Jenny Mccarthy

[Leafy]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

The case is well-publicized, you can google it. I never said there was evidence, but I still find it hard to believe the US Government would voluntarily open that door for no reason aside from avoiding legal fees. The very fact that they've now [aid damages in one case will open them up to a lot of future scrutiny.

As said earlier, the DoJ has a fund set up (1) for paying out "victims" of vaccines.

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
As far as my second post, it's not an emotional appeal, I really honestly don't give a fuck what you think, but I guarantee you that if you were the parent of a child who was injured or killed by something avoidable or preventable, you would be very upset and if you had the means to publicize it, you would likely do so. It doesn't matter what it is, or what the odds are, when it happens to you, things are different.

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
and one case is too many if that child is your child...

What if it was YOUR CHILD? Not an emotional appeal eh? Not an appeal to fear. Not at all.

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

if you knew anything about autism,m you would know better.

If you knew anything about autism, you would know things about autism! I know more, therefore I have defeated your argument!

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

and I'm sure people said that about mothers of thalidomide babies...

Appeal to emotion? I don't understand what your point is.

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Chryso
The good of the many outweighs the good of the one. It is better to have a small number of people die or be injured from a vaccine than to have millions dead or injured from the disease.

and I don't think most would argue with that. But that doesn't change the problem if there is in fact a problem.

I think that most people would, because the alternative is more deaths. Would you choose more over less?

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Chryso
The good of the many outweighs the good of the one. It is better to have a small number of people die or be injured from a vaccine than to have millions dead or injured from the disease.

Let it happen to you and then see if you still feel that way.

Yes, people's decisions change when they are following APPEALS TO EMOTION. That doesn't make it a valid argument.

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

I don't have to show you anything, as I'm not stating that there IS a link. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be the first (or the thirty-first) time we were told something was safe only to find out years later it wasn't. And I'm saying that I find it suspicious the gov't has suddenly decided to pay out damages "out of the goodness of it's heart".

They aren't 100% safe - no one said they are. The "risks" you're pointing out aren't actually there, however. Thimerosal doesn't cause autism (2) - it could be a causal agent although that's harder to rule out, but it's unlikely.

(1) http://www.usdoj.gov/civil/torts/const/vicp/about.htm
(2) http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2066.pdf

 

[torpid]

I'm pretty skeptical about the vaccine theory. On the other hand, it wouldn't be TOO surprising if childhood vaccines had some major incidence of something or other as a result. Rabies vaccines in pets have long been known to increase risk of injection-site cancer. That's why they give them in the rear legs now instead of the shoulder - so they can amputate easily if need be.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
By the way, earlier this year, the government paid out damages to a couple who had sued over a child who's autism they claimed was caused by vaccines. While there was no admittance of causation, you can bet your ass the government doesn't pay out over a million dollars out of the goodness of it's heart...

Its common for the government and large companies to do the math on how expensive it is to go to court compared to how expensive it is to settle. Even if you're going to win if it costs more than settling you just pay it.

that's common for corporations, but NOT the US government.

Yes it is, I know I work for the Fed Gov and do HR type work.

The federal government actually started a vaccine compensation fund for people who's children (or themselves) are thought to have been "injured" by vaccines. Now if the federal government specifically puts money aside expecting law suits because vaccines are "the greater good"... yeah. Tell me something's not being hidden there.

The reason why autism-vaccine link is plausible but not directly observable is because we're not entirely sure what causes it. My son has a form of Asperger's. When he was a wee little one, I'd like to say he was perfect. Unfortunately I can't correlate vaccines with any of his issues simply because I wasn't looking for changes (and didn't know there *might* be a link). Of course his issues may have to do with other things. Who knows.

As far as the herd immunity - if you're so concerned about immunities... get your kid/yourself vaccinated and be done with it. If my child contracts an illness because I haven't vaccinated, what the hell do you care? You've been vaccinated, right?

