Ivy Bridge 3570K Testing, Opinions, Results, New Bios, 4.5Ghz At 1.236v

[Lepton87]

That will make things even worst. The IHS(Integrated Heat Spreader) is there to spread the heat from the CPU die and better distributing it to the Heatsink. Removing the IHS will decrease the overall cooling capability of the heatsink and thus increase the temperature of the CPU.

buhahaha sorry, I can't even think what to say to you... I haven't heard such BS for a long time...

I guess all enthusiast me included are complete idiots for doing that and temperature monitoring programs go awry after that procedure not to mention apple engineers. They must be utter idiots for removing IHSs in MAC pro line.

 

[AtenRa]

buhahaha sorry, I can't even think what to say to you... I haven't heard such BS for a long time...

I guess all enthusiast me included are complete idiots for doing that and temperature monitoring programs go awry after that procedure not to mention apple engineers. They must be utter idiots for removing IHSs in MAC pro line.

I suggest you first read about Heat Transfer and Cooling Microprocessor chips and then come here again to have a nice technical conversation.

 

[Lepton87]

I suggest you first read about Heat Transfer and Cooling Microprocessor chips and then come here again to have a nice technical conversation.

I've been there done that, it reduces CPU temp significantly. I guess you won't even care to comment about apple engineers. They too should read more about Heat Transfer right? Because they are such idiots.

 

[chimaxi83]

That will make things even worst. The IHS(Integrated Heat Spreader) is there to spread the heat from the CPU die and better distributing it to the Heatsink. Removing the IHS will decrease the overall cooling capability of the heatsink and thus increase the temperature of the CPU.

You really think that an extra layer of metal (the IHS) keeps temperatures down? That instead of direct contact between the core and a thermally conductive surface (heatsink/waterblock), there should be an IHS for improved transfer? The surface of the heatsink/waterblock isn't, in fact, a heat spreader in and of itself?

The IHS is there so that the end user doesn't damage the core.

 

[Cookie Monster]

You really think that an extra layer of metal (the IHS) keeps temperatures down? That instead of direct contact between the core and a thermally conductive surface (heatsink/waterblock), there should be an IHS for improved transfer? The surface of the heatsink/waterblock isn't, in fact, a heat spreader in and of itself?

The IHS is there so that the end user doesn't damage the core.

Actually its there to spread out the heat, hence why its called an integrated heat spreader.

Plus good luck trying to damage the chip itself

 

[Lepton87]

IHS really helps with the temps as long as you don't install a proper heat sink.

 

[chimaxi83]

Actually its there to spread out the heat, hence why its called an integrated heat spreader.

Plus good luck trying to damage the chip itself

I remember plenty of stories of people chipping corners off their exposed core Pentiums and Athlons.

Do you believe that in spreading the heat, the heat spreader improves the temperature of your cooling solution?

 

[AtenRa]

I've been there done that, it reduces CPU temp significantly. I guess you won't even care to comment about apple engineers. They too should read more about Heat Transfer right? Because they are such idiots.

The IB die size is too small and you will get nonuniform power map that will reduce the cooling capability of the heatsink. This is the reason that although IB has 77W TDP it has higher temperatures than SB at 95W TDP.


Removing the IHS off the IB chip, will result in an increase of the CPU temperature because you will decrease the cooling capability of the heatsink.

We are talking about IB here and not SB or SB-E. I have no knowledge that Apple will not use IHS with IB chips as of yet. And even if they will, im sure they will design the heatsink specifically for non-IHS CPU chips.

 

[Lepton87]

I give up any attempt to reason with you is doomed to fail.

 

[AtenRa]

I give up any attempt to reason with you is doomed to fail.

Can you technically explain why on a smaller die like IB, removing the IHS will result in lower temperatures using the same Heatsink that was used with the IHS on ??

 

[Lepton87]

Can you technically explain why on a smaller die like IB, removing the IHS will result in lower temperatures using the same Heatsink that was used with the IHS on ??

How can an additional slab of copper along with all the inefficiencies of contact help? With IHS you have: Die>>thermal paste>>IHS>thermal paste>>Heatsink without you just have Die>>thermal paste>>heatsink

 

[AtenRa]

Do you believe that in spreading the heat, the heat spreader improves the temperature of your cooling solution?

Yes because you have a uniform power map that will make your heatsink work better.

Microprocessor chips have nonuniform power characteristics. That means that certain areas of the die will produce more heat than the rest. The IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) spreads the heat evenly in the entire surface of the IHS. That makes it more efficient for the cooling solution (heatsink + fan) to dissipate the heat thus reducing the temperature.

You can have the same outcome from a non IHS CPU chip but not with the same Heatsink + fan design. You will have to redesign your Cooling solution (Heatsink and fan) for a non IHS CPU chip.

