java with XPpro

[gateT]

Searching here and java site I may have found the answer but just to clarify. You need to install java VM before you can install Java on updated (sp1a) XP.

Upgraded a system for a friend of mine (new HD & OS).He needs to install Java to edit his AOL homepage but he says when he trys to run the .exe a message pops up saying he has the wrong version of windows. Something about 16 bit as opposed to 64????

Anyway I know nothing about Java so any insight into this would help. The Java site has a lot of different downloads,J2EE 1.4,J2SE 1.4.2 etc.....What does he need for webpage editing-besides Java VM

 

[valky]

Anyway I know nothing about Java so any insight into this would help. The Java site has a lot of different downloads,J2EE 1.4,J2SE 1.4.2 etc.....What does he need for webpage editing-besides Java VM

Its not new about the war between Bill Gates and Sun (who owns Java) that Java has been taken out of windows because of a disagreement. Windows writes its own Java now and of course Sun writes Java for windows users but the catch is you need to select one or the other and download it yourself or java wont be in Internet Explorer and its used by just about everyone on the internet .........

 

[gateT]

Does firebird have java built in?

 

[johnjkr1]

The easiest thing to do is get SP1, (just search for xpsp1_en_x86.exe) not sp1a....it is still available online and includes microsofts JVM, which is far better than that thing you download from Sun. The download from sun was slow and liked to crash.

 

[gateT]

Can you just remove sp1a with add/remove and then run the sp1 .exe?

 

[johnjkr1]

I have never tried that, but it sounds like it might work

 

[CQuinn]

removing sp1 would also remove the Java VM.

You may not need to find the older SP1, you can still get the standalone java installer.

Check here

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: johnjkr1
The easiest thing to do is get SP1, (just search for xpsp1_en_x86.exe) not sp1a....it is still available online and includes microsofts JVM, which is far better than that thing you download from Sun. The download from sun was slow and liked to crash.

Bunch of BS.

If you need Java technologies, then get it from the source:
http://java.sun.com/

 

[johnjkr1]

Manly, it just so happens that I have tried both. I find the one from sun to be slow and buggy. That's what I have seen from using it and I prefer the speed of the java vm that comes with the original SP1. Just like everything else, it is personal preference.

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: johnjkr1
Manly, it just so happens that I have tried both. I find the one from sun to be slow and buggy. That's what I have seen from using it and I prefer the speed of the java vm that comes with the original SP1. Just like everything else, it is personal preference.

The Microsoft VM was built on the "standards" of Java 1.1. It didn't even closely follow those. In order to gain speed it threw out most of the debugging tools. It blindly runs, when encountering errors it tries to silently step right on past them. It is by no means, superior, better, and people really need to stop recommending its use.

If you want to be able to get a full java experience you need a modern java virtual machine (Sun, IBM, even others). Keeping around the legacy microsoft version just adds restrictions on what you can and cannot do.

Sun even makes it nice and easy to get now: http://www.java.com Click the big "Get it now" button in the upper right. It isn't a matter of personal preference, the Sun JVM runs circles around the MS JVM in features, compatibility, and most importantly, the area of running correctly.

For a little more background on just how out of date the MS JVM is:
Even Apple got around to releasing a VM based on Java 1.1.8 for OS 8/9 a few years ago. (Of course OS X gets to enjoy a fully-compatible VM based on 1.4.2).

 

[Sunner]

The file you want should be named something like j2sdk-1_4_2-windows-i586.exe.
I imagine the JRE(just runtime, not dev tools) would be named similarly, except for jre instead of sdk.

 

[johnjkr1]

"It isn't a matter of personal preference, the Sun JVM runs circles around the MS JVM in features, compatibility, and most importantly, the area of running correctly. "

It certainly is a matter of preference. I am not a Java Developer. I don't need a debugger. And I happen to like it being faster. I have NEVER ran into a problem with microsoft VM, whereas I constantly have problems with the sun one.

 

[Unforgiven]

the sun one runs horribly slow for me. i never had any issues with the microsoft virtual machine but the sun java hangs constantly and is slow to load!

