It's time to start planning my new stereo

[jlee]

I'll have to measure and see if I can fit a ten anywhere.

Any recommendations on a double DIN nav unit? I've traditionally been a Pioneer guy, but I'm willing to try something else. I found a Pioneer for less than $400 on Amazon, but the revviews weren't so hot.

 

[The J]

Not sure if you were referring to my post, but the sub I mentioned is actually a 12". I mentioned it because of its small box requirement. It sounded like you were going to use the underseat enclosure at first, so I think this sub would work wonders in such a place. Here is one of the reviews I read about it: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-product-reviews/68653-stereo-integrity-bm-prototype.html

I'm wondering about Nav units, too. I saw the $400 Pioneer one (U310-BT) and also remember reading that it was pretty crummy. If I can muster up the cash, I might go for the Pioneer X710-BT.

I'm actually working on my first full car install (right now I have a simple headunit/speaker swap), so I'm no expert on this stuff.

 

[jlee]

I've done a few installs - each one I do I try to make cleaner than the last, so I'd like this one to be really clean. My last one (in my sister's car) was pretty basic - sub/amp, and new door speakers off a new HU. She loves it. I'd like to do this without cutting the body at all - I don't think I have enough room in the seat compartment cover/hole for a 12, but I can check.

 

[cheerio]

I'll have to measure and see if I can fit a ten anywhere.

Any recommendations on a double DIN nav unit? I've traditionally been a Pioneer guy, but I'm willing to try something else. I found a Pioneer for less than $400 on Amazon, but the revviews weren't so hot.

I think amazon was one of the first to actually introduce the double din and especially with a nav. They have been making double dins since the late 90s

 

[jlee]

I think amazon was one of the first to actually introduce the double din and especially with a nav. They have been making double dins since the late 90s

Pioneer?

I'll have to start doing some shopping around...I want to redo the whole stereo, but I'd like a deck sooner than later (really want aux in).

 

[kornphlake]

Don't forget you'll need space to mount the amp(s) too, an amp can take up an obscene amount of room when you don't have trunk to put it in. Which begs the question, do you really need a sub, I had a nice set of 6.5" components and a 40W amp in my Blazer and people always wondered where the subwoofer was, it's not too difficult to get down to 40hz with good speakers, a sub doesn't do much that is audible below that frequency. A CD's frequency range only goes as low as 20hz so there isn't really that much you'd be missing in music if your main speakers don't hit lower than 40 Hz.

These were the speakers I had: http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_20627_Boston_Acoustics_S60.aspx they supposedly roll off at 58hz, I have a feeling that cabin gain in my particular vehicle made it less noticeable though.

 

[brblx]

you can get a little bit of bass from 6.5's, but it's near-impossible to really do a complete stereo without more cone area. two additional 6.5's or a single 8" would be a decent start, two 8's or a 10, even better. ideally, i think one twelve can really sound great. i run one ID12 right now (sealed box, in a trunk, but with empty rear speaker holes) and it's more than enough bass without overpowering my comps. 350w output for the rear, 125x2 for the fronts. though i doubt the fronts have seen nearly that much power and the sub (rated 250wrms) isn't going full-tilt.

the reason two 6.5's don't cut it is just lack of displacement. if you full range them, they're going to bottom out on notes in the 20-40hz region. i won't cross my comps any lower than 50-60hz or so, any lower is speaker suicide. they've got big motors and enough power to play themselves to death, and you still wouldn't be hearing much bass.

a decent 10" sub is going to have more area than two 6.5" speakers (which will be busy playing 60-70hz and up) and a lot more throw (xmax), which will greatly help in playing lower frequencies. remember, lower frequency always means more air will need to be moved. to, say, play a 20hz tone as loud as a 60hz tone, a speaker will need to excurt three times as far.

also remember that door speaker installation and tweeter placement is one of the most critical things in a good sounding install. if you want to get decent bass from your 6.5's at all (punchy midbass will help keep the illusion of all the bass being up front, <100hz being pretty omnidirectional because of the length of the sound waves), make sure the door is sealed up fairly well (though don't block the drain holes) and heavily deadened. the tweeters should be on roughly the same plane- if the speakers point straight across, it often sounds best to have the tweeters point straight across, also. though they can be aimed right at you if they're not too harsh. aiming toward the windshield is a no-no.

 

[jlee]

I was hoping to put everything in factory locations (speakers and tweeters in front door panels). I will probably disconnect the rear door speakers, and I would like to fit whatever subwoofer(s) I settle on (and can fit) underneath the rear passenger seat. I should have plenty of room underneath the driver's and/or passenger's front seats for amplifiers, assuming I get something that's not physically massive.

I have Polk Audio 6.5 components and a 4x50w Rockford Fosgate (older model, apparently underrated from the factory) in my MR2 and it's great...I just have crappy bass (5.25" OEM replacement running off the other two channels).

 

[EightySix Four]

i was hoping to put everything in factory locations (speakers and tweeters in front door panels). I will probably disconnect the rear door speakers, and i would like to fit whatever subwoofer(s) i settle on (and can fit) underneath the rear passenger seat. I should have plenty of room underneath the driver's and/or passenger's front seats for amplifiers, assuming i get something that's not physically massive.

