It's worse than we thought

[International Machine Consortium]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20500205-601,00.html

An attack on average of every 15 minutes.

Bob Woodward has written a new book. He claims Kissenger is trying to win Vietnam all over again. THIS time he's not going to let it go.... A possible reason for Bush's inability to turn the burning and sinking ship around?

"It's getting to the point now where there are eight, 900 attacks a week. That's more than 100 a day. That is four an hour attacking our forces," Woodward said, in excerpts of the interview released yesterday before the release of his book on the administration, State of Denial.

Of course the Bush apologists will be out in full force, trying to attack the messenger, but eventually people are going to realize just what they have gotten us into.

 

[Jaskalas]

I?m all for defeating our enemy in Iraq.

However:

If we?re not willing to use the brutal measures required to win then we?ve no business being there fighting a lost cause. Either we step up and manage to root out hostiles or we stop playing human sacrifice with our soldiers.

One must NEVER fight a war that they are not willing to win.

 

[techs]

With the Bush administration it is not what reality is, but what the can convince the public is the reality is.
Has any government in the history of the world ever failed so miserably at so many things then the Bushies?
Nope.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20500205-601,00.html

An attack on average of every 15 minutes.

Bob Woodward has written a new book. He claims Kissenger is trying to win Vietnam all over again. THIS time he's not going to let it go.... A possible reason for Bush's inability to turn the burning and sinking ship around?

Those figures are misleading. The Pentagon's own report showed ~800 attacks per month, however, regardless of which figure you use, this includes all attacks. Many of the attacks are against Iraqi civilians and officials, not U.S. and coalition forces.

Kissinger trying to fight Nam over again? Please. This is Bob Woodward trying to sell a book and the liberal media chasing down another straw man.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium.

PLEASE GET A NEW NICKNAME, YOUR NICKNAME IS WAY TOO LONG AND SCREWS UP THE TOPICS PAGE (THE ORIGINATOR AND LAST POST COLUMNS IN SPECIFIC).

 

[Witling]

Britain's Foreign Secretary at the time of the Iraq invasion and now leader of the Commons, Jack Straw, was a supporter of this mess. He had an interview on BBC on Thursday, September 28th. He said

"The current situation is dire," he said on BBC1's Question Time last night. "I think many mistakes were made after the military action - there is no question about it - by the United States administration. "Why? Because they failed to follow the lead of secretary [of state Colin] Powell. The state department had put in a huge amount of effort to ensure there was a proper civilian administration."

See Iraq Situation Is Dire, Straw in the Guardian. Oh, and by the way, the senior British military officers are pushing to have British troops removed from Iraq. See Take UK Troops Out of Iraq, Senior Military Told Ministers. So much for the shining beacon of democracy in the Middle East -- an expressed goal of the administration.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20500205-601,00.html

An attack on average of every 15 minutes.

Bob Woodward has written a new book. He claims Kissenger is trying to win Vietnam all over again. THIS time he's not going to let it go.... A possible reason for Bush's inability to turn the burning and sinking ship around?

Those figures are misleading. The Pentagon's own report showed ~800 attacks per month, however, regardless of which figure you use, this includes all attacks. Many of the attacks are against Iraqi civilians and officials, not U.S. and coalition forces.

Kissinger trying to fight Nam over again? Please. This is Bob Woodward trying to sell a book and the liberal media chasing down another straw man.

Don't you feel the least bit sorry denying what everyone on both sides of this issue who are not just spouting the party line agree on? That Rummy and this administration have screwed up royally and that our troops are DYING. And still the Bushies keep giving us propaganda instead of knuckling down and making some hard decisions?
Don't you even realize that people are DYING while a clearly propagandistic view of what is happening is giving cover for the disaster?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20500205-601,00.html

An attack on average of every 15 minutes.

Bob Woodward has written a new book. He claims Kissenger is trying to win Vietnam all over again. THIS time he's not going to let it go.... A possible reason for Bush's inability to turn the burning and sinking ship around?

Those figures are misleading. The Pentagon's own report showed ~800 attacks per month, however, regardless of which figure you use, this includes all attacks. Many of the attacks are against Iraqi civilians and officials, not U.S. and coalition forces.

Kissinger trying to fight Nam over again? Please. This is Bob Woodward trying to sell a book and the liberal media chasing down another straw man.

"According to Woodward, insurgent attacks against coalition troops occur, on average, every 15 minutes, a shocking fact the administration has kept secret. . . .

"The situation is getting much worse, says Woodward, despite what the White House and the Pentagon are saying in public. 'The truth is that the assessment by intelligence experts is that next year, 2007, is going to get worse and, in public, you have the president and you have the Pentagon [saying], 'Oh, no, things are going to get better,' he tells Wallace. 'Now there's public, and then there's private. But what did they do with the private? They stamp it secret. No one is supposed to know,' says Woodward."

[link]

Repeat after me: "Insurgent attacks against coalition troops occur, on average, every 15 minutes."

So, once again you're wrong, based on Woodward's accusation.

 

[conjur]

Kind of hard to hide the complete lock-down of Baghdad for the whole weekend


I always wondered what "adapting to win" looked like.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
So, once again you're wrong, based on Woodward's accusation.

Since when is Woodward's word fact?

I'll trust the numbers from the Pentagon's own report over anything Bob Woodward says, Thanks.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I?m all for defeating our enemy in Iraq.

