Question Jen Sung makes questionable decision? [RUMOR] NVidia tries to disable GPU mining?

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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
126

So now, not only is Nvidia's chairman selling GPUs that can be used for Compute (*formerly called GPGPU - "General Purpose"), he's rum0ored to be attempting to effectively regulate WHAT PROGRAMS are ALLOWED to be run on the GPUs that they mfg?

Imaging if Intel decided to decree, that their CPUs, could no longer be used for searching for prime numbers.

This whole idea is a slippery slope that I am NOT willing to go down.

And to think, this is all just an (alleged) stupid band-aid, over their mfg and supply-chain issues.

If Nvidia could effectively supply all of their GPU markets with product, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Edit: If this rumor turns out to be true, expect class-action lawsuits against NVidia, much like what happened to Sony with the PS3 losing functionality (running Linux) after people purchased them.

Now, ALL NVIDIA RETAILERS will be forced to post a prominent disclaimer of the software that is NOT ALLOWED to be run on these GPUs, or they will get sued as well.

Update:
NVidia to phase out all existing Ampere PCI device-ids, phase in EtH mining "block" across ALL new Ampere line-up!
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
126
This doesn't make you come off as a particularly good person.
Sounds like a Republican.

Realistically if you want a GPU your best bet is to just fork over the extra cost right now with the idea that you can use it to mine some cryptocurrency that you can sell for your local currency until you make up the difference between what you paid for the card and what you wanted to pay. At that point you can quit mining and you've essentially broken even financially. It actually gets you what you want and is incredibly practical.
That's just too logical/practical for "that type" of brain to process. Ratting out drug dealers and pumping meme coins makes so much more sense...
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,011
6,454
136
Sounds like a Republican.


That's just too logical/practical for "that type" of brain to process. Ratting out drug dealers and pumping meme coins makes so much more sense...

I don't think political party has anything to do with it and probably should be left out of the discussion. I'm probably closer to a Republican than a Democrat and I don't have a problem with crypto currencies.

Try not to put people into neat little boxes that fit your own preconceived notions or you really aren't acting any differently than the people you're deriding.

Food for thought:

View attachment 39820

PS: the irony of putting gaming hashtags in there is golden.

Who thought that tweet would be a good idea? Do they like kicking hornet nests as a hobby or something?
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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I don't think political party has anything to do with it and probably should be left out of the discussion. I'm probably closer to a Republican than a Democrat and I don't have a problem with crypto currencies.

Try not to put people into neat little boxes that fit your own preconceived notions or you really aren't acting any differently than the people you're deriding.



Who thought that tweet would be a good idea? Do they like kicking hornet nests as a hobby or something?
I am sure it was devised in a non English as a first language place. Money is important to many Asians. I am willing to bet it is a sign of status having an expensive card that is good at mining but not using it to mine is a respected thing.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
126
Cell Phone mining could be a growing thing now too.

Imagine not being able to find a cell phone to buy, if yours breaks, etc. Now that's kind of scary.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,527
604
126
It's been there for a while, there was some Android malware a few years ago that mined on millions of phones. Some websites are also using mining scripts in place of ads.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,011
6,454
136
Assuming it's not your hardware or electricity, mining on anything is practical because you don't bear the costs incurred or could do so regardless of the profitability. However, using a phone only makes sense for a system operating on proof of stake or one that uses some ASIC-resistant algorithm, and even then probably only is only useful for something like a credit union or cooperative where the transactions being processed are for an organization that the user has a stake in themselves. Of course that work could be more easily done on a person's PC, so unless the only thing they own is a phone it's not that practical.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,400
12,849
136
Here we go!

NVIDIA has just announced a new series of products designed specifically for cryptocurrency mining. The new series is a response to the growing popularity of Ethereum mining.

RTX 3060 driver will limit mining performance

The manufacturer also announced that the upcoming GeForce RTX 3060 will have a special driver that will automatically detect mining-specific algorithms, which will limit the hash rate by 50%. This would ensure that the RTX 3060 will only be available to gamers, not miners.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,011
6,454
136
Hope it doesn't get any false positives and tank gaming performance. It also doesn't stop anyone from creating a set of drivers to work around that limitation and there's a large financial incentive to do so if the cards remain relatively cheaper than alternatives.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,746
136
From Nvidia:

And the GPUs themselves.

