Jesse Jackson: 2004 Election 'Ain't Over'

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: herkulease
I don't understand how manipulative exit polls can be part of fraud.

who actually uses the exit polls? besides the press and the candidates.

If some actual voter didn't vote because they thought it was over already then that's there fault isn't it?

When exit polls and actual results did not jive in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia during their elections in 2003, the president of that country, Eduard A. Shevardnadze, resigned under pressure from the US and Russia, and new elections were held.

Are you suggesting that our election is comparable to the election in Georgia?

Various election observers and media reported stuffed ballot boxes, policemen registered to vote at multiple ballot stations, tens of thousand missing from electoral registration lists and their names replaced by large numbers of the deceased. Some districts reported up to 30 percent of residents missing from electoral rolls. Those who could vote endured hours of queuing and intimidation by state forces.

Rustavi-2 television reported pro-government police hijacking ballot boxes and rerouting them via police stations. The ballot in Kutaisi, Georgia?s second city, was reported as ?riddled with irregularities? by Imeldi television channel.

Rustavi-2 also reported how an electoral district with just 300 registered voters produced 1,500 completed ballots in the same city. Violent clashes occurred in the provincial city of Tkibuli, while voter harassment by state forces was almost universal.

Election fraud induces political crisis in Georgia

I suggested nothing of the sort. It's you cowardly partisan-enslaved assholes who think that everyone who doesn't root for them must be against them.

All I did is point out that the final conclusive evidence used against the government then-in-place was the variance from the exit polls to the results. Nothing more. The poster asked "Who actually uses exit polls?", I answered.

Various election observers and media reported stuffed ballot boxes, policemen registered to vote at multiple ballot stations, tens of thousand missing from electoral registration lists and their names replaced by large numbers of the deceased. Some districts reported up to 30 percent of residents missing from electoral rolls. Those who could vote endured hours of queuing and intimidation by state forces.

Rustavi-2 television reported pro-government police hijacking ballot boxes and rerouting them via police stations. The ballot in Kutaisi, Georgia?s second city, was reported as ?riddled with irregularities? by Imeldi television channel.

Rustavi-2 also reported how an electoral district with just 300 registered voters produced 1,500 completed ballots in the same city. Violent clashes occurred in the provincial city of Tkibuli, while voter harassment by state forces was almost universal.

And voter fraud had nothing to do with it?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Dari
You need to calm down. You post here like a disgruntled postal worker who's lost everything. Angry about this. Angry about that. Get a hobby.

LOL, posting advice from you. I've decided that I don't like braindead partisan hacks. You're one of them.

I guess you're the bi-partisan hack on this forum right? What you are at worst is an angry liberal and at best a political cynic. Either way, you, like everyone else on this globe, are opinionated. But you display your thoughts in an abrasive manner that makes me want to ask you: How large is that chip on your shoulder?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Dari
You need to calm down. You post here like a disgruntled postal worker who's lost everything. Angry about this. Angry about that. Get a hobby.

LOL, posting advice from you. I've decided that I don't like braindead partisan hacks. You're one of them.

I guess you're the bi-partisan hack on this forum right? What you are at worst is an angry liberal and at best a political cynic. Either way, you, like everyone else on this globe, are opinionated. But you display your thoughts in an abrasive manner that makes me want to ask you: How large is that chip on your shoulder?

Which brings us back to that whole thing that everyone who is not a diehard straight ticket Republican just must be a liberal in your mind. Yet I'm not (I get in more arguments with "liberals" on this board than I do "conservatives", and I respect more "conservatives" than "liberals" as well). But it's why I don't like you and your fanboi ilk (if only because this is one Libertarian who is sick of being called a "liberal" like it's a pejorative simply because I don't agree with all your twisted political views). You see the world you want to see and not the world that is, and if someone dares to present a viewpoint outside your realm of acceptance, you fight like hell and condemn anyone who would point out to you the error of your vision. Which is my biggest issue. Because as long as you're more interested in looking right than being right, our country will never solve its real issues. And when you're not moving forward, you're falling behind (meaning that if you don't solve your problems, your problems will solve you).
And quite frankly, I'm pretty fscking pissed off at your idiot ilk about it. Anyway, I call a spade a shovel. If I happen to not like you, you will know it. That is all. If you don't like that, sue me. Now why don't you go back to your talk radio and nod your head in stuporous agreement like you always do?

