Ivy Bridge Core i7 used in NEW Macbook Pro versus a PC deskotp or iMac?

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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Tell that to the professional video producers and photographers that swear by them then.

I can also say perfect color means nothing when you need PPI. It doesn't actually mean anything. Besides, last I checked no one did a color gamut test on the screen in question to determine its color accuracy. Apple displays have always ranked at or close to the top in pretty much every metric.

I am in the industry and we don't use any LCD tech for color. We still use Hitachi CRTs. Nothing beats calibrated CRT for color.

If you have to have IPS then I'd go Dell or NEC first. Their professional monitors are more expensive but a step above Apple.
 
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2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
I am in the industry and we don't use any LCD tech for color. We still use Hitachi CRTs. Nothing beats calibrated CRT for color.

If you have to have IPS then I'd go Dell or NEC first. Their professional monitors are more expensive but a step above Apple.

I agree Dells and NECs are better, but the apple display is not far behind.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I agree Dells and NECs are better, but the apple display is not far behind.

The most popular brand I've seen locally among artists and photographers is dell. Probably because of the coupon codes to be found online.
 

dsc106

Senior member
May 31, 2012
320
10
81
I am in the industry and we don't use any LCD tech for color. We still use Hitachi CRTs. Nothing beats calibrated CRT for color.

If you have to have IPS then I'd go Dell or NEC first. Their professional monitors are more expensive but a step above Apple.

I'm in the industry also. We use calibrated broadcast monitors to monitor color and do grading, but still do everything on IPS displays. The Dell and NECs are a "step above" in terms of what? From everything I have heard, read, and seen they are neck to neck in terms of color accuracy and contrast ratio. I do agree that they are better in terms of physical buttons, switches, connection options, etc.

The most popular brand I've seen locally among artists and photographers is dell. Probably because of the coupon codes to be found online.

I don't think that reflects quality in so much as it reflects pricing, like you said. I would never buy an Apple display (though I have 2 Cinema Displays I got from my company), as I prefer the ergos, connectivity, and physical controls not to mention the much cheaper price of the Dell monitors. I have 3 Dell IPS displays.
 

philipma1957

Golden Member
Jan 8, 2012
1,714
0
76
I have much experience with high DPI screens, and I'm with 2is. To me, the difference is quite striking. I think it's important to clarify the difference between seeing something in a store or using it for 5 minutes VS owning a hi DPI product and growing accustomed to it. Once you use one for a longer term, trying to go back to a lower DPI version is when the difference becomes most striking.


I owned a 27 inch iMac for 18 months > I ran it at 720p I liked the screen. I just thought That a 15 inch screen would not scale that well.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
I have much experience with high DPI screens, and I'm with 2is. To me, the difference is quite striking. I think it's important to clarify the difference between seeing something in a store or using it for 5 minutes VS owning a hi DPI product and growing accustomed to it. Once you use one for a longer term, trying to go back to a lower DPI version is when the difference becomes most striking.

Perhaps it's much better managed on the OSX side of things, which I almost never use, but I am not able to make great use out of high PPI screens on the PC side of things. This may be a failure on the side of Microsoft, I don't know.

FWIW, I bought an IBM 15.4" notebook with a 1920x1200 screen an eternity ago, and it was absolutely awful to use in Windows XP, and later, Vista. Things just didn't scale well, and many things were ludicrously tiny at that resolution. I replaced that unit with a 17" notebook with 1680x1050 and was 10x happier. Much lower PPI, but much better for my uses in Windows. And I owned that IBM for over a year, and after about 4 months of suffering found that I could acceptably use 1440x900, even though it looked ugly at that rez due to it being non-native.

Anyway, it sounds like my complaints about high PPI don't apply at all when using OSX. But even in Win7, too high a PPI sucks imo. I love high resolution screens, but only if they're big enough. 30" 2560x1600 is phenomenally good imo. I'd like to see a 35" @ 16:10 QuadHD+ (3840x2400). I think that would be a superb productivity / ultra high end product.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I'm in the industry also. We use calibrated broadcast monitors to monitor color and do grading, but still do everything on IPS displays. The Dell and NECs are a "step above" in terms of what? From everything I have heard, read, and seen they are neck to neck in terms of color accuracy and contrast ratio. I do agree that they are better in terms of physical buttons, switches, connection options, etc.



