I've got some questions about UPS units from APC..

[Philippine Mango]

1. Major difference between Backup UPS and Smart UPS?
2. If I get a UPS with a lower AV value, is it possible to upgrade the power capacity, say from 2200AV to 3000AV? I think I've heard about
3. Why is there such a high price difference between Smart UPS and Backup UPS?
4. Is there anyone on this forum with a particularly large knowledge about APC's products? Maybe just UPSs? Cause when I go to the 'support area', I'm extremely intimidated by the huge list of items on there..

 

[Bob Anderson]

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango
1. Major difference between Backup UPS and Smart UPS?
2. If I get a UPS with a lower AV value, is it possible to upgrade the power capacity, say from 2200AV to 3000AV? I think I've heard about
3. Why is there such a high price difference between Smart UPS and Backup UPS?
4. Is there anyone on this forum with a particularly large knowledge about APC's products? Maybe just UPSs? Cause when I go to the 'support area', I'm extremely intimidated by the huge list of items on there..

1. A battery backup type draws from the battery only when the AC fails; a 'smart' type draws from the battery at all times, and regenerates the AC anew for your connected equipment

2. Get a model that can have a second battery pack attached

3. The smart type uses many more components

4. No reason to be intimidated. Just read up on UPS technology and FAQ's. Asking questions here is a good start.

-Bob

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: Bob Anderson

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango
1. Major difference between Backup UPS and Smart UPS?
2. If I get a UPS with a lower AV value, is it possible to upgrade the power capacity, say from 2200AV to 3000AV? I think I've heard about
3. Why is there such a high price difference between Smart UPS and Backup UPS?
4. Is there anyone on this forum with a particularly large knowledge about APC's products? Maybe just UPSs? Cause when I go to the 'support area', I'm extremely intimidated by the huge list of items on there..

1. A battery backup type draws from the battery only when the AC fails; a 'smart' type draws from the battery at all times, and regenerates the AC anew for your connected equipment

Um, that doesn't seem like it would be very smart since that would kill the battery quite quickly. I thought that the Battery-Backup are capable of voltage trimming and that the power is 'cleaned' when it goes through the Battery Backup or Smart UPS...

 

[snoturtle]

The model I have Back-Ups XS 1500 runs my computer on battery all of the time

That way the voltage never fluctuates and the battery is continuisly charged from the AC

 

[snoturtle]

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango

Um, that doesn't seem like it would be very smart since that would kill the battery quite quickly. I thought that the Battery-Backup are capable of voltage trimming and that the power is 'cleaned' when it goes through the Battery Backup or Smart UPS...

Thats actually exactally how you do want it

One the runs the computer on battery all of the time is better than one that switches over to battery if there is a faliure

If it doesn't switch fast enough than a surge can make it through or you lose power

 

[Philippine Mango]

Why do these two UPS' have the same capacity yet have different wattages? One is 2700 Watts (3000I) and one is 2250 Watts (3000NET)
Why is this? Yes they're the same AV rating but I just don't get it..

3000NET

3000I


And why is the SUA 750 a lower capacity in amount of time than the SU700?
SU700

SUA750

You can find the time comparisons on this page Compare

Just select the models I've mentioned and it'll show what I'm talking about..

Is getting a refurb model a bad idea? I probably can get an SU700 for $80 refurb, maybe I should just get one off ebay?

 

[Bob Anderson]

[/quote]
Um, that doesn't seem like it would be very smart since that would kill the battery quite quickly. I thought that the Battery-Backup are capable of voltage trimming and that the power is 'cleaned' when it goes through the Battery Backup or Smart UPS...[/quote]


The battery is constantly being charged; it is always at 100%. This means that the smart type use more electricity than the battery back up type. My smart Trip-Lite SU1000XL (800 watts) burns 30-35 watts continuously, about the same as an LCD.

Not all battery back- up types trim voltages. This feature is called AVR. It is a good idea to get that feature.

One reason why UPS's have different wattage ratings for a given VA is efficiency and just simply the way they are rated. There are no agreed-upon standards.

There is nothing wrong with buying a refurbished unit, as long as you get some warranty, and a new battery, of course. Your safest bet is to buy a refurb from a manufacturer, or an authorized re-seller, not ebay.

Edit: forgot to mention only the smart types 'clean' the electrical output of noise and produce a pure sine wave. The BB types do not do any form of line conditioning, except boost voltages at brown outs and trim at over voltages. This is perfectly adequate for a home use UPS.