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Dari
You need to calm down. You post here like a disgruntled postal worker who's lost everything. Angry about this. Angry about that. Get a hobby.

LOL, posting advice from you. I've decided that I don't like braindead partisan hacks. You're one of them.

I guess you're the bi-partisan hack on this forum right? What you are at worst is an angry liberal and at best a political cynic. Either way, you, like everyone else on this globe, are opinionated. But you display your thoughts in an abrasive manner that makes me want to ask you: How large is that chip on your shoulder?

Which brings us back to that whole thing that everyone who is not a diehard straight ticket Republican just must be a liberal in your mind. Yet I'm not (I get in more arguments with "liberals" on this board than I do "conservatives", and I respect more "conservatives" than "liberals" as well). But it's why I don't like you and your fanboi ilk (if only because this is one Libertarian who is sick of being called a "liberal" like it's a pejorative simply because I don't agree with all your twisted political views). You see the world you want to see and not the world that is, and if someone dares to present a viewpoint outside your realm of acceptance, you fight like hell and condemn anyone who would point out to you the error of your vision. Which is my biggest issue. Because as long as you're more interested in looking right than being right, our country will never solve its real issues. And when you're not moving forward, you're falling behind (meaning that if you don't solve your problems, your problems will solve you).
And quite frankly, I'm pretty fscking pissed off at your idiot ilk about it. Anyway, I call a spade a shovel. If I happen to not like you, you will know it. That is all. If you don't like that, sue me. Now why don't you go back to your talk radio and nod your head in stuporous agreement like you always do?

I don't care what your political orientation is. Your analogy between the presidential elections in the US and Georgia is ridiculous.

 

[theblackbox]

I believe that the election isn't over until all the votesare counted, it's sorted out and someone is inaugerated.

However, i also believe jesse jackson only says something because he isn't in the media forefront, and hasn't been for a while, so he's grabbing ever opportunity he can from any situation so he can stay in the limelight.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I don't care what your political orientation is. Your analogy between the presidential elections in the US and Georgia is ridiculous.

See? This is the sh!t I'm talking about. Read carefully. I made no such analogy. Read my post again and tell me where you find the analogy.

Little jumpy there, ain't ya, Rip? Defensive maybe? Something to hide? :roll:

 

[irwincur]

It won't be fair until a Democrat wins...


These problems are not new. Why was it not an issue when Clinton lost the popualr vote yet won, barely? Three states were as close in 1992 and 1996 as they were this year yet there were no calls for recounts and JUSTICE. Because, well, the people talked and they wanted the Democrat King.

These problems are born from the CHILDISH sore loser attitude of the left. After all, the left, the law school elite, they where chosen to be the leaders and it isn't fair that they lost. The other side must have cheated.



I am sick of this. Until these reports can come out when both sides win, they are suspect. I am sure that if Hillary wins in 2008, even by a close margin (and not a Bush BLOWOUT margin) the press will not even bother with this crap propaganda.



GROW THE F**K UP.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I don't care what your political orientation is. Your analogy between the presidential elections in the US and Georgia is ridiculous.

See? This is the sh!t I'm talking about. Read carefully. I made no such analogy. Read my post again and tell me where you find the analogy.

Little jumpy there, ain't ya, Rip? Defensive maybe? Something to hide? :roll:

Nah, I'm tired and need to go to bed, but I'm just fine thanks.

Again, you think that the obvious voter fraud in Georgia had nothing to do with the outcome?

I'm glad to hear that you realize that there's no comparison between the US and Georgia.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

*Yawn*.

Jason

 

[herkulease]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: herkulease
I don't understand how manipulative exit polls can be part of fraud.

who actually uses the exit polls? besides the press and the candidates.

If some actual voter didn't vote because they thought it was over already then that's there fault isn't it?

When exit polls and actual results did not jive in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia during their elections in 2003, the president of that country, Eduard A. Shevardnadze, resigned under pressure from the US and Russia, and new elections were held.

Are you suggesting that our election is comparable to the election in Georgia?

Various election observers and media reported stuffed ballot boxes, policemen registered to vote at multiple ballot stations, tens of thousand missing from electoral registration lists and their names replaced by large numbers of the deceased. Some districts reported up to 30 percent of residents missing from electoral rolls. Those who could vote endured hours of queuing and intimidation by state forces.

