James Cameron vs John Carpenter

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Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
My favorite James Cameron produced work isn't even one of his movies. It's Dark Angel. It may have lost a lot of viewers at the start of the second season, but I still enjoyed both and wish it had a season or two more to truly wrap up the story.
 

88keys

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,854
12
81
If we could wash away the mess that was Avatar, there's not really a James Cameron directed movie that wasn't at least 'Good bordering Great'.

John Carpenter has some that are borderline 'B' movie mixed in with his greats.

A better comparison might be Ridley Scott vs. James Cameron. A lot of that is going to depend on how Prometheus fleshes out. Unless he bombs on the sequel(s), I think the future will be a lot kinder to Prometheus than the present.

I really don't think Avatar was that bad of a movie. It was very unoriginal coming from James Cameron. But it was entertaining and I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to make the story any deeper or more complicated than what it needed to be.
He wanted a story that everyone could grasp to make it entertaining for people of all ages.

I greatly appreciate originality but I don't really think is fair to denigrate a movie just because it's unoriginal. It's actually really hard to come up with something that hasn't been done before let alone do it right. And even if you do people will still accuse you of ripping them off like Harlan Ellison did (which was complete bullshit BTW).


Even great masterpieces like Star Wars are far from being completely original. Some people just need to learn how to enjoy a movie.

And now that I think of it. Star Wars (IV) is similar to Avatar in that aspect. But then again I think Star Wars is a bit overrated.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Avatar wasn't supposed to be a deep movie, it was supposed to be a visual spectacle for the time. From that standpoint (if you watched it in 3D/Imax and don't hate 3D) I think it succeeded. Other than that, it isn't a movie I would watch repeatedly.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Avatar wasn't supposed to be a deep movie, it was supposed to be a visual spectacle for the time. From that standpoint (if you watched it in 3D/Imax and don't hate 3D) I think it succeeded. Other than that, it isn't a movie I would watch repeatedly.

This.

Cameron started maximizing formulaic mainstream appeal a while back with Titanic, and Avatar was the culmination of that...both breaking all budget and box office sales records and vindicating his choices to do so.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
This.

Cameron started maximizing formulaic mainstream appeal a while back with Titanic, and Avatar was the culmination of that

That is exactly what it was. I kept thinking to myself "This is nothing more than a 2 1/2 hour video game intro".

...both breaking all budget and box office sales records and vindicating his choices to do so.

It wasn't really a vindication it was more just a play on the market and given the opportunity and ability I would have made the same movie. However, gate receipts don't make a movie good. Michael Bay has 4 recent movies starring robots that each made more than 700 million with the last two surpassing 1 billion in ticket sales. If that's how we rank great movies then AFI has a list or two that need to be redone.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,116
30,065
146
I really don't think Avatar was that bad of a movie. It was very unoriginal coming from James Cameron. But it was entertaining and I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to make the story any deeper or more complicated than what it needed to be.
He wanted a story that everyone could grasp to make it entertaining for people of all ages.

I greatly appreciate originality but I don't really think is fair to denigrate a movie just because it's unoriginal. It's actually really hard to come up with something that hasn't been done before let alone do it right. And even if you do people will still accuse you of ripping them off like Harlan Ellison did (which was complete bullshit BTW).


Even great masterpieces like Star Wars are far from being completely original. Some people just need to learn how to enjoy a movie.

And now that I think of it. Star Wars (IV) is similar to Avatar in that aspect. But then again I think Star Wars is a bit overrated.

Well, people seem to think Aliens is great...it really wasn't. It was a rather stupid movie overall, especially compared to the very great first film in the series.

Cameron has a lot of very, very good movies, and a whole lot of stupid movies. FWiW, Titanic is a very very good movie, even though I don't really like it. I like Aliens, even though it is pretty stupid....but it's decent enough.

As for Avatar--I hate 3D with unbridled fury and wish for it to die violently, but I enjoyed the one-time experience of watching that in the theater, in 3D. It was a phenomenal technical achievement, but that movie was nothing more than a tech demo. It was, indeed, a pretty terrible movie on its own...but it was entertaining enough and worth the 1 off experience (just as Star Wars IV was an outright terrible movie, but I love it nonetheless).

James Cameron doesn't set out to make bad, low-production movies: he makes fun, sometimes very good, but always rather expensive movies with serious production value. Sometimes they turn out not so great. With Carpenter, he knows exactly what he is going to give you, and delivers. He aims for mostly B-level nostalgia, and he never fails.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,094
14,413
146
Well, people seem to think Aliens is great...it really wasn't. It was a rather stupid movie overall, especially compared to the very great first film in the series.

Cameron has a lot of very, very good movies, and a whole lot of stupid movies. FWiW, Titanic is a very very good movie, even though I don't really like it. I like Aliens, even though it is pretty stupid....but it's decent enough.

As for Avatar--I hate 3D with unbridled fury and wish for it to die violently, but I enjoyed the one-time experience of watching that in the theater, in 3D. It was a phenomenal technical achievement, but that movie was nothing more than a tech demo. It was, indeed, a pretty terrible movie on its own...but it was entertaining enough and worth the 1 off experience (just as Star Wars IV was an outright terrible movie, but I love it nonetheless).

James Cameron doesn't set out to make bad, low-production movies: he makes fun, sometimes very good, but always rather expensive movies with serious production value. Sometimes they turn out not so great. With Carpenter, he knows exactly what he is going to give you, and delivers. He aims for mostly B-level nostalgia, and he never fails.

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,116
30,065
146

I liked Aliens a lot, it just was very different, and not nearly as good as Alien.

Alien: Horror (real horror--not this fake startle gore shit that the mouthbreathers seem to like these days)

Aliens: action/sci-fi. It suffers a bit from "timeliness": it's pretty obvious that this is a product of the 80s action genre of the day: the silly humor, the one-liners, the very good action sequences. Cameron is great at this, of course. I'm not implying anything negative about that.

Alien is more or less timeless.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,094
14,413
146
I liked Aliens a lot, it just was very different, and not nearly as good as Alien.

Alien: Horror (real horror--not this fake startle gore shit that the mouthbreathers seem to like these days)

Aliens: action/sci-fi. It suffers a bit from "timeliness": it's pretty obvious that this is a product of the 80s action genre of the day: the silly humor, the one-liners, the very good action sequences. Cameron is great at this, of course. I'm not implying anything negative about that.

Alien is more or less timeless.

I don't really disagree. Alien was a timeless horror movie. Aliens was a well done action movie with horror elements.

They're fairly different movies. I still think Alien has held up better than you suggest. The use of practical effects means it still looks good.

If you like the feeling of the original Alien. You may want to give Alien Isolation a play through. It looks just like the original.
 
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