Finally - TOO MANY vaccines. For what gain? Most vaccines being "pushed" out now are simply for medicinal profit. Look at the HPV vaccine. There is absolutely no conclusive proof that it prevents HPV. And personally, I'm not willing my two daughters' lives on testing out some company's guess. Chicken pox vaccine... why? It's a mild childhood illness that is little more than an inconvenience to most people. Flu vaccine - another purely "for profit" vaccine... taking a company's best guess at which strain of the flu virus will proliferate a given year.

Couple that with all of the "inert" materials in all the vaccines - which is the point of Jenny's argument anyway...

Finally, a little tidbit to take away here. Did you know that probably (best estimate so far) about 20% of the human genome is viral DNA? Yup. Humanity would not be what it is today had we not lived through several million years of viruses. A good portion of that DNA is inert, some of it we owe our very existence to.

Did you know that there is a strong correlation between HPV and cervical cancer? I mean they're your kids and it's your decision, but the HPV vaccination is an excellent prevention tool for this type of cancer.

Also, chickenpox can be fatal as well. It's rare, but it does happen. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if more people die from chickenpox than from the chickenpox vaccine (which I'd assume is the case), seems like statistically, getting the vaccine would be a no-brainer.

As with any treatment, it's a matter of weighing the potential health benefits and potential health risks. For most vaccinations, the benefits far outweigh the risks IMO.

 

[FoBoT]

i had plenty of vaccines as a child and i feel fine

did anyone mention jenny mccarthy is hot?

 

[Codewiz]

As far as the herd immunity - if you're so concerned about immunities... get your kid/yourself vaccinated and be done with it. If my child contracts an illness because I haven't vaccinated, what the hell do you care? You've been vaccinated, right?

You are missing something very basic when it comes to vaccinations. Not every child that gets vaccinated builds the immunity needed. So some people aren't immune even though they were vaccinated.

It doesn't matter if 99.99% of people are vaccinated because the herd is immune so there is no way to transmit the illness. Now with all the wackos not vaccinating their children, they are putting responsible parent's child at risk....

Simple as that.

 

[MartyMcFly3]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i had plenty of vaccines as a child and i feel fine

did anyone mention jenny mccarthy is hot?

Babe thread!

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: MartyMcFly3

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i had plenty of vaccines as a child and i feel fine

did anyone mention jenny mccarthy is hot?

Babe thread!

did anyone mention she's dating Jim Carrey? match made in heaven there.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
By the way, earlier this year, the government paid out damages to a couple who had sued over a child who's autism they claimed was caused by vaccines. While there was no admittance of causation, you can bet your ass the government doesn't pay out over a million dollars out of the goodness of it's heart...

Its common for the government and large companies to do the math on how expensive it is to go to court compared to how expensive it is to settle. Even if you're going to win if it costs more than settling you just pay it.

that's common for corporations, but NOT the US government.

Yes it is, I know I work for the Fed Gov and do HR type work.

The federal government actually started a vaccine compensation fund for people who's children (or themselves) are thought to have been "injured" by vaccines. Now if the federal government specifically puts money aside expecting law suits because vaccines are "the greater good"... yeah. Tell me something's not being hidden there.

The reason why autism-vaccine link is plausible but not directly observable is because we're not entirely sure what causes it. My son has a form of Asperger's. When he was a wee little one, I'd like to say he was perfect. Unfortunately I can't correlate vaccines with any of his issues simply because I wasn't looking for changes (and didn't know there *might* be a link). Of course his issues may have to do with other things. Who knows.

As far as the herd immunity - if you're so concerned about immunities... get your kid/yourself vaccinated and be done with it. If my child contracts an illness because I haven't vaccinated, what the hell do you care? You've been vaccinated, right?

Finally - TOO MANY vaccines. For what gain? Most vaccines being "pushed" out now are simply for medicinal profit. Look at the HPV vaccine. There is absolutely no conclusive proof that it prevents HPV. And personally, I'm not willing my two daughters' lives on testing out some company's guess. Chicken pox vaccine... why? It's a mild childhood illness that is little more than an inconvenience to most people. Flu vaccine - another purely "for profit" vaccine... taking a company's best guess at which strain of the flu virus will proliferate a given year.