Rustavi-2 television reported pro-government police hijacking ballot boxes and rerouting them via police stations. The ballot in Kutaisi, Georgia?s second city, was reported as ?riddled with irregularities? by Imeldi television channel.

Rustavi-2 also reported how an electoral district with just 300 registered voters produced 1,500 completed ballots in the same city. Violent clashes occurred in the provincial city of Tkibuli, while voter harassment by state forces was almost universal.

Election fraud induces political crisis in Georgia

I suggested nothing of the sort. It's you cowardly partisan-enslaved assholes who think that everyone who doesn't root for them must be against them.

All I did is point out that the final conclusive evidence used against the government then-in-place was the variance from the exit polls to the results. Nothing more. The poster asked "Who actually uses exit polls?", I answered.

Various election observers and media reported stuffed ballot boxes, policemen registered to vote at multiple ballot stations, tens of thousand missing from electoral registration lists and their names replaced by large numbers of the deceased. Some districts reported up to 30 percent of residents missing from electoral rolls. Those who could vote endured hours of queuing and intimidation by state forces.

Rustavi-2 television reported pro-government police hijacking ballot boxes and rerouting them via police stations. The ballot in Kutaisi, Georgia?s second city, was reported as ?riddled with irregularities? by Imeldi television channel.

Rustavi-2 also reported how an electoral district with just 300 registered voters produced 1,500 completed ballots in the same city. Violent clashes occurred in the provincial city of Tkibuli, while voter harassment by state forces was almost universal.

And voter fraud had nothing to do with it?

Getting out of hand isn't it. it was only Small question on my part.

I am serious though how does "manupulative" exit polls(I use quotes as you define what's manupulative, your guy down/up etc) has to do with fraud?

I always vote absentee so I never get polled. But how is it that if people who are polled don't feel like telling their real vote unfair/cheat etc.

maybe its me. the Use of exit polls in my mind are stupid, people lie, there's bound to be people like me who like to mess with the results .

Forget my original question of who uses it. I don't understand how exit polls can be construded as a cheat/unfair thing. Or is this just Jesse Jackson spewing things to incite people to cry foul.

(on personal note I don't not like jesse Jackson anymore, he plays the race card way to much. I understand his cause but using racism turned me off to him)

edit: fixed grammar

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: irwincur
It won't be fair until a Democrat wins...


These problems are not new. Why was it not an issue when Clinton lost the popualr vote yet won, barely? Three states were as close in 1992 and 1996 as they were this year yet there were no calls for recounts and JUSTICE. Because, well, the people talked and they wanted the Democrat King.

These problems are born from the CHILDISH sore loser attitude of the left. After all, the left, the law school elite, they where chosen to be the leaders and it isn't fair that they lost. The other side must have cheated.



I am sick of this. Until these reports can come out when both sides win, they are suspect. I am sure that if Hillary wins in 2008, even by a close margin (and not a Bush BLOWOUT margin) the press will not even bother with this crap propaganda.



GROW THE F**K UP.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I support a paper trail & think the votes should be counted & recounted till everyone's happy, but this BS is a sad example of how out of touch a large part of the Democratic party is with the rest of the electorate.

What's that long river in the Middle East, oh yeah, De Nile....

Stunts like this are going to further distance the Democrats from reality.

I watch the threads in P&N & see all the hearty backslapping & condemnations & think to myself, you poor fvckers, how out of touch are you guys with your personal lives if you can believe this kind crap.

Sad really.

And I think "Does anybody really take what's posted here seriously?"

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: irwincur
It won't be fair until a Democrat wins...


These problems are not new. Why was it not an issue when Clinton lost the popualr vote yet won, barely? Three states were as close in 1992 and 1996 as they were this year yet there were no calls for recounts and JUSTICE. Because, well, the people talked and they wanted the Democrat King.

These problems are born from the CHILDISH sore loser attitude of the left. After all, the left, the law school elite, they where chosen to be the leaders and it isn't fair that they lost. The other side must have cheated.



I am sick of this. Until these reports can come out when both sides win, they are suspect. I am sure that if Hillary wins in 2008, even by a close margin (and not a Bush BLOWOUT margin) the press will not even bother with this crap propaganda.



GROW THE F**K UP.

It's ok Umbrella... "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." They're fighting us now.