I'm guessing from the specs the 30HX is a 2060 and the 40HX is a 2070. The last two coming Q2 are probably ampere.
 
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zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,184
459
136
nVidia is going to play cat-and-mouse with Ethereum miners like they did with Hypervisor detection. And it is going to lose.


To make it even more fun, the specs of the cards are horrible. The 40HX is 36 MH/s for 185W? That is what my 5600XT does, at around 80W. Nor I would purchase a brick card with no video outputs since I would never be able to reuse it on any other scenarios. Add in that they have a totally different distribution channel, whereas I can go to any Hardware shop and grab Video Cards.
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,198
3,185
136
www.teamjuchems.com
nVidia is going to play cat-and-mouse with Ethereum miners like they did with Hypervisor detection. And it is going to lose.


To make it even more fun, the specs of the cards are horrible. The 40HX is 36 MH/s for 185W? That is what my 5600XT does, at around 80W. Nor I would purchase a brick card with no video outputs since I would never be able to reuse it on any other scenarios. Add in that they have a totally different distribution channel, whereas I can go to any Hardware shop and grab Video Cards.

My guess is there are people who are looking to bulk buy thousands of cards and rather than using the retail channel which logically makes those kinds of logistics difficult, you'll be able to buy these by the pallet load. Further, I am assuming Nvidia sees pent up demand at some baseline efficiency level and these are above that.

Furthermore, and at odds with the power consumption, for some reason these will allow for denser systems builds supposedly. I assume there may also be driver tweaks coming down the pipe that restrict the number of non-compute GPUs to some arbitrary number.

And yeah, it seems like hacked drivers for the 3060 might be a thing, and people running a dedicated mining distro likely will see that folded in. But for more casual folks that will raise some barrier to entry and maybe it will be enough to make the 3060 widely available to people who aren't interested in mining. We'll see
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,064
7,489
136
Yeah, this whole thing is a bit of a joke. Mining cards have always been a red herring for a plethora of reasons (no second hand value, no desire to produce/resell them cause they're dead weight sitting on shelves when mining goes boom).

Nevermind the drivers or the terrible hash/power ratio on the new cards.

Any dedicated silicon that is going to miners can be respun and put into the gaming market to drive up general supply, even if its a gen old. The 2060 and 2070 etc are currently feature complete cards that simply have the wrong price tag and do not compete the 3xxx series cards for fab space. Might as well relaunch those into the current market to at least give gamers an upgrade path (albeit less than ideal upgrade path).

Can't imagine there is too much competition for NV's "proprietary" 12nm node and there would be little to no additional R&D cost.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,746
136
TBH, a dedicated CMP mining GPU seems like a good place to move away from PCIe and risers, and just put a PCIe to USB bridge on the CMP board or some other mass interface.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
126
That sound... is the sound of a million CUDA ecosystem developers crying out, and then being silenced, all at once.

BOOM! NVidia death-star drivers activated! CUDA for the masses, NO MORE!

Edit: "The market" will be NVidia's judge. If no-one buys them, expect them to "roll this back", and act like it never happened. ("CMP" web pages disappearing, etc.)

I expect quite a few lawsuits over this driver limitation as well.
 

zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,184
459
136
But for more casual folks that will raise some barrier to entry and maybe it will be enough to make the 3060 widely available to people who aren't interested in mining. We'll see
I actually think that this will cause even a greater shortage. Consider that a mining card uses pretty much all of the standard components than a Video Card uses (The GPU chip, DRAM chips, VRMs, etc), but with no video outputs. What is on short supply? The GPUs themselves. If you create a line specifically for miners, you are allocating the same parts that would go to a Video Card, to something that can't serve such purpose. If the demand for mining cards and the price premium nVidia charges for them is high enough that it makes more sense to divest a lot of the produced GPUs to these mining cards instead of standard Video Cards, it means... LESS VIDEO CARDS!! Amazing way to shot yourself in the foot, it isn't?
And consider the following scenario: What happens if the Drivers can be hacked, and the mining card prices aren't competitive enough in such a way that miners keeping purchasing standard Video Cards like the GF3060 because it makes more sense than a mining card as it is far more reusable (And thus reselleable)? If nVidia screws up with the new line of mining cards due to pricing and lack of alternative usages, the end result is that you divested the scarse GPUs to make a product that will be sitting in a warehouse because no one wants to buy it. Once again, LESS VIDEO CARDS!! Besides, at what price does nVidia has to sell that mining junk when AMD Navi kicks it in the butt?
At this point, I think that what nVidia wants is to destroy the resale value of mining cards because they don't want that when a professional miners upgrades its operation, it dumps a ton of dirt cheap 3-years old cards that can cannibalize the market of new mainstream cards. Oh, and maybe some PR stunt to make gamers believe that they aren't a for-profit company and that it cares about them...



