before Title IX.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Yeh, isn't it awful that they have to spend equally on male and female sports?
Actually... that would be terrible but that's not what title IX mandates, just comparable spending. Honestly I think title IX is pretty decent as far as equality mandates go. Doesn't mean it's easy for colleges to deal with.

LOL @ the "this is a sport but that isn't" arguments. Whatever requirements someone states for a sport to discredit an activity also excludes another activity that same person would argue IS a sport.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
LOL @ the "this is a sport but that isn't" arguments. Whatever requirements someone states for a sport to discredit an activity also excludes another activity that same person would argue IS a sport.

Not me. In my mind a sport has to have an measurable objective. Now the measurement can be prone to human error, as in the case with refereed sports (such as the England/Germany game) but the standard itself has to be objective (number of times a ball crosses a line).

Figure skating and gymnastics have moved closer to becoming sports by instituting base points for certain tricks and deduction systems (so then they'd just be corrupt sports) but refuse to remove standards for artistry (which is inherently immeasurable). Same as competitive cheerleading, diving, etc.

And yes, I consider SUMO a sport and not title boxing (but do consider Olympic boxing a sport).
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
1. Skill
2. Physical exertion
3. Competition

Some of you are using some pretty terrible definitions of a sport.

Competitive cheerleading is clearly a sport, but it's understandable that the judge would reject it for Title IX purposes because it's not competed at the collegiate level.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Not me. In my mind a sport has to have an measurable objective.
<snip>
And yes, I consider SUMO a sport and not title boxing (but do consider Olympic boxing a sport).
Case in point, title boxing has measurable objectives (KO, TKO, judges score card).
 

joebloggs10

Member
Apr 20, 2010
153
0
0
I did say it was not without issues :\
But it has helped women's sports in many positive ways that weren't being acknowledged before Title IX.

To me, Title IX was very good in principle and very poor in implementation. I know that at my alma mater men's teams have been eliminated about every other year, team's with full rosters, so they can implement new women's teams, some of which cannot compete due to lack of participants.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
To this non-American what seems odd and regrettable is the way sport (however defined) is so closely mixed up with university-level education in the US. This argument about whether cheerleading is or is not a sport is surely mainly an issue because of that, no? Ideally it would be better if universities just did their thing of educating people in academic subjects and sports remained confined to completely unrelated sports clubs (whether private or state funded, though I'm not sure why any sport involving adults really needs state funding)?

I know we have the Oxford/Cambridge boat race, but that's just one small event (though its weird how its always the same two finalists!).

Also, when is Quake going to be classed as a sport? If race-car driving and (over here) snooker(!!) and darts(!!!) are so classed, I don't see why video games don't count.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,501
126
Quinnipiac was trying to pull a couple of fast tricks to get around Title IX requirements. Things like counting woman runners three times as being on three different teams (indoor track, outdoor track and cross country) while men were only counted once.

The real gist of this lawsuit was Quinnipiac eliminated women's volleyball to save money, and attempted to replace it with the "sport" of cheerleading in order to technically comply with Title IX?

The more important legal question in my mind is what sort of low-life evil scum would even consider eliminating college women's volleyball, one of the best spectator sports even invented?
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Yeh, isn't it awful that they have to spend equally on male and female sports?

I don't know if it's awful, but it sure is pointless in most cases. The number of people who attend women's sporting events is pitiful compared to the number who attend men's in most cases.

Also, despite what many will claim, some universities receive a nice revenue boost from men's athletics after you factor in merchandising and such. Money given to women's sports is practically charity in comparison, and they have their games in front of empty seats in a lot of cases.

Currently my university is BEGGING female students to come be on a women's rugby team with "no experience necessary". How competitive do you really think it's going to be?
 
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TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
I did say it was not without issues :\
But it has helped women's sports in many positive ways that weren't being acknowledged before Title IX.

I don't think that helping one group by hurting another group is fair. I played a sport in high school that gets fucked over by title IX, so maybe its personal. Although I still did land a full ride (which I consequently left because the school sucked ass).
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Well you are trying to make sure they don't have a better score than you, and thus, you strive to have a better score at the end of the competition.
The score, in those cases, is time.

There's no score in Golf? haha news to me.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
I always look at a sport as something where the two competitors/teams directly affect one another's "score". So basketball is a sport, for example, because there's defense involved, and the offense has to score in spite of the efforts of the other team.

I think of things like cheerleading, gymnastics, swimming, and the like, as competitions - not a "sport". There's competition involved, but it's not a direct competition in the same way as a sport would be.

It's purely semantics though, many "competitions" require just as much athletic talent and hard work as "sports" - it's just my way of classifying them.

thats just idiotic. gymnastics has been a sport for a very long time. there are teams and individuals comepeting against each other. have you ever watched it? Swimming? really? so again the Olympics are wrong?

some people's idea of what a sport is or is not is kinda lame.

i can understand why cheerleading is not conisdered a sport. but competitive cheeerleading yeah that should be a sport but that is not what was the idea of the lawsuit.

Tible IX is crap. the idea was good but the implementation sucked.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Case in point, title boxing has measurable objectives (KO, TKO, judges score card).

Certainly KO and TKO are measurable objectives, but I disagree that the judges score card is. What action, specifically, does the athlete perform which we can measure and generates the judges score?
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56
I don't think that helping one group by hurting another group is fair. I played a sport in high school that gets fucked over by title IX, so maybe its personal. Although I still did land a full ride (which I consequently left because the school sucked ass).
What sport?
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56
I don't know if it's awful, but it sure is pointless in most cases. The number of people who attend women's sporting events is pitiful compared to the number who attend men's in most cases.

Also, despite what many will claim, some universities receive a nice revenue boost from men's athletics after you factor in merchandising and such. Money given to women's sports is practically charity in comparison, and they have their games in front of empty seats in a lot of cases.

Currently my university is BEGGING female students to come be on a women's rugby team with "no experience necessary". How competitive do you really think it's going to be?
Are you kidding me? They are giving scholarships to female students to come play on their rugby team? Where is this school? I could get a few to sign up for that.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
IIRC, volleyball.

and wrestling. a buddy of mine got a full ride on a wrestling scholarship. 2nd year in they canceled the wrestling team. they didn't have enough females for the sports teams and couldn't afford to keep them.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Certainly KO and TKO are measurable objectives, but I disagree that the judges score card is. What action, specifically, does the athlete perform which we can measure and generates the judges score?
Judges scores are generated based on a system.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4604197_score-boxing.html

There's room for interpretation, just like in gymnastics. Don't like the judging? At worst that just makes it corrupt sport, again you own words.
 
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