 

[gt07]

wow, the gop talking points must be out there telling everybody to claim that the dems are out of touch. some of you morons are truly starting to believe this.

let me tell ya, jesse jackson respresents a majority of dems :roll:

 

[frankie38]

Jesse go have another affair!

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: gt07
wow, the gop talking points must be out there telling everybody to claim that the dems are out of touch. some of you morons are truly starting to believe this.

let me tell ya, jesse jackson respresents a majority of dems :roll:

Seems like Kerry & McAuliffe do represent the Dems.. You need to re read the article & pay closer attention...

Originally posted by: irwincur
It won't be fair until a Democrat wins...


These problems are not new. Why was it not an issue when Clinton lost the popualr vote yet won, barely? Three states were as close in 1992 and 1996 as they were this year yet there were no calls for recounts and JUSTICE. Because, well, the people talked and they wanted the Democrat King.

These problems are born from the CHILDISH sore loser attitude of the left. After all, the left, the law school elite, they where chosen to be the leaders and it isn't fair that they lost. The other side must have cheated.



I am sick of this. Until these reports can come out when both sides win, they are suspect. I am sure that if Hillary wins in 2008, even by a close margin (and not a Bush BLOWOUT margin) the press will not even bother with this crap propaganda.



GROW THE F**K UP.

LOL...

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I support a paper trail & think the votes should be counted & recounted till everyone's happy, but this BS is a sad example of how out of touch a large part of the Democratic party is with the rest of the electorate.

What's that long river in the Middle East, oh yeah, De Nile....

Stunts like this are going to further distance the Democrats from reality.

I watch the threads in P&N & see all the hearty backslapping & condemnations & think to myself, you poor fvckers, how out of touch are you guys with your personal lives if you can believe this kind crap.

Sad really.

And I think "Does anybody really take what's posted here seriously?"

Do you want a list?

Oops, that (a list) could be construed as a personal attack & get me banned...

What I'd like to see is the stats if the Dems go a bit more centrist & purposely piss off the tail of the left side of the bell curve to shake off some of the loons versus what they could pick up in the center of the bell curve...

 

[Rainsford]

First of all, I think Bush probably won fair and square. That being said, I find it disturbing when people react to efforts to re-count the election with nasty comments and closeminded talking points. Let me make it clear, I don't think most of you Bush supporters in this thread care one little bit about whether or not the election was fair. You aren't attacking the recount efforts on principle or because you feel the election was fair, you are attacking the efforts because your guy won. I might be wrong, but I sure don't think you'd be making a big stink about recounts being stupid if Bush had lost.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, democracy works best when everyone involved is convinced the process was fair. If enough people think the election was rigged, it doesn't matter what really happened, we should let them investigate and probe and bitch and moan to their heart's content. And when the election process comes out of it without any dings, we'll feel that much better about the process as a whole.

Edit: To make this point extra strength clear, why would you oppose efforts to convince everyone involved that the election was fair? How can that hurt? And wouldn't it help to have EVERYONE on board with the results?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
First of all, I think Bush probably won fair and square. That being said, I find it disturbing when people react to efforts to re-count the election with nasty comments and closeminded talking points. Let me make it clear, I don't think most of you Bush supporters in this thread care one little bit about whether or not the election was fair. You aren't attacking the recount efforts on principle or because you feel the election was fair, you are attacking the efforts because your guy won. I might be wrong, but I sure don't think you'd be making a big stink about recounts being stupid if Bush had lost.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, democracy works best when everyone involved is convinced the process was fair. If enough people think the election was rigged, it doesn't matter what really happened, we should let them investigate and probe and bitch and moan to their heart's content. And when the election process comes out of it without any dings, we'll feel that much better about the process as a whole.

And while we're on the topic of "being out of touch", I think the Republicans will be in trouble if the "silence all dissent" people (Pliablemoose, irwincur, etc) become a majority. And they are moving that way. Here's a newsflash, most Americans don't like that sort of radical behavior, and it will bite you in the ass, I guarentee it.

LOL, I'm independent & vote both sides of the ticket, I just couldn't stomach Kerry.

Thanks for playing though...

