Jeffrey Epstein Commits Suicide at Manhattan Jail

[Muse]

Suicide....

And Jack Ruby was just as angry patriot who shot Lee Harvey Oswald all on his own.



________________

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[fskimospy]

Quite frankly I think there's no possibility that I will ever be convinced that he committed suicide. Absolutely none. A jailer could have been paid off and let in parties that did the deed. There's certainly reason to suspect this happened and no person or piece(s) of evidence can prove it didn't happen. Super powerful people had reason to fear JE. Super powerful people can make villainous things happen. History has shown us this again and again. Sometimes it's obviously murder, other times they make it appear to be an accident, natural causes or suicide. Everyone has enemies, having powerful enemies is scary. Maybe it was suicide, but nothing will convince me it wasn't murder.

A medical can determine with "reasonable accuracy" if a death was a suicide, yes, but only in some circumstances. I don't think this is one of those.

If you are saying that no evidence can change your mind that means your position isn’t rational.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Medical examiners can tell the difference between suicide and murder as people who dont want to die tend to fight that quite a bit. There will be a struggle, and struggles leave evidence. Lack of evidence of such a struggle is pretty conclusive. The idea that an ME would be unable to tell the difference between the two events is unlikely.

 

[Commodus]

Quite frankly I think there's no possibility that I will ever be convinced that he committed suicide. Absolutely none. A jailer could have been paid off and let in parties that did the deed. There's certainly reason to suspect this happened and no person or piece(s) of evidence can prove it didn't happen. Super powerful people had reason to fear JE. Super powerful people can make villainous things happen. History has shown us this again and again. Sometimes it's obviously murder, other times they make it appear to be an accident, natural causes or suicide. Everyone has enemies, having powerful enemies is scary. Maybe it was suicide, but nothing will convince me it wasn't murder.

A medical can determine with "reasonable accuracy" if a death was a suicide, yes, but only in some circumstances. I don't think this is one of those.

And that's a shame, because it means you're no better than a 9/11 'truther' on that front -- you reject the basic concept that available evidence should dictate the conclusion, or lack thereof.

It would be fairer to say that you can't completely exclude the possibility of murder, but that the credible evidence points to suicide. He'd tried to kill himself before; he had motivations to do it; the autopsy is consistent with descriptions of what happened. Likewise, there is no evidence to suggest that someone came into his cell to kill him.

One of the things I've learned over the years is that the truth is often a lot less exciting than we want it to be, and that we have a bad habit of clinging to the fantasy when we don't want to come to terms with the reality. It's easier to imagine an elaborate plot to kill Epstein than to deal with the possibility that it was just a screw up.

 

[cytg111]

Quite frankly I think there's no possibility that I will ever be convinced that he committed suicide. Absolutely none. A jailer could have been paid off and let in parties that did the deed. There's certainly reason to suspect this happened and no person or piece(s) of evidence can prove it didn't happen. Super powerful people had reason to fear JE. Super powerful people can make villainous things happen. History has shown us this again and again. Sometimes it's obviously murder, other times they make it appear to be an accident, natural causes or suicide. Everyone has enemies, having powerful enemies is scary. Maybe it was suicide, but nothing will convince me it wasn't murder.

A medical can determine with "reasonable accuracy" if a death was a suicide, yes, but only in some circumstances. I don't think this is one of those.

To me its a 50/50 ... Suicide? Sure, smart enough to fool his surroundings including psych and lawyer in regards to mental health... On the other hand, I imagine he was a high prize target... It just too damn convenient that he offs him self like that.. And all the pieces that has to fall into place to make it happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

Medical examiners can tell the difference between suicide and murder as people who dont want to die tend to fight that quite a bit. There will be a struggle, and struggles leave evidence. Lack of evidence of such a struggle is pretty conclusive. The idea that an ME would be unable to tell the difference between the two events is unlikely.

It's one of the stupidest conspiracy theories ever. It's the middle of the night & there's nothing going on in the jail. Nobody coming or going. There are multiple layers of guards & locked doors between Epstein & the outside. Probably considerable video surveillance of the entries & the corridors. Very quiet & very boring, which is how the two guards inside the locked unit managed to fall asleep at the same time. There's no guarantee that the usual 30 minute checks would have saved Epstein, anyway, given that he'd have been dead in 10 minutes or less.

 

[IronWing]

JFK killed Epstein. I'd say he blew his own cover but Oswald did that for him.

 

[Victorian Gray]

seems appropriate

 

[Perknose]

Speaking of conspiracy theories, Bill Maher just revealed that DNA evidence on Monica Lewinsky's blue dress showed there was a "second shooter."

 

[Victorian Gray]

Speaking of conspiracy theories, Bill Maher just revealed that DNA evidence on Monica Lewinsky's blue dress showed there was a "second shooter."

grroooaaannn

 

[CZroe]

Guys. Calm down. It was me.

I used sleeping gas, which is why no one heard anything and the coroner found no evidence of a struggle and had to rule it "suicide." It's also how both guards fell asleep at the same time. I would've cleared all this up sooner but I was geeking for days on the stimulants I took to counteract the gas and then, of course, I crashed down from the uppers and had to sleep/recover before I could function again. I finally woke yesterday but had to clean up (you don't wanna know), hydrate, check the date, order a pizza, check my bank account, and catch up on the thread.

No, I will not be answering questions. I've probably said too much already due to this massive hangover and other lingering effects from that night. Just wanted to end the rampant speculation before I go back to sleep.

Yeah, I'm already tired again. I think one of my spare cannisters might have a bit of a leaky valve but I'm staying in a fancy hotel tonight. G'night, everybody.

 

[Muse]

Medical examiners can tell the difference between suicide and murder as people who dont want to die tend to fight that quite a bit. There will be a struggle, and struggles leave evidence. Lack of evidence of such a struggle is pretty conclusive. The idea that an ME would be unable to tell the difference between the two events is unlikely.

