Japan almost done shutting down entire nuclear power industry

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,656
491
126
Two things to say.

1. They sold Japan on the concept the nuclear reactors are safe safe safe and foolproof. Didn't quite turn out that way. And a small nation like Japan can't afford to lose a 100 square miles of land and have it radioactive for 50,000 years.

2. Hopefully thorium type nuclear reactors may prove to be far far far safer, because U235 based rectors are very dangerous. Especially those in Japan that were outmoded before they were built.

+1 to the bolded part
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Why all the hate and name calling?
Japan is looking out for Japan!
They live in a highly earthquake prone set of Islands.
Their population is dense.
As safe a Nuclear power plants are reputed to be.
In Japan that just is not true given all the things that can go wrong!


I personally favor advancements in nuclear power. But I don`t belittle Japan for doing what is the right thing to do in their situation!
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
JedfiY may be wise to heed his own advice to Japan, because Israel is in similar danger. \

A Tusananami hits the Mediterranean region at least once per century, and wave heights have been estimated at up to 20 meters.

http://www.tsunami-alarm-system.com/en/phenomenon-tsunami/occurrences-mediterranean.htm

http://forward.com/articles/123497/

And biblical history is also full of earthquakes in Israel. With Israel's last major quake in 1927, leaves small earth movements to build up more and more stress. My concern is mainly the Israeli breeder reactor reactor at dismona, its containment dome is already cracked and could meltdown with the effect of another Chernobyl.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Maybe we should look in our own backyard

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/international/news/20120309p2g00m0in144000c.html

High levels of cesium found at former nuclear lab outside L.A.

LOS ANGELES (Kyodo) -- High levels of radioactive cesium have been detected on the ground of a former nuclear facility in the suburbs of Los Angeles called the Santa Susana Field Laboratory, where an experimental nuclear reactor suffered fuel melting in 1959, according to U.S. government data obtained Thursday.

The data, provided to local residents in February as an interim report by the Environmental Protection Agency, which is examining the extent of contamination in the area, show that radioactive cesium measured up to about 7,300 becquerels per kilogram of soil, or nearly 1,000 times the benchmark used by the agency.

The area was decontaminated after the nuclear accident, and the U.S. Department of Energy, which was dealing with research there, declared in the 1980s that the land could now be used as farmland or for residential purposes.

The decision to conduct a detailed study was made in December 2010 after strong demands were lodged by local residents who have expressed health concerns for a long time.

The findings suggest that the Department of Energy had grossly underestimated the level of contamination in the area and have shown the difficulty of cleaning up soil contaminated with radioactive materials.

In Japan, which was hit by meltdowns at a nuclear power plant last March and the subsequent release of massive amounts of radioactive materials, rice cannot be grown in paddies if radioactive cesium detected there measures more than 5,000 becquerels per kg of soil.

The EPA sampled soil at 437 spots near the area where the troubled reactor used to be, and found higher levels of radioactive materials than normal at 75 of them. At seven spots, cesium measured over 100 times the standard, with the maximum reading of 957 times the standard.

The agency is expected to announce its results by the end of this year, with plans to finish decontamination work by 2017.

In the July 1959 accident, 13 of the 43 fuel rods partially melted after an experimental sodium coolant reactor suffered malfunctions. No one is believed to have died directly from the accident, which was the first fuel melting at a facility in the United States that provided electricity to the private sector.

The lab has also been known for its sloppy management of hazardous materials, having incinerated radioactive waste in an open yard at the site for two decades.

Accidents have periodically occurred at nuclear facilities in the United States, which has large nuclear weapons stockpiles and many nuclear reactors, but no accident or contamination as serious as the one at the Santa Susana Field Laboratory has occurred near a city as populous as Los Angeles, the second largest city in the country.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
JedfiY may be wise to heed his own advice to Japan, because Israel is in similar danger. \

A Tusananami hits the Mediterranean region at least once per century, and wave heights have been estimated at up to 20 meters.

http://www.tsunami-alarm-system.com/...iterranean.htm

http://forward.com/articles/123497/

And biblical history is also full of earthquakes in Israel. With Israel's last major quake in 1927, leaves small earth movements to build up more and more stress. My concern is mainly the Israeli breeder reactor reactor at dismona, its containment dome is already cracked and could meltdown with the effect of another Chernobyl.

Problem is God used plagues and other natural disasters to help his chosen people the Jews......


Yet we are talking the Bible which it would appear you know very little about...same as your stance on the Palestinians....
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Problem is God used plagues and other natural disasters to help his chosen people the Jews......


Yet we are talking the Bible which it would appear you know very little about...same as your stance on the Palestinians....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JediY, by in large the old testament of the bible has proved to be a fairly accurate historical document, with the possible glaring exception of Moses.

But I am not arrogant enough to say the natural disasters documented were for the benefit of Jews or anyone else. The whole Mid-east and large parts of the Mediterranean sea are a patchwork of subduction zones, rift valley's, all kinds of fault lines, moving in all kinds of different directions.