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: johnjkr1
"It isn't a matter of personal preference, the Sun JVM runs circles around the MS JVM in features, compatibility, and most importantly, the area of running correctly. "

It certainly is a matter of preference. I am not a Java Developer. I don't need a debugger. And I happen to like it being faster. I have NEVER ran into a problem with microsoft VM, whereas I constantly have problems with the sun one.

It only loosely followed the standards of 4 years ago, it doesn't even follow the correct specs (error handling procedures are part of the Java VM spec, whether MS wants them to be or not).

It does not execute some code correctly, it does not execute some code at all. Regardless of if you think it is faster (which is a debatable point) if it doesn't run correctly or at all, it doesn't matter. That's why it isn't a matter of personal preference. I can think of several situations where you *need* at least a Java 1.3 compatible VM, which the MS JVM is not. Recommending the MS JVM to anyone at this point is simply bad advice.

Perhaps for your uses you might be able to skate by with it, but there are too many situations where it isn't even a option to tell a random person on the internet to use it.

 

[johnjkr1]

Can you provide me an example where it fails to work properly?

 

[Kilrsat]

Here is a really simple example:

import java.awt.Color;

public class Fact {

public static void main(String [] args) {
try {
Color temp = new Color(-11, 300, 10);
System.out.println("no exception");
System.out.println("execution should stop, but MS JVM is doing funny things");
System.out.println("Red=" + temp.getRed());
System.out.println("Green=" + temp.getGreen());
System.out.println("Blue=" + temp.getBlue());
} catch (Exception e) {
System.out.println("exception caught");
System.out.println(e);
}
}
}


Output using Sun's JVM:
exception caught
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Color parameter outside of expected range: Red Green

Output using MS JVM:
Color parameter outside of expected range: Red Green
no exception
execution should stop, but MS JVM is doing funny things
Red=245
Green=44
Blue=10

I wanted RGB -11, 300, 10. If I do something stupid like that, the program should not continue executing. MS decided that I really wanted 245, 44, 10. A completely different color.

 

[doan]

You can download JVM here. Then run windows update to get the latest version. It seems to launch much faster than sun java.

 

[MrChad]

It's unfortunate that there are many applets out there that will only operate under Microsoft's peculiar version of Java. However, even if you may prefer the more lightweight Microsoft JVM, the new standard for IE users is the Java Plug-in, and web developers are going to be designing accordingly now and in the future.

 

[valky]

"It isn't a matter of personal preference, the Sun JVM runs circles around the MS JVM in features, compatibility, and most importantly, the area of running correctly. "

Sun just so happens to own and develope Java and everyone uses it on the internet. Not just with windows but every other program on the internet uses it. The stink about all this is really that when using Microsofts JVM it only supports Microsofts interests and that leaves the users in a quandry when they cross a java script and it wont open for them. Big Business is one thing but a personal war between the company owners is something else. Why do I need to be a part of it.........

 

[johnjkr1]

I see your point Kilrsat, and its a good one. But I was hoping for a real world example like on a common webpage. My only point is that, in the real world, Microsoft's java VM works just fine, and in many cases, better than Sun's download. Plenty of "technically superior" products fail because they aren't that good in real uses, for instance, when I use Sun's downloadable Java VM, my machine runs slower, webpages crash more and take longer to load.

 

[Kilrsat]

Fine, here's a real world example:
Navisphere 6.2.0

The management software for our SAN will not run on anything that isn't at least Java 1.3.1 compatible. Software to support $50,000+ hardware (So no, its not half-assed or anything like that), will not run on the MS JVM.

Happy now? I've given you a simple example where the MS JVM does not execute code correctly, and a real world example where it does not run period. The MS JVM is old news, its deprecated, its outdated, and it should be left to finally die the death its been struggling towards for the last 3 years.

 

[gateT]

Thanks guys for all the info.Seems like one of the two should fix his problem.Just having a hard time hooking up with him in order to try it out.

Thanks again!