However:

If we?re not willing to use the brutal measures required to win then we?ve no business being there fighting a lost cause. Either we step up and manage to root out hostiles or we stop playing human sacrifice with our soldiers.

One must NEVER fight a war that they are not willing to win.

Explain. You people trot out that pseudo-tough guy nonsense about "taking the gloves off" every time this topic comes up, but I've yet to hear an explanation about how that would be helpful in this situation. The problem with a civil war/insurgency is it's not clear where to apply force, applying MORE force isn't a solution to that problem, and will only fuel in the insurgency and the rest of the country against the US.

Seriously, if you can back that up, I'm willing to listen...but I don't really see the logic of your approach here.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
So, once again you're wrong, based on Woodward's accusation.

Since when is Woodward's word fact?

I'll trust the numbers from the Pentagon's own report over anything Bob Woodward says, Thanks.

Yeah, Lawrence LieRita has proven to be trustworthy and honest. :roll:


You can't honestly be for real. Surely you're a cartoon sent here for entertainment purposes only.

 

[tommywishbone]

That book is nonsense, the war is going fine. Stay the course.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
That book is nonsense, the war is going fine. Stay the course.

We've turned the corner and they're throwing flowers by the bucket-loads!

 

[trenchfoot]

We've turned the corner and they're throwing flowers by the bucket-loads!

Home before christmas! (says the democrats)

yeah, ok, but only if you're coming home in a mil spec. coffin (says the neocons)

 

[ProfJohn]

Weren't the lefties attacking Woodward when he was defending Libby and Rove over the Plame name leak?

Now that he attacks the Bush admin he is your hero?

If anyone says anything bad about Bush you believe them in a second, but if someone defends Bush they are a shill... nice standards you guys have.

 

[TRUMPHENT]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Weren't the lefties attacking Woodward when he was defending Libby and Rove over the Plame name leak?

Now that he attacks the Bush admin he is your hero?

If anyone says anything bad about Bush you believe them in a second, but if someone defends Bush they are a shill... nice standards you guys have.

UMMM, No!

Do you remember September 2003? How about December 2003? David Kay elected to not to return to Iraq in 2004. Why? All his intell and interpreters were hijacked for combatting the insurgency. I am sure you remember those events. You do, don't you?


These events were well reported long before the current Woodward book.

I also remember hints of requests for more troops being disguised as " exploring other options".

 

[conjur]

Kind of hard to hide it when the UN is reporting the worst monthly death toll in Iraq since the illegal invasion:

U.N.: Iraqi civilian deaths at new high (3,709 dead in Oct.)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061122/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The United Nations said Wednesday that 3,709 Iraqi civilians were killed in October, the highest monthly toll since the March 2003 U.S. invasion and another sign of the severity of Iraq's sectarian bloodbath.

...

The U.N. tally was more than three times higher than the total The Associated Press had tabulated for the month, and far more than the 2,866 U.S. service members who have died during all of the war.

The report on civilian casualties, handed out at a U.N. news conference in Baghdad, said the influence of militias was growing and torture continued to be rampant, despite the Iraqi government's vow to address human rights abuses.

"Hundreds of bodies continued to appear in different areas of Baghdad handcuffed, blindfolded and bearing signs of torture and execution-style killing," the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq report said. "Many witnesses reported that perpetrators wear militia attire and even police or army uniforms."

What a great gift, democracy.

Esp. when it's rammed down the throats of an occupied country via bullets and cluster bombs and phosphorous bombs and corrupt pro-US puppets and militias infiltrating police/security forces and....

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium.

PLEASE GET A NEW NICKNAME, YOUR NICKNAME IS WAY TOO LONG AND SCREWS UP THE TOPICS PAGE (THE ORIGINATOR AND LAST POST COLUMNS IN SPECIFIC).

Buy a monitor bigger then 11", and/or a video card with more then 1 meg of ram and fix your caps lock button.

Works fine for me at 1152x864, L2 change resolution.


Anyhow, same old crap from these idiots, of course they are lying their asses off on how bad it is. I am sure in 30 years we will find out they were full of it this whole time, same as Vietnam as pointed out earlier. But will the suck ups listen even though they have been wrong over and over by listening to the official stories? Fat chance.

 

[Aisengard]

The only way to get Iraq under control is to put a guy like Saddam back in power. That's what taking the gloves off ultimately means.

 

[tomywishbone]

"The United Nations said Wednesday that 3,709 Iraqi civilians were killed in October, the highest monthly toll since the March 2003 U.S. invasion and another sign of the severity of Iraq's sectarian bloodbath. "
----------------------------------------------------------

Civil war is a bloodthirsty mess... always has been... always will be.

 

[XMan]

Every fifteen minutes?

My brother's unit has been there for three months and they've had a grand total of two "incidents."

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
The only way to get Iraq under control is to put a guy like Saddam back in power. That's what taking the gloves off ultimately means.

I have to agree. Basically it means being the next Saddam, or putting him back in charge or finding his replacement. In the you'll become just as hated though in the end. Iraq = Clusterfuck.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: XMan
Every fifteen minutes?

My brother's unit has been there for three months and they've had a grand total of two "incidents."

1 unit does not equal the whole experience of Iraq. I know that is hard to grasp but those bodies don't just put themselves in the morgue by magical means.

 

[Aisengard]

XMan, your brother's unit is lucky if it's on the front lines, or it's not in 'hot' zones like Baghdad.

Please don't base your opinions off of one unit.