Jesse Jackson: 2004 Election 'Ain't Over'

[EagleKeeper]

In 2004, Jackson and others said the Election Day problems included malfunctioning electronic voting machines, manipulated exit polls, misinformation and long lines at polling places servicing large numbers of poor people and minorities. These problems amounted to election fraud in Ohio, he said.

How does the items bolded amount to fraud?
The media is the ones that are interested in exit polls. And they were the ones heavily backing Kerry.
How does mis-information amount to fraud. What mis-information is he spouting about?
Long lines may be due to either more people choosing to vote than previously or just people's timing was bad. Most pollswere open at least 8 hours; I do not think that they were jammed up all the time, just at peak hours.

Neas also indicated that Blackwell should face criminal charges for his role in voter fraud. "I think that prosecution is something that should be considered," Neas said of Blackwell.

And where is the proof of voter fraud?

Hilary Shelton, the director of the NAACP's Washington bureau, described what he called deception techniques targeting minorities on Election Day. Flyers were sent to black voters telling them the election was two days after the actual date, Shelton charged.

"We were told that if you were for one party, you would vote on one day, on November 2, but if you were the member of another party -- a party that over 88 percent of African Americans supported in this last election -- your day to vote was two days later," Shelton said.

"And indeed people came out to vote two days later and found out they could not cast that vote because of the kind of trickery that [they] were still experiencing," he added. "The trickery has become much more insidious than ever before."

If the voters are stupid enough to believe such a flyer, then their vote does not deserve to be counted.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

In 2004, Jackson and others said the Election Day problems included malfunctioning electronic voting machines, manipulated exit polls, misinformation and long lines at polling places servicing large numbers of poor people and minorities. These problems amounted to election fraud in Ohio, he said.

How does the items bolded amount to fraud?
The media is the ones that are interested in exit polls. And they were the ones heavily backing Kerry.
How does mis-information amount to fraud. What mis-information is he spouting about?
Long lines may be due to either more people choosing to vote than previously or just people's timing was bad. Most pollswere open at least 8 hours; I do not think that they were jammed up all the time, just at peak hours.

Neas also indicated that Blackwell should face criminal charges for his role in voter fraud. "I think that prosecution is something that should be considered," Neas said of Blackwell.

And where is the proof of voter fraud?

Hilary Shelton, the director of the NAACP's Washington bureau, described what he called deception techniques targeting minorities on Election Day. Flyers were sent to black voters telling them the election was two days after the actual date, Shelton charged.

"We were told that if you were for one party, you would vote on one day, on November 2, but if you were the member of another party -- a party that over 88 percent of African Americans supported in this last election -- your day to vote was two days later," Shelton said.

"And indeed people came out to vote two days later and found out they could not cast that vote because of the kind of trickery that [they] were still experiencing," he added. "The trickery has become much more insidious than ever before."

If the voters are stupid enough to believe such a flyer, then their vote does not deserve to be counted.

Sorry but you are way off. Polls were jammed from dawn till midnight... lines that lasted 3+ hours at the least and 12+ hours at the worst. In Kenyon College, there were over 1200 voters registered and they got 1 (ONE), that's uno, un, singular voting machine. This wasn't an isolated incident, this was the ROUTINE. 74% of the "Kerry" precincts had less voting machines than there were in 2000 DESPITE the fact that voter registration was up at least 30% across the board. Guess how many "Bush" precincts had less voting machines than there were in 2000? NONE! Not a single precinct! There were NO lines in the Bush precincts, NONE.

Oh and btw, according the Ohio law, a party to actively and knowingly engage in voter suppression and/or intimidation IS a grounds for election fraud.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

In 2004, Jackson and others said the Election Day problems included malfunctioning electronic voting machines, manipulated exit polls, misinformation and long lines at polling places servicing large numbers of poor people and minorities. These problems amounted to election fraud in Ohio, he said.

How does the items bolded amount to fraud?
The media is the ones that are interested in exit polls. And they were the ones heavily backing Kerry.
How does mis-information amount to fraud. What mis-information is he spouting about?
Long lines may be due to either more people choosing to vote than previously or just people's timing was bad. Most pollswere open at least 8 hours; I do not think that they were jammed up all the time, just at peak hours.

Neas also indicated that Blackwell should face criminal charges for his role in voter fraud. "I think that prosecution is something that should be considered," Neas said of Blackwell.

And where is the proof of voter fraud?