-Bob

 

[Philippine Mango]

Still doesn't explain why there are so many variations of these UPS' and why the seeming higher ends ones actually lack features.. Is there a guide to each model name?

I mean look at this model...

http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/te...TA3000XL&fnl=4605,2&fnl_basket=4605,3c

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango

Um, that doesn't seem like it would be very smart since that would kill the battery quite quickly. I thought that the Battery-Backup are capable of voltage trimming and that the power is 'cleaned' when it goes through the Battery Backup or Smart UPS...

There are 3 main types of UPS:
1) Simple, or offline: Contains a switch that routes mains power to your PC. When the mains power fails, or fluctuates, the switch changes over to battery power.
Advantage: Cheap. Simple. Efficient.
Disadvantage: Very rapid power fluctuations get through to the PC. Brief period without power to the PC as the switch changes over.

2) Line interactive. Exactly the same as offline, but with an additional power cleaning circuit. When a minor power fluctuation is detected, the mains voltage is cleaned before going to the PC.
Advantage: Longer battery life than offline - battery isn't used for minor power glitches because of the power cleaning circuit, only for outages. High efficiency.
Disadvantage: Higher cost.

3) Double conversion. PC runs on battery power all the time. A charger circuit ensures the battery is constantly kept topped up to 100%, and is not allowed to discharge while mains power is available.
Advantage: Perfectly clean power to PC at all times. No dropouts. No fluctuations. No switching over
Disadvantage: Expensive. Low efficiency (can increase power consumption/heat generation by 15%).

Why do these two UPS' have the same capacity yet have different wattages? One is 2700 Watts (3000I) and one is 2250 Watts (3000NET)
Why is this? Yes they're the same AV rating but I just don't get it..

It's due to PFC.

Let's say you've got a PC which needs 300W. You use a conventional PSU. This takes 375W of AC power from the mains. However, because it doesn't have PFC it requires 570 VA.

However, if you have a PFC PSU, then it might need 375 W of AC and 375 VA.

The UPS has to be able to cope with both the Watts and the Volt-Amps, as both stress different parts of the system. If you overload either one the UPS will shut off.

As PFC has become more common, the manufacturers of UPSs have found that their systems have had excessively high VA capacity, but not enough W capacity. More recent models have been tweaked to give a more balanced capacity.

 

[chansigrilian]

well i'm using apc's back-ups 500es on both my main rig and my htpc/lcd hdtv downstairs. while only 500va and 300w it supplies more than enough power to shut down both systems automatically. i purchased it primarily for surge protection and clean power but found that in addition, their app is nice (apc powerchute) and you can set under and over voltage specifications for it.

i have never had an issue with either ups and have lost power twice since i installed them a little less than a year ago. the automatic shutdown worked like a charm both times.

i purchased both units at compusa when they were on clearance and will use apc going forward based on my experience thus far.

don't know how much my info helped you but i highly recommend this company.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Can anyone tell me what is so special about the XL series of APC units? They seem better for the low end part (750VA Smart UPS opposed to 750VA XL Smart UPS).

One thing I've forgotten to keep in mind is that I get a UPS with the correct power input connector.

Also how many years should an APC unit last? Like how many replacement batteries will I be able to go through? Should I purchase a warranty for a future APC unit after a certain # of years? I'm just wondering how many times am I going to have to get a replacement APC unit as the 'upgrade' thing with APC will only get me upto a 35% discount on a new one.. I can't imagine needing a more advanced one..

 

[Philippine Mango]

I don't get the whole Audible noise at 1 meter from surface of unit thing, some of which are 45 dBA, 48 dBA, 42 dBA, I thought these things were suppose to be silent! I have my own UPS and it's silent, I don't get the Dba thing especially for the ones with out fans.. Also the whole Online Thermal Dissipation thing has gotten me worried. Is 275 BTU/hr a lot? Or should I look for more like 120 BTU/hr?

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi Mon, There seems to be a misconception in the description of your 1. The first type of UPS runs the AC straight to the output connectors and switches the converter on only when the AC goes out. The second type runs the converter at all times from the same supply that is charging the battery so there is no need to switch to the battery. It's always there. My engineers designed such a UPS as the first one about 30 yrs ago. It was built into a Point of Sale computer.

Hope this clears things up a bit, Jim