I don't think that reflects quality in so much as it reflects pricing, like you said. I would never buy an Apple display (though I have 2 Cinema Displays I got from my company), as I prefer the ergos, connectivity, and physical controls not to mention the much cheaper price of the Dell monitors. I have 3 Dell IPS displays.

Step above in total packageI mean. Aside from brushed metal styling, the apple display severly lacks everything else IMO. You have no physical adjustments and everything is software only. I find it's easier to get accuracy if you have both software and the hardware controls to adjust. Not that it can't be done, but it's my preference
 

dsc106

Senior member
May 31, 2012
320
10
81
Perhaps it's much better managed on the OSX side of things, w

Yeah, Windows doesn't scale at all - it's not made for it. OSX is built for the hardware, and Apple has created ultra high resolution (HiDPI) versions of everything - all icons, apps, etc. Which means all of the screen elements stay the same size, but look ridiculously crisp. OSX also allows you to scale so you can get more real estate if you choose.

Apple charges a LOT for their hardware, yes. But the build quality is beautiful, down to every detail. And for many, it's all about OSX - which is really an incredible operating system. Is that worth it? Depends on each individually personally and what you value. I think it's clear that a lot of people here are system builders that look for max power for minimum price and enjoy tinkering. Ironically, I am one of these people but also very much appreciate Apple and their products and software, particularly on the mobile side. IMO, there are things worth paying for in a computer that go beyond pure speed/benchmarks. But, to each their own.
 
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dsc106

Senior member
May 31, 2012
320
10
81
Step above in total packageI mean. Aside from brushed metal styling, the apple display severly lacks everything else IMO. You have no physical adjustments and everything is software only. I find it's easier to get accuracy if you have both software and the hardware controls to adjust. Not that it can't be done, but it's my preference

Agreed, I actually REALLY dislike the lack of physical controls on the cinema displays. The image is outstanding, but then again, so is the image on my other high end IPS displays. When I set my computer to sleep, I often lose the USB connection to the display meaning my keyboard brightness controls won't send the signal to the monitor, so I have to disconnect/reconnect the cable. And even then, it will only control brightness on one monitor - I have to dig into software preferences to control both. Not to mention the lack of connectivity.

But, that aside, the actual image on the displays is top-notch.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Yeah, Windows doesn't scale at all - it's not made for it. OSX is built for the hardware, and Apple has created ultra high resolution (HiDPI) versions of everything - all icons, apps, etc. Which means all of the screen elements stay the same size, but look ridiculously crisp. OSX also allows you to scale so you can get more real estate if you choose.

Apple charges a LOT for their hardware, yes. But the build quality is beautiful, down to every detail. And for many, it's all about OSX - which is really an incredible operating system. Is that worth it? Depends on each individually personally and what you value. I think it's clear that a lot of people here are system builders that look for max power for minimum price and enjoy tinkering. Ironically, I am one of these people but also very much appreciate Apple and their products and software, particularly on the mobile side. IMO, there are things worth paying for in a computer that go beyond pure speed/benchmarks. But, to each their own.

A reasonable and informative post, if AT had reps, I'd +1 that. Thanks.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
Yeah, Windows doesn't scale at all - it's not made for it. OSX is built for the hardware, and Apple has created ultra high resolution (HiDPI) versions of everything - all icons, apps, etc. Which means all of the screen elements stay the same size, but look ridiculously crisp. OSX also allows you to scale so you can get more real estate if you choose.

Apple charges a LOT for their hardware, yes. But the build quality is beautiful, down to every detail. And for many, it's all about OSX - which is really an incredible operating system. Is that worth it? Depends on each individually personally and what you value. I think it's clear that a lot of people here are system builders that look for max power for minimum price and enjoy tinkering. Ironically, I am one of these people but also very much appreciate Apple and their products and software, particularly on the mobile side. IMO, there are things worth paying for in a computer that go beyond pure speed/benchmarks. But, to each their own.

Agree with everything here. I'm multi-platform and have converted to Apple for my mobile products which consists of a MacBook Air (dual booting win7/lion), iPad and iPhone. For my desktop I wouldn't dream of going Apple.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Wow, a lot of haters.