Hilary Shelton, the director of the NAACP's Washington bureau, described what he called deception techniques targeting minorities on Election Day. Flyers were sent to black voters telling them the election was two days after the actual date, Shelton charged.

"We were told that if you were for one party, you would vote on one day, on November 2, but if you were the member of another party -- a party that over 88 percent of African Americans supported in this last election -- your day to vote was two days later," Shelton said.

"And indeed people came out to vote two days later and found out they could not cast that vote because of the kind of trickery that [they] were still experiencing," he added. "The trickery has become much more insidious than ever before."

If the voters are stupid enough to believe such a flyer, then their vote does not deserve to be counted.

Sorry but you are way off. Polls were jammed from dawn till midnight... lines that lasted 3+ hours at the least and 12+ hours at the worst. In Kenyon College, there were over 1200 voters registered and they got 1 (ONE), that's uno, un, singular voting machine. This wasn't an isolated incident, this was the ROUTINE. 74% of the "Kerry" precincts had less voting machines than there were in 2000 DESPITE the fact that voter registration was up at least 30% across the board. Guess how many "Bush" precincts had less voting machines than there were in 2000? NONE! Not a single precinct! There were NO lines in the Bush precincts, NONE.

Oh and btw, according the Ohio law, a party to actively and knowingly engage in voter suppression and/or intimidation IS a grounds for election fraud.

I will concede that the amount of voting slots may have been an issue.

One will have to prove that Blackwell did actively and knowingly engage in voter suppression and/or intimidation

Why did not of the independant observers notice this issue of lack of voting slots when the polls opened. Paper ballots could have been requested. Had a machine gone down, what would have been done?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

In 2004, Jackson and others said the Election Day problems included malfunctioning electronic voting machines, manipulated exit polls, misinformation and long lines at polling places servicing large numbers of poor people and minorities. These problems amounted to election fraud in Ohio, he said.

How does the items bolded amount to fraud?
The media is the ones that are interested in exit polls. And they were the ones heavily backing Kerry.
How does mis-information amount to fraud. What mis-information is he spouting about?
Long lines may be due to either more people choosing to vote than previously or just people's timing was bad. Most pollswere open at least 8 hours; I do not think that they were jammed up all the time, just at peak hours.

Neas also indicated that Blackwell should face criminal charges for his role in voter fraud. "I think that prosecution is something that should be considered," Neas said of Blackwell.

And where is the proof of voter fraud?

Hilary Shelton, the director of the NAACP's Washington bureau, described what he called deception techniques targeting minorities on Election Day. Flyers were sent to black voters telling them the election was two days after the actual date, Shelton charged.

"We were told that if you were for one party, you would vote on one day, on November 2, but if you were the member of another party -- a party that over 88 percent of African Americans supported in this last election -- your day to vote was two days later," Shelton said.

"And indeed people came out to vote two days later and found out they could not cast that vote because of the kind of trickery that [they] were still experiencing," he added. "The trickery has become much more insidious than ever before."

If the voters are stupid enough to believe such a flyer, then their vote does not deserve to be counted.

Sorry but you are way off. Polls were jammed from dawn till midnight... lines that lasted 3+ hours at the least and 12+ hours at the worst. In Kenyon College, there were over 1200 voters registered and they got 1 (ONE), that's uno, un, singular voting machine. This wasn't an isolated incident, this was the ROUTINE. 74% of the "Kerry" precincts had less voting machines than there were in 2000 DESPITE the fact that voter registration was up at least 30% across the board. Guess how many "Bush" precincts had less voting machines than there were in 2000? NONE! Not a single precinct! There were NO lines in the Bush precincts, NONE.

Oh and btw, according the Ohio law, a party to actively and knowingly engage in voter suppression and/or intimidation IS a grounds for election fraud.

I will concede that the amount of voting slots may have been an issue.

One will ahve to prove that Blackwell did actively and knowingly engage in voter suppression and/or intimidation

Why did not of the independant observers notice this issue of lack of voting slots when the polls opened. Paper ballots could have been requested. Had a machine gone down, what would have been done?

County BofE's were told that they COULD NOT give out paper ballots, independent observers DID notice it. In some precincts with only two machines, when one machine broke down, they had to make due with one working one until a technician showed up. Most of the time, that was hours and hours later.

Can you imagine what YOUR precinct would've been like if there was only one booth? Yikes, I'd STILL be waiting to vote. Well, maybe not, but I would've been there at LEAST 4 hours.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I support a paper trail & think the votes should be counted & recounted till everyone's happy, but this BS is a sad example of how out of touch a large part of the Democratic party is with the rest of the electorate.

