Japan almost done shutting down entire nuclear power industry

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
IMO, it's too, too, too risky to keep operating inherently dangerous reactors indefinitely, so if we MUST do nuclear, lets minimize the risks and start getting rid of 40+ year old reactors right away. I really don't care what it costs, because the cost of NOT doing it is too great. Apparently, a vast majority the Japanese population feels the same way, and I can't blame them one bit.

This is the issue...the reactor plants are all past their expected end of life.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
81
Hmmm. Those Germans and Japanese must all be idiots.

I guess we Americans have nothing to learn from them?
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
In any significantly unusual event a plant's safety systems will automatically scram the reactor (fully insert control rods) and cut steam to the turbines to isolate the reactor in case of damage....continuing to run the reactor in a damaged state could make things far worse. Off site and/or backup power then kicks in to run the critical systems and cooling loop to manage the decay heat still being generated by the core. This is what happened at Fukushima until the wave hit and took out the diesel generators and damaged electrical switchgear that made it impossible to power the cooling system after the emergency batteries failed.

Modern designs have greatly expanded the passive safety features of nuclear plants. In the new Gen III+ reactors this accident would not even have been possible.


I believe the passive shut down reactors have been available since the 70s, but neither we or Japan have built any. They cost a little more. Yeah, fuck the nuclear industry.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
As an aside, anyone know where the term SCRAM came from for shutting down the reactor? It comes from the earliest reactors where the rods were lifted and dropped via ropes and pullies. SCRAM means Shutdown Critical Reactor Axe Man...a man would run in with an axe and chop all the ropes, dropping the absorption rods to the bottom instantly, thereby instantly shutting down the reactor.

Ah...the good ol days. LOL
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,031
2,601
136
Everyday I lose a little more faith in humanity. Everyday... In a 100 years we may devolve back to horses and mules at the rate we're going here.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Everyday I lose a little more faith in humanity. Everyday... In a 100 years we may devolve back to horses and mules at the rate we're going here.


More likely we'll finally get serious about emerging energy technology.

The horror...
 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
As an aside, anyone know where the term SCRAM came from for shutting down the reactor? It comes from the earliest reactors where the rods were lifted and dropped via ropes and pullies. SCRAM means Shutdown Critical Reactor Axe Man...a man would run in with an axe and chop all the ropes, dropping the absorption rods to the bottom instantly, thereby instantly shutting down the reactor.

Ah...the good ol days. LOL

Or is it?
http://public-blog.nrc-gateway.gov/2011/05/17/putting-the-axe-to-the-scram-myth/
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,215
5,075
146
You can easily shut it down without external resources, you just cannot keep it cool after you do. You need power to run the pumps. This power has to come from somewhere, and it was supposed to come from diesel generators. However, these generators were under water.

How high should the protection be, 1,000 feet? You know, just incase an asteroid hits the Pacific Ocean? That is what I mean, you build it to a most likely scenario, then a little safer. You cannot protect against everything. Simply not possible.
It is simple topology. The hill 300 yards behind the plant was high and dry. It would cost x amount of dollars to locate a plant that much farther away from cooling water, and x amount was too much, or they thought in their arrogance they "had it covered". This was by no means the largest tsunami in Japan's recorded history.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
It is simple topology. The hill 300 yards behind the plant was high and dry. It would cost x amount of dollars to locate a plant that much farther away from cooling water, and x amount was too much, or they thought in their arrogance they "had it covered". This was by no means the largest tsunami in Japan's recorded history.

What do you do when a bigger wave hits and covers that hill? Come here and say how they should have built them on tsunami proof stilts?
 

Joepublic2

Golden Member
Jan 22, 2005
1,114
6
76
It is simple topology. The hill 300 yards behind the plant was high and dry. It would cost x amount of dollars to locate a plant that much farther away from cooling water, and x amount was too much, or they thought in their arrogance they "had it covered". This was by no means the largest tsunami in Japan's recorded history.

Yeah I'd agree with you that if you're in a region that gets hit with random tsunamis it would have been prudent to build the reactor on the highest ground in a given area... Do you have a link about the topology of the area?
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,215
5,075
146
I looked at it in google earth back when it happened, it is a very nice elevation tool.
The absolute top of a hill would be bad, you want flat area for the cooling pond.
The parking lot directly behind the plant is between 145 and 165 feet above sea level. The plant is at 29 feet.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,215
5,075
146
It is the cooling costs that prompt putting them right on a river, shore, etc.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
I really don't blame them.

As for the rest of the world, we should learn from their mistakes and carry on with what remains as one of the best sources of energy today.
 
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