I have no love for Apple myself but the display on the MBP is superior to any windows based ultrabook and thats a fact. The PPI and pixel count of the MBP display is far superior to the best that intel ultrabooks offer, and I think asus offers a 1080 IPS display. The apple display is much better with more pixel density.

My problem with the MBP isn't performance, but the cost. You don't get enough for what you're paying, and OSX is a deal breaker for me. I don't expect apple to go over the top with hardware specs - anyone who thinks they should is probably a newbie because apple has never been about pushing hardware limits. Its just sad that PC / intel ultrabook makers can't put these features in faster and are constasntly playing catch up to apple - Apple had thunderbolt years before intel laptops (thunderbolt was CREATED by intel) and they had the ultra small form factor years before intel laptops. I can appreciate that even though I would never use their stuff.
 
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2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
I like Apple, but lets keep it real. They did not have TB "years" before PC laptops.

PCs implemented USB 3 well before Apple and it's arguably more useful than TB at present.
 

dajeepster

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2001
1,974
16
81
All i want to know is when are the 5760x3600 30' displays for under $2k going to be available.. :hmm:
 

dsc106

Senior member
May 31, 2012
320
10
81
I like Apple, but lets keep it real. They did not have TB "years" before PC laptops.

PCs implemented USB 3 well before Apple and it's arguably more useful than TB at present.

Yeah, Apple included Thunderbolt one year before PCs, but not because they are more cutting edge, only because they co-developed it with Intel and held a 1 year exclusivity agreement.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I like Apple, but lets keep it real. They did not have TB "years" before PC laptops.

PCs implemented USB 3 well before Apple and it's arguably more useful than TB at present.

The cabling for TB is much easier to manage and you can daisy chain items - furthermore, TB is twice is fast theoretically however in REAL WORLD use TB external hard drives perform 4-5 times faster than their usb 3.0 counterparts. Lastly, TB has enough bandwidth for external graphics - so you want external graphics for your ultrabook? TB can do it. You can even "upgrade" laptop graphics in this manner, although it has not come to fruition yet. TB is simply superior to USB 3.0.

I'm not an apple loyalist, but I have to give them props for forward thinking with better displays and adopting thunderport. I don't see why PC makers stagnate on this stuff, it just gives Apple more business when they combine their new features (retina display) with crap hardware. If PC laptop manufacturers added features at the same pace, Apple would be a mere blip on the radar. But they don't.
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Yeah, Apple included Thunderbolt one year before PCs, but not because they are more cutting edge, only because they co-developed it with Intel and held a 1 year exclusivity agreement.

Hmm, I wasn't aware of this. Where'd you find this info?
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
and I think asus offers a 1080 IPS display. The apple display is much better with more pixel density.

It's not far off though. The black is little better on the Macbook, but the white and contrast is better on the Zenbook UX21A. PPI is 190 for the UX21A and 220 for the Macbook, again pretty close.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5998/macbook-pro-retina-display-analysis

The only issue is that currently no 1080p capable Ultrabook exists. The UX21A/UX31A isn't here yet, although they will be soon.

Apple had thunderbolt years before intel laptops (thunderbolt was CREATED by intel) and they had the ultra small form factor years before intel laptops. I can appreciate that even though I would never use their stuff.

"Years" should be changed to "1 year". And yes its a join collaboration between Apple and Intel. It even says on the site for Thunderbolt: https://thunderbolttechnology.net/tech

Developed by Intel, and brought to market with technical collaboration from Apple. Thunderbolt™ technology

Regarding small form factor laptops. Intel had a concept called Metro that was essentially today's Macbook Air and Ultrabooks. Also the initial Macbook Air had custom packaged CPU from Intel.

http://gizmodo.com/263359/intel-unveils-metro-worlds-thinnest-laptop-almost-skinny-as-a-razr
 

drizek

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,410
0
71
I ordered the base model MBP. It still isn't here, but I got to play with one in the store today.

The display looks amazing. it is easily the best notebook display I've ever seen. Looking at the non-retina models next to it, they just look like crap. Not just in terms of sharpness but also in terms of viewing angles and color saturation. This is a seriously nice display and it should not be dismissed.