What's that long river in the Middle East, oh yeah, De Nile....

Stunts like this are going to further distance the Democrats from reality.

I watch the threads in P&N & see all the hearty backslapping & condemnations & think to myself, you poor fvckers, how out of touch are you guys with your personal lives if you can believe this kind crap.

Sad really.

:thumbsup:

I love how all those out of touch libs won't even touch your post :laugh:

Pliablemoose talks to God, he can't be taken seriously.

Gaard, we all know there is no mightier power than you & your intellect.

I've been an ICU & ER nurse for ~20 years, without fail, the people I've seen die alone in the hospital (& I've seen about !,000 people die, lost track @ 100 about 15 years ago) don't have some kind of belief system, the most common is a belief in God (big G), and they usually don't have a peaceful death. Enjoy your superiority, none of us is getting out of here alive.

After around the 500th death, I started going back to church.

WTF? I guess my intellect is failing me. I see NO connection between what you said and what you quoted. You feeling ok?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I support a paper trail & think the votes should be counted & recounted till everyone's happy, but this BS is a sad example of how out of touch a large part of the Democratic party is with the rest of the electorate.

What's that long river in the Middle East, oh yeah, De Nile....

Stunts like this are going to further distance the Democrats from reality.

I watch the threads in P&N & see all the hearty backslapping & condemnations & think to myself, you poor fvckers, how out of touch are you guys with your personal lives if you can believe this kind crap.

Sad really.

:thumbsup:

I love how all those out of touch libs won't even touch your post :laugh:

Pliablemoose talks to God, he can't be taken seriously.

Gaard, we all know there is no mightier power than you & your intellect.

I've been an ICU & ER nurse for ~20 years, without fail, the people I've seen die alone in the hospital (& I've seen about !,000 people die, lost track @ 100 about 15 years ago) don't have some kind of belief system, the most common is a belief in God (big G), and they usually don't have a peaceful death. Enjoy your superiority, none of us is getting out of here alive.

After around the 500th death, I started going back to church.

WTF? I guess my intellect is failing me. I see NO connection between what you said and what you quoted. You feeling ok?

Do you go to church Gaard?

 

[Michael]

Harvey - You and the other yappers can't answer my questions because you're not interested in a reasoned approach to fixing the problem. This is about complaining about and trying to deny reality. You don't want to fix the system and make basic improvements to help future elections, you want to throw mud at one party and hope it sticks. You want to cloud the air to make it look like Bush wasn't legally elected.

If that's not the case, then why can't you or Darkhawk28 answer the questions I asked?

Michael

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Michael
Harvey - You and the other yappers can't answer my questions because you're not interested in a reasoned approach to fixing the problem. This is about complaining about and trying to deny reality. You don't want to fix the system and make basic improvements to help future elections, you want to throw mud at one party and hope it sticks. You want to cloud the air to make it look like Bush wasn't legally elected.

If that's not the case, then why can't you or Darkhawk28 answer the questions I asked?

Michael

Ok name an "oops" first off. Secondly, you would just LOVE it if Kerry "Gored" himself wouldn't you?

There has been a Contest of Election already filed yesterday, despite and because of Blackwell's hinderous of the process of a recount in which you're SOOOOOOOO not against. There are nearly 100,000 unverified Presidential no-votes, still nearly 100,000 uncounted "spoiled" ballots (yes, the hanging chads) and a strange overabundance of absentee ballots in Republican counties. PLUS, there seems to be a problem when over 50% of the Democratic provisional ballots were rejected. For what reason, no one is sure. Plus, Blackwell, retractively changed the "rules" of provisional ballots AFTER the election. Not before, but AFTER. Let me explain. During the spring primaries, provisional ballots were valid if you voted ANYWHERE in your county. But not so surprisingly enough, SoS Blackwell decided to change that rule AFTER the election. AFTER! I'm not sure of the legality of that procedure, but I sure know it's BULLSH*T.

Sorry, but the Republican party's new hero has broken and skirted the law many times since the election. He has purposely gone out of his way to delay a certification of the vote so that recount efforts could begin in a timely fashion. ALSO, let me remind you and everybody reading this that it was NOT the Democratic party asking for this recount. It were the Glibs (Greens and Libertarians). I know there are a few Libertarian and Badnarik backers in this forum that may or may not know that fact.