Aha! Good point... however, the ME would feel pressure to look at suspicious evidence askance given the anticipated brouhaha following any hint that it might have been a case of murder. ME could feel the cold wind on his/her neck... you like your job? Play nice.

Besides, we can believe (if we wish) that he did try to off himself 2-3 weeks ago. In that event, he may have been confronted with a person or persons who convinced him to allow them to kill him. Could this have been done in a manner to allow the ME to overlook any evidence of that being the case? Possibly.

 

[Muse]

And that's a shame, because it means you're no better than a 9/11 'truther' on that front -- you reject the basic concept that available evidence should dictate the conclusion, or lack thereof.

It would be fairer to say that you can't completely exclude the possibility of murder, but that the credible evidence points to suicide. He'd tried to kill himself before; he had motivations to do it; the autopsy is consistent with descriptions of what happened. Likewise, there is no evidence to suggest that someone came into his cell to kill him.

One of the things I've learned over the years is that the truth is often a lot less exciting than we want it to be, and that we have a bad habit of clinging to the fantasy when we don't want to come to terms with the reality. It's easier to imagine an elaborate plot to kill Epstein than to deal with the possibility that it was just a screw up.

You can believe what you want to believe, and I think your screed there just bolsters that. Sure, it's possible he killed himself, plain and simple. But I can't conclude that from what I know. If you chose to believe that he did, fine. That's you. And no, there's no shame in my position... no way.

 

[Muse]

If you are saying that no evidence can change your mind that means your position isn’t rational.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there will be no evidence coming forth that will change my position. I can't imagine any. What would? A suicide note? Please...

 

[cytg111]

It's one of the stupidest conspiracy theories ever. It's the middle of the night & there's nothing going on in the jail. Nobody coming or going. There are multiple layers of guards & locked doors between Epstein & the outside. Probably considerable video surveillance of the entries & the corridors. Very quiet & very boring, which is how the two guards inside the locked unit managed to fall asleep at the same time. There's no guarantee that the usual 30 minute checks would have saved Epstein, anyway, given that he'd have been dead in 10 minutes or less.

OR
1. Someone(s) gave Epstein incentive to do him self in.
2. Someone(s) made sure Epstein had to means and method to do it.
3. Someones(s) made sure that guard duty was slacking off.
4. Someones(s) eased Epsteins removal from suicide list.
5...... 6..... 7.....
But yea, someone entering the cell and choking the bitch out sound idiotic. I think some of you watch too many movies. If 2016 has taught us anything it is that its all about the sum of the little things...

 

[pmv]

I'm sure it was suicide. But I'm still suspicious of Prince Andrew (not for this death, just in general - never liked or trusted the guy). Dershowitz too.

This death had better not curtail a full investigation of the whole affair.

 

[Jhhnn]

1. Someone(s) gave Epstein incentive to do him self in.

Like federal prosecutors? You may be onto something...

 

[HomerJS]

OR
1. Someone(s) gave Epstein incentive to do him self in.
2. Someone(s) made sure Epstein had to means and method to do it.
3. Someones(s) made sure that guard duty was slacking off.
4. Someones(s) eased Epsteins removal from suicide list.
5...... 6..... 7.....
But yea, someone entering the cell and choking the bitch out sound idiotic. I think some of you watch too many movies. If 2016 has taught us anything it is that its all about the sum of the little things...

Also...
Someone(s) made sure JE's cellmate was removed which is standard practice for someone coming off suicide watch.

 

[allisolm]

Sure, it's possible he killed himself, plain and simple. But I can't conclude that from what I know.

What is it that you "know" that the rest of us don't?

What I "know" is that the ME who did the autopsy said he committed suicide and the ME "knows" a lot more than I do and a lot more than you do about it.

 

[cytg111]

This is the usual mistake people at large make.
People review the evidence and then make up their mind as to
either

100% this was a suicide
or
100% this was homicide

While I will argue a better approach will to give it odds, even so in descriptive language : I find it highly unlikely (say 10%) that it was homicide ... And keep in mind that whenever you assign 100% to something you are probably doing it wrong.
Anyway, personally I am not closing the door on nefarious circumstances here.

 

[cytg111]

Also...
Someone(s) made sure JE's cellmate was removed which is standard practice for someone coming off suicide watch.

And the coroner deemed it a suicide no less. Sure.

Lets put it another way, dude is dead, did anyone have motive? Big motive? Hugest motive? Coroner says its suicide : Everybody else, ok then, next!
Common. I am sure we can all agree we are going to be needing more than that.

 

[Commodus]

You can believe what you want to believe, and I think your screed there just bolsters that. Sure, it's possible he killed himself, plain and simple. But I can't conclude that from what I know. If you chose to believe that he did, fine. That's you. And no, there's no shame in my position... no way.

I believe the evidence, and the preponderance of evidence points to suicide. I need actual evidence of foul play to believe it, and so far there is none.

Tell a scientist or lawyer that you don't care about actual evidence, just hunches, and see how they react. Something tells me they'll disagree with your "no shame" position.

 

[Jhhnn]

What is it that you "know" that the rest of us don't?

What I "know" is that the ME who did the autopsy said he committed suicide and the ME "knows" a lot more than I do and a lot more than you do about it.

If there were a video of Epstein killing himself the conspiratards would claim it to be fake.

 

[cytg111]

What is it that you "know" that the rest of us don't?

What I "know" is that the ME who did the autopsy said he committed suicide and the ME "knows" a lot more than I do and a lot more than you do about it.

How about a couple of metric tons of motive?

 

[Jhhnn]

How about a couple of metric tons of motive?

For Epstein to kill himself?

Too obvious...