 

[AtenRa]

How can an additional slab of copper along with all the inefficiencies of contact help? With IHS you have: Die>>thermal paste>>IHS>thermal paste>>Heatsink without you just have Die>>thermal paste>>heatsink

see above

 

[Lepton87]

see above

your explanation is ridiculous, the IHS does not conduct heat any better than the heatsink, they are both made of COPPER. How many people have to say that you are wrong for you to finally admit it?

 

[exar333]

your explanation is ridiculous, the IHS does not conduct heat any better than the heatsink, they are both made of COPPER. How many people have to say that you are wrong for you to finally admit it?

My understanding was the reason you remove the IHS is that is not 100% copper (IIRC part aluminum). By 'replacing' the IHS with direct contact from the heatsink, you skip the layers of less efficient cooling. Albeit this all comes with risk of damaging your CPU die, if you are not careful.

 

[Lepton87]

My understanding was the reason you remove the IHS is that is not 100% copper (IIRC part aluminum). By 'replacing' the IHS with direct contact from the heatsink, you skip the layers of less efficient cooling. Albeit this all comes with risk of damaging your CPU die, if you are not careful.

no, IHS is in fact made of copper. It is just anodized so it looks like aluminum. Just lapping IHS can help, too.

 

[DigitalWolf]

no, IHS is in fact made of copper. It is just anodized so it looks like aluminum. Just lapping IHS can help, too.

I'm going to admit this back and forth was a bit interesting. Tho I think it could have been done a bit better. Anyway being curious I did a search and found a relevant link to what you have been saying:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2800/10


Most specificly:


"This is obviously a cooling play. The IHS is useful in preventing cracked cores from improperly installed heatsinks, but it does make cooling more difficult. With the heatsink flush against the bottom of the Nehalem die, it can remove heat faster from the chip. More efficient cooling results in lower CPU temperatures and lower fan speeds."


There is more in there but it was interesting to me (I don't follow Apple products at all).

 

[Magic Carpet]

Somebody has to take his/her newly bought IB apart and conduct thermal tests. Talk is cheap

 

[Don Karnage]

max stable with more volts?

I can do 5Ghz with 1.43v. 4.6 seems to be the sweet spot. Anything more and you have to go insane with the voltages.

Also i discovered my H80 has a partially broken mount on one side meaning my IBT results are probably incorrect

 

[blckgrffn]

Somebody has to take his/her newly bought IB apart and conduct thermal tests. Talk is cheap

This! :thumbsup:

Go for it, guys.

I can do 5Ghz with 1.43v. 4.6 seems to be the sweet spot. Anything more and you have to go insane with the voltages.

Also i discovered my H80 has a partially broken mount on one side meaning my IBT results might be incorrect.

That would be good news, actually!

 

[Ferzerp]

Looks like I thoroughly got beaten to pointing out that a heat speader inhibits, not promotes cooling on a cpu. Ah well.

Now for things that have no heatsink attached (memory for example), a heat spreader promotes cooling by drawing heat away and providing a larger surface area for air cooling (and radiative cooling as well, but if my physics memory isn't failing me, that's relatively minor compared to the conductive heat transfer between the hot object and the air). In that scenario, the "heatspreader" promotes cooling by, well frankly, being a very low-end heatsink. Though of course, some DIMM makers seem to have blurred the line a bit and make their heatspreaders more like traditional heatsinks (which really shows that the concept of heatspreader is kind of a silly concept as all they are are small, poor heatsinks)

 

[Ken g6]

Well, I'm surprised that the heat spreader makes heat conduction worse, and that it's simply a copper plate. I though the heat spreader was a "vapor chamber", bascially a flat heat pipe, which I would expect to very effectively spread heat all over its surface. Maybe some aftermarket supplier can make a replacement heat spreader that really is a vapor chamber?

 

[Ferzerp]

Ken, it's more that any time you add another material transition, you're reducing the ability to remove heat from a heat source.

 

[dma0991]

I'm pretty sure there is a valid reason for putting an IHS. Probably it is more to protect the die from cracking. We're talking about heatsinks that weigh about 1KG clamped down to a piece of glass. I've seen lidless CPUs, handled them as well but they are mostly in laptops.

Well, I'm surprised that the heat spreader makes heat conduction worse, and that it's simply a copper plate. I though the heat spreader was a "vapor chamber", bascially a flat heat pipe, which I would expect to very effectively spread heat all over its surface. Maybe some aftermarket supplier can make a replacement heat spreader that really is a vapor chamber?

The next advancement should be graphene copper but it is just a proposal. Might not even see the day it is implemented on an actual product.

 

[Puppies04]

I find the idea that anyone believes adding an extra physical barrier (i.e IHS) can make cooling more efficient laughable. Yeah sure if half the CPU coolers base was made of wood then the ihs would help spread the heat to the other side of the base plate but pretty much all aftermarket coolers have heat pipes uniformly spread throughout their contact surfaces meaning they perform exactly the same function as the ihs just with one less inefficient surface to surface contact for heat to make its way through.