Question to YOU is this: What possible reason would the Glibs (pretty different in their platform and mission) do this? I'd love to hear the "oh, they're doing this for publicity, etc", blah blah blah. My gut reaction is that they KNOW that what happened in Ohio and around the country was rigged. More and more evidence is creeping up and there has been sworn testimony (y'know, taking the oath on the stand type of oath) that fraud DID occur and that they were involved directly or indirectly.

Whether the truth will come out before or after the inauguration, I do not know. But it will come out. You can't use the sore loser line anymore, because this has deeper implications than that. If everything was on the up-and-up, the recount and investigation would be done and we'd all be moving forward. It is and has been the secrecy, the cover-ups, the threats, the anamolies, the uncooperativeness, the "glitches", the unlawful acts by election officials that has blown this up further than I thought it would or could.

So, if you want this to end and are 100% sure that your candidate won fair and square, then contact your Senator or Congressman and urge them to let recount efforts go unabated and uninterrupted.

You say that I'm denying reality, but that the REALITY is that these things that have and are happening are REAL. Everything that has gone on is REAL and verified as well as put as part of sworn testimony.

Right now, I don't know if Bush was legally elected or not, but the way the Republicans are handling this, I'd have to say no. They were cordially invited to attend both of the Congressional hearings but they all declined, thus condoning the proven voter intimidation and suppression. I guess they like the system of distortion they have now.

I'm following and pushing this story because I want my kids to be able to be confident in the knowledge that their votes count and that they have a democracy to look forward to as they are and after they grow up.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Michael
Harvey - You and the other yappers can't answer my questions because you're not interested in a reasoned approach to fixing the problem. This is about complaining about and trying to deny reality. You don't want to fix the system and make basic improvements to help future elections, you want to throw mud at one party and hope it sticks. You want to cloud the air to make it look like Bush wasn't legally elected.

If that's not the case, then why can't you or Darkhawk28 answer the questions I asked?

Michael

I just reviewed every one of your posts in this thread. I found exactly two posts that include three question marks in two actual questions:

Also - what is Blackwell doing that is illegal to "stop" the recount? Illegal by what definition and tried and concluded in what court? And what is he doing "legally" to "stop" the recount?

and

FOIA recoreds being "locked" down?

Darkhawk28 and I aren't resoponsible for answering your "questions." They are clearly raised by the facts on the ground in Ohio and in the complaints filed, there, by those who, by law are entitle to raise them and by members of Congress, including Representative John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, who convened a hearing to examine accusations of voting problems in Ohio.

Other than that, all you've done is attack me, Darkhawk28, and anyone else who dares to question your biased, uninformed foregone conclusions, but you haven't added squat in the way of facts.

Earlier, I posted:

It's only speculative, but if the truth is with them, why would you, or any "conservative" who really believes in the democratic process, have a problem with it? Would you really want to keep Bush in office if it turned out that Bush only won through fraud, or even an innocent mistake?

It's their dime to pursue it. The worst that could happen is, one way or another, we'll all know the same truth. :beer:

I have no idea whether any of this will change the results of the elections in Ohio or Florida, but I think both the questions and the answers are important as matters of equity under the law. I also posted:

The only real pissant whiners I see are those with big mouths but no balls who are afraid of whatever the truth may really be.

That obviously includes you. If you have anything of substance to add to the discussion, post it. If all you can do is belittle others because, unlike you, they aren't willing to follow neocon dogma like bleating little sheep, please STFU!

 

[Zebo]

First of all, I think Bush probably won fair and square.

No president has ever won fair and square. Electoin rigging is as old as the United States itself. Republicans still say JFK stole the election of 1960. Illinois anyone? LBJ fighting to keep that ballot box from being opened for his senate seat? But one thing to remeber you can't steal a landslide which this was, only nickles and dimes or the jig is up.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Zebo

First of all, I think Bush probably won fair and square.

But one thing to remeber you can't steal a landslide which this was, only nickles and dimes or the jig is up.

In 2000, the Dems claimed that the election was stolen. they had the popular vote but lost in the EC.
In 2004, the Dems have lost the popular vote and are trying to reverse Ohio so as to get the EC.
Some die-hards are now claiming that it is stolen due to the irregularities in Ohio.

Which one will they consider valid? Popular vote or EC. Or it does not matter which, while as long as their candidate is not in the White House.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Zebo

First of all, I think Bush probably won fair and square.