Couple that with all of the "inert" materials in all the vaccines - which is the point of Jenny's argument anyway...

Finally, a little tidbit to take away here. Did you know that probably (best estimate so far) about 20% of the human genome is viral DNA? Yup. Humanity would not be what it is today had we not lived through several million years of viruses. A good portion of that DNA is inert, some of it we owe our very existence to.

Did you know that there is a strong correlation between HPV and cervical cancer? I mean they're your kids and it's your decision, but the HPV vaccination is an excellent prevention tool for this type of cancer.

Also, chickenpox can be fatal as well. It's rare, but it does happen. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if more people die from chickenpox than from the chickenpox vaccine (which I'd assume is the case), seems like statistically, getting the vaccine would be a no-brainer.

As with any treatment, it's a matter of weighing the potential health benefits and potential health risks. For most vaccinations, the benefits far outweigh the risks IMO.

The HPV vaccine has < 50% success rate in preventing HPV infection, as sourced by pharma companies. It also has a much higher incidence of harmful side effects.

I should also mention that vaccines aren't the end all be all. My kids had the chickenpox vaccine, yet one of my daughters had contracted it anyway.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
By the way, earlier this year, the government paid out damages to a couple who had sued over a child who's autism they claimed was caused by vaccines. While there was no admittance of causation, you can bet your ass the government doesn't pay out over a million dollars out of the goodness of it's heart...

Its common for the government and large companies to do the math on how expensive it is to go to court compared to how expensive it is to settle. Even if you're going to win if it costs more than settling you just pay it.

that's common for corporations, but NOT the US government.

Yes it is, I know I work for the Fed Gov and do HR type work.

The federal government actually started a vaccine compensation fund for people who's children (or themselves) are thought to have been "injured" by vaccines. Now if the federal government specifically puts money aside expecting law suits because vaccines are "the greater good"... yeah. Tell me something's not being hidden there.

The reason why autism-vaccine link is plausible but not directly observable is because we're not entirely sure what causes it. My son has a form of Asperger's. When he was a wee little one, I'd like to say he was perfect. Unfortunately I can't correlate vaccines with any of his issues simply because I wasn't looking for changes (and didn't know there *might* be a link). Of course his issues may have to do with other things. Who knows.

As far as the herd immunity - if you're so concerned about immunities... get your kid/yourself vaccinated and be done with it. If my child contracts an illness because I haven't vaccinated, what the hell do you care? You've been vaccinated, right?

Finally - TOO MANY vaccines. For what gain? Most vaccines being "pushed" out now are simply for medicinal profit. Look at the HPV vaccine. There is absolutely no conclusive proof that it prevents HPV. And personally, I'm not willing my two daughters' lives on testing out some company's guess. Chicken pox vaccine... why? It's a mild childhood illness that is little more than an inconvenience to most people. Flu vaccine - another purely "for profit" vaccine... taking a company's best guess at which strain of the flu virus will proliferate a given year.

Couple that with all of the "inert" materials in all the vaccines - which is the point of Jenny's argument anyway...

Finally, a little tidbit to take away here. Did you know that probably (best estimate so far) about 20% of the human genome is viral DNA? Yup. Humanity would not be what it is today had we not lived through several million years of viruses. A good portion of that DNA is inert, some of it we owe our very existence to.

Did you know that there is a strong correlation between HPV and cervical cancer? I mean they're your kids and it's your decision, but the HPV vaccination is an excellent prevention tool for this type of cancer.

Also, chickenpox can be fatal as well. It's rare, but it does happen. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if more people die from chickenpox than from the chickenpox vaccine (which I'd assume is the case), seems like statistically, getting the vaccine would be a no-brainer.

As with any treatment, it's a matter of weighing the potential health benefits and potential health risks. For most vaccinations, the benefits far outweigh the risks IMO.

The HPV vaccine has < 50% success rate in preventing HPV infection, as sourced by pharma companies. It also has a much higher incidence of harmful side effects.

I should also mention that vaccines aren't the end all be all. My kids had the chickenpox vaccine, yet one of my daughters had contracted it anyway.