You didn't even read my first sentence in my first post did you?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Rainsford
First of all, I think Bush probably won fair and square. That being said, I find it disturbing when people react to efforts to re-count the election with nasty comments and closeminded talking points. Let me make it clear, I don't think most of you Bush supporters in this thread care one little bit about whether or not the election was fair. You aren't attacking the recount efforts on principle or because you feel the election was fair, you are attacking the efforts because your guy won. I might be wrong, but I sure don't think you'd be making a big stink about recounts being stupid if Bush had lost.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, democracy works best when everyone involved is convinced the process was fair. If enough people think the election was rigged, it doesn't matter what really happened, we should let them investigate and probe and bitch and moan to their heart's content. And when the election process comes out of it without any dings, we'll feel that much better about the process as a whole.

And while we're on the topic of "being out of touch", I think the Republicans will be in trouble if the "silence all dissent" people (Pliablemoose, irwincur, etc) become a majority. And they are moving that way. Here's a newsflash, most Americans don't like that sort of radical behavior, and it will bite you in the ass, I guarentee it.

LOL, I'm independent & vote both sides of the ticket, I just couldn't stomach Kerry.

Thanks for playing though...

You didn't even read my first sentence in my first post did you?

I edited out that last part since it doesn't reallly help anything, but I stand by what I said, even if you think you are "independent", you come off like a "silence all dissent" type, at least on line, and so do a lot of you fellow Bush voters. If that becomes a big part of the attitude of the right, I can see that turning off a lot of Americans. It's not just you, it's many of the Bush voters I've talked to who think everyone should just shut up and like it.

And I did read your post, you support fair elections, unless it's the Democrats trying to do it, does that about sum it up? I can't figure out another way to read what is essentially, "I support recounts until everyone is happy, but the Democrats are stupid for trying to get recounts until everyone is happy." Maybe you can explain your gibberish a little better.

 

[imported_Condor]

Like usual, Jessee is just looking for some more money on the liberal money tree. Why doesn't he ever try to help in the more depressed parts of the world. He just sucks up to whoever has the money to attract him in the liberal camp.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The Dems just can't give it up.

It's only speculative, but if the truth is with them, why would you, or any "conservative" who really believes in the democratic process, have a problem with it? Would you really want to keep Bush in office if it turned out that Bush only won through fraud, or even an innocent mistake?

It's their dime to pursue it. The worst that could happen is, one way or another, we'll all know the same truth. :beer:

You can only dream! When will the Democrats give up on spending tons of money in hopes of finding some way to steal an election? Just like in 2001 and the millions they spent in the great plan to win in 2004. They completely failed to accomplish the goals they were in pursuit of and then they have the nerve to complain about the planning of the Bush administration! Beyond belief!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: polm
Hopefully, the movement to fix these serious issues with our election/voting process will not be "over" until the problems have been corrected.

Don't you hope for the same result, Rip ? Don't you want to have a national voting system that we can all feel confident in ?

Polm if you truly think this has little to do with overthrowing bush then you are truly out of touch.

So you would have the public simply disregard all of the allegations and evidence of voting system flaws and failures ?

Reagardless of the intentions; There is serious evidence that the 2004 vote was not conducted to the level that , I beleive, most Americans expect.

Most Americans never paid any attention to any of this until the Democrats started losing and grasping at straws. Everyone knew that the system is gigantic and that there are error rates involved. It is like the PCAM (Punch Card Accounting Machine) method of collecting the votes used in 2001. Everyone knew that there was a 1% to 1.5% error rate to that system and it had been used for years in the international banking industry. The error rate oscillated across zeron and it all worked out until Gore tried to capture the 1% to 1.5% error and put it into his pocket and take an election. Millions spent and for what? Who even read the after action reports?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
"I support recounts until everyone is happy, but the Democrats are stupid for trying to get recounts until everyone is happy." Maybe you can explain your gibberish a little better.

Yep, that's about right...

Let's see we had thousands of laywers observing the polls but still need a recount...

Kerry himself conceeded but we still need a recount

We had international observers but still need a recount.

Get over it

Red Dawn, I think we can add Rainsford to that list I was talking about.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Condor
You can only dream! When will the Democrats give up on spending tons of money in hopes of finding some way to steal an election?

Steal??? Nobody said anything about STEALING an election, and as I said, it's their freaking dime! Those challenging the election results are paying for the recount.

What are you going to say if the investigations actually document significant fraud? What are you going to say if a well documented recount reverses the results? How can you say you believe in democracy if you aren't willing to live with whatever the truth happens to be?

I would think those were conservative values... Or would you rather live with the lies?

And yes, I can dream. That isn't illegal, either... yet!

 

[Pliablemoose]

Looks like Harvey makes the list too...