No president has ever won fair and square. Electoin rigging is as old as the United States itself. Republicans still say JFK stole the election of 1960. Illinois anyone? LBJ fighting to keep that ballot box from being opened for his senate seat? But one thing to remeber you can't steal a landslide which this was, only nickles and dimes or the jig is up.

Bush v. Kerry was NOT a landslide!

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Bush v. Kerry was NOT a landslide!

Nope. Now Reagan Vs. Mondale...THAT was a landslide

Red V. Blue

Jason

 

[Pliablemoose]

If I was as convinced as you-all are that the election was stolen, blood would be running in the streets.

I was in the middle of a job interview/tour yesterday & took a call on my cellphone from my state senator's office, they were calling to make sure I was happy with something they'd done for me

"Excuse me, it's our senator, I should probably take this."

You should hang your heads in shame for not taking a more active role in dealing with your concerns.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
If I was as convinced as you-all are that the election was stolen, blood would be running in the streets.

You should hang your heads in shame for not taking a more active role in dealing with your concerns.

Now, now, I think everyone except the independents turned out quite well. Both parties had record turnout, record numbers of voters, the R's just did it a little bit better. The VOTERS have plenty to be proud of but both the candidates should be ashamed of the way they ran their campaigns.

Jason

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I support a paper trail & think the votes should be counted & recounted till everyone's happy, but this BS is a sad example of how out of touch a large part of the Democratic party is with the rest of the electorate.

What's that long river in the Middle East, oh yeah, De Nile....

Stunts like this are going to further distance the Democrats from reality.

I watch the threads in P&N & see all the hearty backslapping & condemnations & think to myself, you poor fvckers, how out of touch are you guys with your personal lives if you can believe this kind crap.

Sad really.

:thumbsup:

I love how all those out of touch libs won't even touch your post :laugh:

Pliablemoose talks to God, he can't be taken seriously.

Gaard, we all know there is no mightier power than you & your intellect.

I've been an ICU & ER nurse for ~20 years, without fail, the people I've seen die alone in the hospital (& I've seen about !,000 people die, lost track @ 100 about 15 years ago) don't have some kind of belief system, the most common is a belief in God (big G), and they usually don't have a peaceful death. Enjoy your superiority, none of us is getting out of here alive.

After around the 500th death, I started going back to church.

WTF? I guess my intellect is failing me. I see NO connection between what you said and what you quoted. You feeling ok?

Do you go to church Gaard?

Not regularly. My wife drags be along with her sometimes, but not too often.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I support a paper trail & think the votes should be counted & recounted till everyone's happy, but this BS is a sad example of how out of touch a large part of the Democratic party is with the rest of the electorate.

What's that long river in the Middle East, oh yeah, De Nile....

Stunts like this are going to further distance the Democrats from reality.

I watch the threads in P&N & see all the hearty backslapping & condemnations & think to myself, you poor fvckers, how out of touch are you guys with your personal lives if you can believe this kind crap.

Sad really.

:thumbsup:

I love how all those out of touch libs won't even touch your post :laugh:

Pliablemoose talks to God, he can't be taken seriously.

Gaard, we all know there is no mightier power than you & your intellect.

I've been an ICU & ER nurse for ~20 years, without fail, the people I've seen die alone in the hospital (& I've seen about !,000 people die, lost track @ 100 about 15 years ago) don't have some kind of belief system, the most common is a belief in God (big G), and they usually don't have a peaceful death. Enjoy your superiority, none of us is getting out of here alive.

After around the 500th death, I started going back to church.

WTF? I guess my intellect is failing me. I see NO connection between what you said and what you quoted. You feeling ok?

Do you go to church Gaard?

Not regularly. My wife drags be along with her sometimes, but not too often.

So you @ least pretend to talk to god?

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
So you @ least pretend to talk to god?

No. You think I bow my head and fake like I'm praying? That'd be dorky.

I sit and listen, but I don't pull that little thingie out from the back of the pew in front of you and kneel on it, I don't pray (or fake like I am), and I sure as hell don't sing.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
So you @ least pretend to talk to god?

No. You think I bow my head and fake like I'm praying? That'd be dorky.

I sit and listen, but I don't pull that little thingie out from the back of the pew in front of you and kneel on it, I don't pray (or fake like I am), and I sure as hell don't sing.

Nice, just phone it in huh?

 

[Gaard]

My wife asks me to go with her. I phone in nothing. Probably because I'm not a hypocrite. Isn't that what you'd call someone who says "You can't trust him, he talks to God" yet talks to God himself?