And I also take the US warning of Dari seriously.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
The way I see it, the nuclear industry had its chance. They fucked up and now they won't get a second chance. Thank goodness, because chances are they'd mess that one up too.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
The way I see it, the nuclear industry had its chance. They fucked up and now they won't get a second chance. Thank goodness, because chances are they'd mess that one up too.

The nuclear industry didn't "fuck up". It was corporate-government corruption. Nothing else, at least in Japan's case.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
The nuclear industry didn't "fuck up". It was corporate-government corruption. Nothing else, at least in Japan's case.


What are you talking about? The industry promised the reactors were safe, and they weren't. Yes, not being able to withstand a tsunami in Japan means unsafe.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,565
7,618
136
This is absolutely stunning to me. Japan is about as high-tech a society as you'll find, and is now shutting down all nuke plants, and talking about phasing them out permanently. That's absolutely mind boggling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46676913/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/

I understand why residents would be scared or wary of nuclear power, but to take a step backwards toward fossil fuels from existing nuclear power plants? That's crazy.

Nuclear disaster is a crisis few understand until there's an exclusion zone cutting a big hole through the heart of your country. Permanently.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
What are you talking about? The industry promised the reactors were safe, and they weren't. Yes, not being able to withstand a tsunami in Japan means unsafe.

They were safe. But safeguards were not put in place. Checks were not always carried out and the government covered these things up because it did not want to scare people. Japan had a similar nuclear scare like 8 or 9 years ago. Again, it was because inspections were not carried out and there were cracks in the reactor buildings. To be honest, this is more the failure of the government for not doing its job than the electrical company. The government had the responsibility and power but failed to act accordingly.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
What are you talking about? The industry promised the reactors were safe, and they weren't. Yes, not being able to withstand a tsunami in Japan means unsafe.

So since coal plants have had a much larger detrimental impact on health, lives, and the environment, does that mean they've had their chance, and we should just shut all of those down as well. Looks like the Amish have a current jump on technology.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Gates is selling stake in some new nuclear IP to China. They're going to push forward with far more advanced designs on the cheap that will eat up waste. Watch countries start to pay China to get rid of their nuclear waste, which they'll just use as fuel. Lol. It's like the oil industries paying people to take the coke waste from their refining processes before they realized they could make a few billion a year off of it. lol
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
So since coal plants have had a much larger detrimental impact on health, lives, and the environment, does that mean they've had their chance, and we should just shut all of those down as well. Looks like the Amish have a current jump on technology.

When has a coal power plant melted down and released nuclear waste into the ground and oceans that will last for thousands of years? Low level pollution with detrimental effects spread out over space and time are very different from an accident poisoning the earth for millennia.
 

Ryan711

Member
Jun 23, 2004
149
0
76
When has a coal power plant melted down and released nuclear waste into the ground and oceans that will last for thousands of years? Low level pollution with detrimental effects spread out over space and time are very different from an accident poisoning the earth for millennia.


You mean like CO2 climate change?
 

leper84

Senior member
Dec 29, 2011
989
29
86
You can easily shut it down without external resources, you just cannot keep it cool after you do.

Except in a Liquid fluoride thorium reactor, where when it overheats a salt plug at the bottom of the reactor melts, spills out the fluoride/thorium molten salt mix, and the dispersement stops the nuclear reaction. No meltdown, no explosions. Once the water comes down put in a new plug, melt the salt in the catch pan and stuff it back in the reactor.

I swear I'm gonna turn into a Thorium troll.
 
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mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
When has a coal power plant melted down and released nuclear waste into the ground and oceans that will last for thousands of years? Low level pollution with detrimental effects spread out over space and time are very different from an accident poisoning the earth for millennia.

Coal plants are constantly releasing radioactive material into the environment. This is in addition to mercury and several pollutant gases that spread out and affect the environment for hundreds of miles around the plant. And that is just in the burning process. Now take into account the process of mining the coal with all of the deaths, injuries, cancers and other health issues that have occurred as a result, and the total impacts far outweigh those caused by the nuclear industry. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, these are simply tolerated because the casualties are smaller incidents spread out over time, but with a much larger total impact.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Coal plants are constantly releasing radioactive material into the environment. This is in addition to mercury and several pollutant gases that spread out and affect the environment for hundreds of miles around the plant. And that is just in the burning process. Now take into account the process of mining the coal with all of the deaths, injuries, cancers and other health issues that have occurred as a result, and the total impacts far outweigh those caused by the nuclear industry. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, these are simply tolerated because the casualties are smaller incidents spread out over time, but with a much larger total impact.

Tell me what would have happened if the Fukushima plant was coal powered.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Given time, they will get over it. Especially if that time includes some hot summer days without AC.

Say what you will about those people but they do know how to take a sacrifice for their country.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
Say what you will about those people but they do know how to take a sacrifice for their country.

They would probably put up with more than we would; but if our roles were reversed, I know most people here would be begging to have their reactors back (just not sure what we would miss first, the power for our AC, or to charge our iPads).
 
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