Java v.s .NET job?

[SONYFX]

From what I have seen during my job search, Java has a much higher growth ceiling, what do you guys think? I am a new grad and is contemplating which way to go.

 

[SONYFX]

bump

 

[MrChad]

Go both ways

As a developer, you'll probably need skills in both at some point or another. Some clients will be "Microsoft shops" and develop exclusively on Microsoft platforms using Microsoft technologies. These clients will likely want .NET expertise. Other clients prefer *nix-based environments or mixed-platform environments. These clients are more likely to use Java as their technology platform. Both options are pretty popular these days, and it's not too difficult to switch back and forth (C# and Java have a number of syntactical similarities). Your best bet is to have at least rudimentary knowledge in both technologies.

 

[kamper]

To add to that, there are also plenty of java jobs that are windows based I've done 2 java jobs. First was develop and deploy on windows and second was windows/aix, although I never saw the aix half of it.

That's a rough decision to have to make after graduating. The best way to do it is to get co-op jobs while in school so you get a real taste of what you like with only a short term commitment. I've done the java thing and I think that's where my career will probably be, but I'm still aiming to get a .NET job at some point before picking my first full time job.

I'd look for non-permanent jobs and try stuff out to see what you like doing. Maybe get some contract positions if you can. Maybe even a job where both are available?

 

[Jeff Peake]

C# and Java have a number of syntactical similarities

Yeah, like 95% identical. Which is a good thing.

I graduated in 99. I started out working on a ASP/Sql Server project for about a year. Then learned java for a project using EJB / JSP / Oracle. After doing Java for a couple years, I switched to .Net and have been doing that ever since.

.Net is very very similar to Java. With the exception of Java's EJB framework, which thankfully has no similarity to anything else.

If you learn JSP / Servlets you will be in good shape if you need (or want) to switch to .Net.

I personally prefer .Net (both windows and web flavors), to Java. I find Visual Studio to be much nicer development environment than what I remember using with Java (used mostly NetBeans, which was ok but not nearly as nice as visual studio). ASP.Net has some nice features that were lacking in JSP, and .Net 2.0 (which went final last week) adds even more.

Jeff

 

[kamper]

With the exception of Java's EJB framework, which thankfully has no similarity to anything else.

lol

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

I do .NET platform (VB.NET lang) at the coop job and Java in school. Well, there's other languages in school but Java is the big one at least right now.

I like .NET better so far but haven't used Java in a business environment.

 

[SONYFX]

bump

 

[kamper]

Ok, here's a bit of a test. Do you like chaos and freedom or a slick environment and less freedom? Probably any .NET place will have the super-integrated setup that ms tries to create. You'll have an expensive IDE that you can't use at home short of piracy but you might get lots of nice training and support while at work. With java, you might get a job like that, if the company is in bed with, say, IBM. Or you might get a company that likes open source and uses things like eclipse and jboss (well, you'd still get eclipse with IBM, but it'd be different). In that case, you have the advantages of being able to peek into the internals of every tool you're using and you can download it all at home for free to play with. You have the disadvantage (if you view it that way) of added complexity.

I personally prefer the chaos as you learn more, feel more free and it keeps you on your toes.

 

[rsd]

Originally posted by: kamper
Ok, here's a bit of a test. Do you like chaos and freedom or a slick environment and less freedom? Probably any .NET place will have the super-integrated setup that ms tries to create. You'll have an expensive IDE that you can't use at home short of piracy but you might get lots of nice training and support while at work. With java, you might get a job like that, if the company is in bed with, say, IBM. Or you might get a company that likes open source and uses things like eclipse and jboss (well, you'd still get eclipse with IBM, but it'd be different). In that case, you have the advantages of being able to peek into the internals of every tool you're using and you can download it all at home for free to play with. You have the disadvantage (if you view it that way) of added complexity.

I personally prefer the chaos as you learn more, feel more free and it keeps you on your toes.

Umm that makes no sense frankly. If you want to do .NET there are free alternatives to using Visual Studio .NET (for example Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition from ASP.NET). Then you just need IIS which iirc is built into XP Pro and MCE. Plus there are tons of articles and the MSDN out there on .NET and various controls.

So your argument is badly flawed, however java vs .NET imho varies on the job/company. Learn how to program and it won't matter frankly. I had never done .NET Or VB coming out of school (c, c++, some java, etc etc), and have been doing VB.NET the last 3 years.

 

[kamper]

I'm not laying out rules for the entire industry. It's just been my experience that you're more likely to run across less integrated toolsets in a java job than in .NET. I will fully admit, I've got limited experience. This is just from two companies who happened to use both environments.

 

[boran]

then you have not met Eclipse.

Imho the choice of a language is entirely down to the design and developement tools available, not the language itself. and i'm kind of in love with eclipse so i'd prefer java. but Visual Studio 2003 is also a nice IDE, but could be smarter imho. The thing I miss most in the .NEt languages is an easy to browse doc of what everything does, (javadoc) I know there are docs, but somehow they arent as flexibe als a simple webpage to me.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: boran
then you have not met Eclipse.

Was that to me? I definitely have used eclipse, and spent lots of time setting it up to remotely debug JBoss applications I know it's getting better, but the out-of-the-box integration isn't there yet.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: kamper

Originally posted by: boran
then you have not met Eclipse.

Was that to me? I definitely have used eclipse, and spent lots of time setting it up to remotely debug JBoss applications I know it's getting better, but the out-of-the-box integration isn't there yet.

I thought Eclipse was suppose to come in bland flavour. The user adds whatever custom mix of plug-in as he/she choose, therefore it's slim as possible, yet still perfectly suited for your need.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Originally posted by: kamper
Ok, here's a bit of a test. Do you like chaos and freedom or a slick environment and less freedom? Probably any .NET place will have the super-integrated setup that ms tries to create. You'll have an expensive IDE that you can't use at home short of piracy but you might get lots of nice training and support while at work. With java, you might get a job like that, if the company is in bed with, say, IBM. Or you might get a company that likes open source and uses things like eclipse and jboss (well, you'd still get eclipse with IBM, but it'd be different). In that case, you have the advantages of being able to peek into the internals of every tool you're using and you can download it all at home for free to play with. You have the disadvantage (if you view it that way) of added complexity.

I personally prefer the chaos as you learn more, feel more free and it keeps you on your toes.

At least until I get out of school I get everything like Visual Studio, SQL Server, etc free/legal from MSDN Academic Alliance (e-academy).

 

[Jeff Peake]

The thing I miss most in the .NEt languages is an easy to browse doc of what everything does, (javadoc)

C# supports this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/02/06/XMLC/default.aspx. From Visual Studio you select "Tools -> Build Comment Web Pages" to extract the XML comments and turn them into javadoc style web pages.

With VB.Net, I think you have to use a 3rd-party tool like nDoc.

Jeff

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: razor2025

Originally posted by: kamper

Originally posted by: boran
then you have not met Eclipse.

Was that to me? I definitely have used eclipse, and spent lots of time setting it up to remotely debug JBoss applications I know it's getting better, but the out-of-the-box integration isn't there yet.

I thought Eclipse was suppose to come in bland flavour. The user adds whatever custom mix of plug-in as he/she choose, therefore it's slim as possible, yet still perfectly suited for your need.

'Slim' is definitely the wrong word for describing eclipse. It comes with a ton of functionality out of the box, just very little for integrating with specific other tools, like databases or app servers. Those can be added, thanks to a flexible plugin system, and they are improving, but they still don't compare to the situation where a vendor actually does the integration for you. IE, either ships a modified version of eclipse or their own ide altogether.