Really bad data selection there.

It's closer to 100% effective against the specific strains it's prepared from, and two of those account for about 70% of cervical cancers. So, if every woman were able to get the vaccine, you should expect about a 70% decrease in cervical cancer.

 

[frostedflakes]

Exactly. The HPV vaccine doesn't protect against all strains (only two, I think), but it does protect against the most common ones and the ones that are most likely to cause cancer.

Also, care you back up your "much higher incidence of harmful side effects" claim? This just isn't true, I don't know where you heard it.

edit: My bad, Gardasil protect against four strains, not two.

 

[funboy6942]

linky

 

[Chryso]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: MartyMcFly3

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i had plenty of vaccines as a child and i feel fine

did anyone mention jenny mccarthy is hot?

Babe thread!

did anyone mention she's dating Jim Carrey? match made in heaven there.

Lucky bastard!

 

[Atomic Playboy]

In Jenny McCarthy's defense, in the 1980s, children were given a large variety of immunizations. How many children alive on Earth today were born in the 1980s? Zero. I think that data speaks for itself.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: funboy6942
linky

His study says he finds kids with autism have high levels of toxins in their system. He believes it was liek that BEFORE they got the MMR shot. It also was only done on 37 kids, a very small sample with no blind sample to support the first. In fact it could be the kids get autism because of the high levels of toxins and not because of the shot. We already know that the toxins they talked about can cause problems. Its like saying the bandaid we put on our gunshot victim, AFTER getting shot, caused his bleeding not the bullet.



"Dr Bell believes they could affect the body's response to the MMR"

In other words he believes it but has no proof and is just making a claim.

Oh and this was from 2002. You think there be a update if any of his claims held up?

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Well I suppose thats what bothers me so much. Being a nurse and all. But its amazing how many of my patients DONT want get a flu or pneumonia(when they qualify for one) and their primary reason is 'vaccines arent safe'

I get sick every time I get a flu shot. I don't get sick when I don't get them. I stopped getting flu shots years ago and haven't had the flu since.

The flu shot doesnt cause you to get the flu... sure you can have a mild illness for a couple days but its more due to the immune response. I got the flu shot every year I was in college and was one of the few people NOT to get the flu whenever it chose to rampage through my dorm

So basically you're agreeing with me. Good. In cases where the patient has a weaker immune system, they may end up with a prolonged illness.

No it has nothing to do with the strength of your immune system. Are you allergic to eggs by any chance?

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: funboy6942
linky

His study says he finds kids with autism have high levels of toxins in their system. He believes it was liek that BEFORE they got the MMR shot. It also was only done on 37 kids, a very small sample with no blind sample to support the first. In fact it could be the kids get autism because of the high levels of toxins and not because of the shot. We already know that the toxins they talked about can cause problems. Its like saying the bandaid we put on our gunshot victim, AFTER getting shot, caused his bleeding not the bullet.



"Dr Bell believes they could affect the body's response to the MMR"

In other words he believes it but has no proof and is just making a claim.

Oh and this was from 2002. You think there be a update if any of his claims held up?

Look up Bell in pubmed - I couldn't find this particular paper, so it might not have even been published. He has published some stuff looking at fatty acid metabolism in developmental disorders, but nothing to do with vaccines that I could find.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Well I suppose thats what bothers me so much. Being a nurse and all. But its amazing how many of my patients DONT want get a flu or pneumonia(when they qualify for one) and their primary reason is 'vaccines arent safe'

I get sick every time I get a flu shot. I don't get sick when I don't get them. I stopped getting flu shots years ago and haven't had the flu since.

The flu shot doesnt cause you to get the flu... sure you can have a mild illness for a couple days but its more due to the immune response. I got the flu shot every year I was in college and was one of the few people NOT to get the flu whenever it chose to rampage through my dorm

So basically you're agreeing with me. Good. In cases where the patient has a weaker immune system, they may end up with a prolonged illness.

Wow. No. If you have a "weak immune system" (a very fluffy statement in any case) then you will have a weaker immune response than someone with a "strong immune system".