Scaling to 1920x1200 on the OS gives you a ton of usable screen area and looks amazing. The 1440x900 level of real estate is usable though. I'm looking forward to a true resolution independent OS though where you don't have to use scaled resolutions.

battery life is more like 5 hours (based on the OS X estimate) than 7 hours, but this is still worlds better than PC laptops.

You can get a PC with similar specs for about $700 less. It's kind of crazy, but the compromises you make in quality are real and, for me, are deal breakers.

The keyboard isn't as good as the old MBP. Being used to a mechanical desktop keyboard, I am pretty disappointed to be honest. I might end up buying a desktop as well just to be able to continue using my mechanical keyboard.

So regarding the CPU in this thing, how will the 2.3GHz compare to my 3.5Ghz 3-core Phenom II? Does it have 8-thread hyper threading? If so, that's kind of awesome.

Currently, I'm planning on getting rid of my gaming desktop. I can run games like Starcraft, Civ V and Diablo on the macbook. Meanwhile, I will be first in line to get a next-gen XBox or PS4. The reality is that PC gaming is quite unrewarding, and the best PC games are actually very much not graphically intensive. Consoles deliver gameplay with consistent frame rates and, overall a much smoother user experience [/disgruntled PC gamer]
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
The cabling for TB is much easier to manage and you can daisy chain items - furthermore, TB is twice is fast theoretically however in REAL WORLD use TB external hard drives perform 4-5 times faster than their usb 3.0 counterparts. Lastly, TB has enough bandwidth for external graphics - so you want external graphics for your ultrabook? TB can do it. You can even "upgrade" laptop graphics in this manner, although it has not come to fruition yet. TB is simply superior to USB 3.0.

I'm not an apple loyalist, but I have to give them props for forward thinking with better displays and adopting thunderport. I don't see why PC makers stagnate on this stuff, it just gives Apple more business when they combine their new features (retina display) with crap hardware. If PC laptop manufacturers added features at the same pace, Apple would be a mere blip on the radar. But they don't.

I'm fully aware of TBs technical superiority over USB 3. I didn't say USB 3 was better I said more useful. Just like USB 2 is more useful than FireWire 800. again, apple did not have a leg up on PCs in the form of "years" when it comes to TB
 

Dadofamunky

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2005
2,184
0
0
Haters gonna hate. PCs imitate.

Look at all those horrible ultrabooks for an example. Jeez, those are just crap. The ultimate me-too.

I'm actually considering ditching my desktop for good. I've been building them for sheesh, over 20 years now and I may be at the end of the line with the new MBP. Performance deltas, especially with an SSD riding shotgun, aren't as meaningful as they once were. For the productivity/creativity apps I run, I'm not sure the desktop is worth the massive amount of space it takes up. And overclocking is overrated. Sure, it's great to pick up the extra megacycles for free, but unless you're one of those rare people who requires every spare megacycle I just don't see it for me anymore.

It's not clock speed, it's I/O. With flash storage, the I/O picture is significantly improved. I don't game, so I could care less about spending $2K on SLI megacards to push Crysis 2 a few more FPS. If I can spend that on a better solution for the stuff I do, better portability and ergonomics, the value proposition is starting to look better to me. I can stick my large hard drives in a disk array and still have the mass storage I want too. Fact is, Apple actually does make better products in a lot of areas. Millions of engineers in this country use them exclusively. They must know something.
 
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Csx-2011

Junior Member
Jun 19, 2012
17
0
0
Retina display is a practically meaningless term. If you want a great display than you can buy a great display but buying something because it's a "Retina display" when you don't know what it means isn't a good idea. If you want a cheap retina display you can buy yourself a 1080p 21.5" monitor because that too is a retina display See what I mean about being meaningless?

2880x1800 compared to 1920x1080 for hi res photoshop is actually a ton of space. Perfect for what I do. I just cant afford it.
 

drizek

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,410
0
71
The i7 will stomp on the Phenom.

I just realized in the review that the quad core turbo goes all the way up to 3+ GHz. I'm excited, actually. Now I will have superior performance in all my apps.

They're taking their sweet time shipping this thing though :/
 
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