I have polk audio 6.5 components and a 4x50w rockford fosgate (older model, apparently underrated from the factory) in my mr2 and it's great...i just have crappy bass (5.25" oem replacement running off the other two channels).

ygpm

 

[kornphlake]

you can get a little bit of bass from 6.5's, but it's near-impossible to really do a complete stereo without more cone area. two additional 6.5's or a single 8" would be a decent start, two 8's or a 10, even better. ideally, i think one twelve can really sound great. i run one ID12 right now (sealed box, in a trunk, but with empty rear speaker holes) and it's more than enough bass without overpowering my comps. 350w output for the rear, 125x2 for the fronts. though i doubt the fronts have seen nearly that much power and the sub (rated 250wrms) isn't going full-tilt.

the reason two 6.5's don't cut it is just lack of displacement. if you full range them, they're going to bottom out on notes in the 20-40hz region. i won't cross my comps any lower than 50-60hz or so, any lower is speaker suicide. they've got big motors and enough power to play themselves to death, and you still wouldn't be hearing much bass.

a decent 10" sub is going to have more area than two 6.5" speakers (which will be busy playing 60-70hz and up) and a lot more throw (xmax), which will greatly help in playing lower frequencies. remember, lower frequency always means more air will need to be moved. to, say, play a 20hz tone as loud as a 60hz tone, a speaker will need to excurt three times as far.

also remember that door speaker installation and tweeter placement is one of the most critical things in a good sounding install. if you want to get decent bass from your 6.5's at all (punchy midbass will help keep the illusion of all the bass being up front, <100hz being pretty omnidirectional because of the length of the sound waves), make sure the door is sealed up fairly well (though don't block the drain holes) and heavily deadened. the tweeters should be on roughly the same plane- if the speakers point straight across, it often sounds best to have the tweeters point straight across, also. though they can be aimed right at you if they're not too harsh. aiming toward the windshield is a no-no.

Despite your argument, I maintain my position that a sub is not necessary in all situations. Cabin gain will vary from vehicle to vehicle, a 6.5" speaker may roll off at 60hz and be down 10db or more at 20hz but standing waves and resonance inside the vehicle may reinforce the low frequencies so the result is you hear lower frequencies louder than the speaker actually plays them.

Sub installs are completely modular, it's not a problem to install a stereo without a sub, listen to the system and decide if a sub is needed or not. In my Blazer I didn't feel like 6.5" speakers were lacking any bass without a subwoofer. The same speakers in a different vehicle would have benefited from a sub.

Look at the Tang Band W6-1139SI for a small sub enclosure, in a sealed enclosure it needs something like .75 ft^3, it has 13mm Xmax to make up for it's smaller cone area and doesn't need a billion watts to drive one. There are some videos on Youtube that demonstrate this speaker's impressive Xmax.

 

[jtvang125]

Despite your argument, I maintain my position that a sub is not necessary in all situations. Cabin gain will vary from vehicle to vehicle, a 6.5" speaker may roll off at 60hz and be down 10db or more at 20hz but standing waves and resonance inside the vehicle may reinforce the low frequencies so the result is you hear lower frequencies louder than the speaker actually plays them.

Sub installs are completely modular, it's not a problem to install a stereo without a sub, listen to the system and decide if a sub is needed or not. In my Blazer I didn't feel like 6.5" speakers were lacking any bass without a subwoofer. The same speakers in a different vehicle would have benefited from a sub.

*Edit* Also if you're tight on space for an amp(s) I'd recommend going with a 5 channel. A good choice is the Alpine PDX-5. With a footprint of about a sheet of paper it's 75w x 4 and 300 x 1, plenty of power for 1 or even 2 8".


Look at the Tang Band W6-1139SI for a small sub enclosure, in a sealed enclosure it needs something like .75 ft^3, it has 13mm Xmax to make up for it's smaller cone area and doesn't need a billion watts to drive one. There are some videos on Youtube that demonstrate this speaker's impressive Xmax.

Any system will benefit from the addition of a sub. I have 6.5" components up front and 6.5 rear coax with a 10" sub with all doors dampen. When I turn the sub off the bass from the 6.5s are pretty impressive but it's still only midbass. It's a day and night difference when I turn the sub back on.

Now if you're talking about a 6.5" sub in a small sealed box that's a totally different story as these can extend much lower than many of the woofers found in component systems.

 

[brblx]

yeah, using a 6.5" sub in a box is a lot different from a door speaker.

Cabin gain will vary from vehicle to vehicle, a 6.5" speaker may roll off at 60hz and be down 10db or more at 20hz but standing waves and resonance inside the vehicle may reinforce the low frequencies so the result is you hear lower frequencies louder than the speaker actually plays them.

i'm saying you are going to get zero output below 60hz or so, because that's around where your crossover frequency will be. the problem isn't just that the output is less at lower frequencies, it's that the speaker cannot physically play what it is trying to reproduce, and if enough power is pushed through it, it will fail.