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: dartworth

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: moshquerade
It seems like Jenny McCarthy is trying to find a scapegoat so she can blame something else for her not having a *gasp* perfect child.

Agree...

yep. Age of entitlement ftl.

I really don't think that is the case here.

she feels she is owed for something that is beyond anyone's doing. She feels someone else should be responsible for a tragedy that, if anyone is to blame, is herself (genetics--though of course it's not her fault).

and I'm sure people said that about mothers of thalidomide babies...

It's pretty easy to test whether or not it applies to each specific case.

The issue is that when vaccination came about, infant mortality was so ridiculously high that the general population was ambivilant to death by disease vs. death by vaccination. Perhaps people were better prepared to accept the death of a child, as it was far more normal.

Now, removed from that environment, there is this hightened sensitivity to what was once normal. There is simply no current day awareness among the dolts of the world of what human life is like in a world without vaccination.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: dartworth

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: moshquerade
It seems like Jenny McCarthy is trying to find a scapegoat so she can blame something else for her not having a *gasp* perfect child.

Agree...

yep. Age of entitlement ftl.

I really don't think that is the case here.

she feels she is owed for something that is beyond anyone's doing. She feels someone else should be responsible for a tragedy that, if anyone is to blame, is herself (genetics--though of course it's not her fault).

and I'm sure people said that about mothers of thalidomide babies...

And we have test to make sure drugs are safe. That is why thalidomide was never approved for the US market. Yet vaccines have gone through these test and passed. They have also been used for many years and in a lot of cases decades.

So AGAIN. Show me peer reviewed independent studies that show a direct link between long term injury and vaccines. Not some person that says ?my kid ate at burger king and was diagnosed with autism, so it must have been BK that caused it?.

I don't have to show you anything, as I'm not stating that there IS a link. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be the first (or the thirty-first) time we were told something was safe only to find out years later it wasn't. And I'm saying that I find it suspicious the gov't has suddenly decided to pay out damages "out of the goodness of it's heart".

It's far more dangerous to give these dolts a voice and risk their FUD endangering society as a whole than it is to pay them off to shut the fuck up.

 

[Whisper]

Autism Spectrum Disorders are not my particular area of clinical competence, but I do go to school with quite a few individuals whose specialty they are. From sitting in on their--and their supervisors'--presentations and lectures, it does not seem that there is as yet ANY solid empirical support for a link between vaccination and the development of autism or autistic symptoms. And trust me, they're looking. Dozens, and possibly hundreds, of times over.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Nik

It is a reasonable conclusion that getting a shot weakens you enough for something else to attack, if not the very thing you're getting a vaccine for so some people may not want to get a shot in the first place. Especially if they don't otherwise get the flu or colds anyway

It is not reasonable, it is stupidly bad logic.

It is like saying running the 100 m weakens you and makes you less able to run the 100 m... but surprise, surprise, all the people in the 100 m finals in the Olympics have ran the 100 m before :Q :roll:

 

[BornStarlet]

Just an FYI, new studies are showing a link between autism-spectrum disorders and increased paternal age. So maybe the increase has nothing to do with vaccines and is related to men waiting longer to have kids...

Also, the reason that many people correlate autism with the MMR is that it is given at 12-15 months, the same age at which most parents begin to notice autism-like symptoms (this holds true in both vaccinated and unvaccinated populations). I would like to assert that if we held off giving the MMR until age 6 a few things would happen: 1. We would have more childhood morbidity and mortality due to measles, mumps, and rubella; 2. the rates of autism would remain the same; 3. the culprit vaccine would no longer be MMR but chickenpox, or HepA or another vaccine given at 12 months.


http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/20155.aspx

 

[0roo0roo]

disturbing.

New Frontline on vaccines and the "controversy" ..
you can watch it online
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/view/

Jenny Mccarthy shows up in a lot of that documentary.. i didn't know jim carrey was along for the ride as well, rather disappointed with him.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Mommy Instinct you say?

 

[tboo]

She has nice bewbies