TBH, a dedicated CMP mining GPU seems like a good place to move away from PCIe and risers, and just put a PCIe to USB bridge on the CMP board or some other mass interface.
I can agree with this. If you were making a mining card, it should NOT use power from the PCIe Slot itself so that you save yourself from a cable from the powered riser or powered PCB with slot. It would make the thing simpler if it just used power from the 1 or 2 PCIe Power cables.

Also, there are 3-piece PCIe risers identical to this one that are a PCIe 1x card that goes into the Motherboard, a standalone PCB with a PCIe 16x slot for the card and power input for the slot, and an USB 3 cable wiring them together that carries PCIe signals (The cable is standard, but the pinout on both ends of the cable is custom). You could ship a mining card with a custom PCB that already has such custom USB Port already on the mining card to connect it to the PCIe 1x-to-USB adapter and save yourself from one PCB piece.

If instead, what defines a "mining card" is the same standard card but without having video output slots... shove it where the sun doesn't brights. No added value, just market segmentation.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
That sound... is the sound of a million CUDA ecosystem developers crying out, and then being silenced, all at once.

BOOM! NVidia death-star drivers activated! CUDA for the masses, NO MORE!

Edit: "The market" will be NVidia's judge. If no-one buys them, expect them to "roll this back", and act like it never happened. ("CMP" web pages disappearing, etc.)

I expect quite a few lawsuits over this driver limitation as well.

Err, okay. I don't think a single non-Ethereum CUDA developer is hurt by this.
 

ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
1,151
530
136
The stupid thing is this only hurts gamers that want to mine on their GPUs while not gaming. Linux based distros like HiveOS are going to have workarounds for this on day one... full on stupidity.

It's virtue signaling to gamers wile actually screwing a large portion of them, especially targeting the little guy. Pretty terrible.

Also their "mining cards" have horrible hash rates and would need to be prices at half what they are going to sell them for to be attractive.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,400
12,849
136
I actually think that this will cause even a greater shortage. Consider that a mining card uses pretty much all of the standard components than a Video Card uses (The GPU chip, DRAM chips, VRMs, etc), but with no video outputs. What is on short supply? The GPUs themselves. If you create a line specifically for miners, you are allocating the same parts that would go to a Video Card, to something that can't serve such purpose. If the demand for mining cards and the price premium nVidia charges for them is high enough that it makes more sense to divest a lot of the produced GPUs to these mining cards instead of standard Video Cards, it means... LESS VIDEO CARDS!! Amazing way to shot yourself in the foot, it isn't?
Their idea is to sell miners 2060 and 2070 GPUs while cosumers get acces to 3060 and other upcoming Ampere SKUs. It's a good idea except you can't do it by force.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,746
136
I can agree with this. If you were making a mining card, it should NOT use power from the PCIe Slot itself so that you save yourself from a cable from the powered riser or powered PCB with slot. It would make the thing simpler if it just used power from the 1 or 2 PCIe Power cables.

Also, there are 3-piece PCIe risers identical to this one that are a PCIe 1x card that goes into the Motherboard, a standalone PCB with a PCIe 16x slot for the card and power input for the slot, and an USB 3 cable wiring them together that carries PCIe signals (The cable is standard, but the pinout on both ends of the cable is custom). You could ship a mining card with a custom PCB that already has such custom USB Port already on the mining card to connect it to the PCIe 1x-to-USB adapter and save yourself from one PCB piece.

If instead, what defines a "mining card" is the same standard card but without having video output slots... shove it where the sun doesn't brights. No added value, just market segmentation.
Those aren't really USB though, that's just running the PCIe signals over a USB cable. What I'm suggesting is actually having a USB interface to it is recognized as a USB device when plugged into the system, and there's no limitations of having say 6-8 GPU per system because that's all your motherboard has PCIe slots for.
 
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