Originally posted by: rahvin
Israel will get a moderate government when the Palestinians take a lesson from Ghandi and stop attacking the Israeli citizens directly. When you blow up peoples friends and neighbors on a bus to work people start having very little sympathy for their cause. It's a simple fact, the Israeli government was much more moderate before the 2000 intifada started and the conservatives/settlement sympathisers only gained power after the palestinians started blowing up bus fulls of children.
All democracies would be reacting the same way Israel is if bus fulls of people were being blow up by terrorists. Hell 3000 people die in two buildings and we invade two countries and destroy their governments. Israel has over 10,000 casulaties since 2000.
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Your ignorance is astounding. If you know ANYTHING about the real history of the middle east, Isreal is not a victim but rather the aggressor.
And who are the terrorists? Hmm?
The people of Palestine who dont have a country to call their own, besieged by one of the worlds most powerful army complete with more weapons of mass destruction than virtually any country besides the US and Russia?
I would venture to say there alot more terrorists on the side of Isreal than there ever where on the side of Palestinians.
You can't apply your black and white view of the world on the middle east. It doesn't work.
Originally posted by: Crimson
The hatred toward Israel is just amazing, considering they are a TINY country in a HUGE sea of extremist Muslim nations.. just trying to survive. If Israel pulled out of nearly everywhere, and kept a tiny 100 mile by 100 mile section for them to live in, the Palestinians would STILL be trying to kill them. Palestinians won't be happy until every last Jew is either DEAD or out of Israel. They will accept nothing less, which has been proven TIME and TIME again.
As others have stated, the new land that Israel occupies was taken AFTER they were attacked by Arab nations.. The Arabs LOST.. Its not like Israel just went and took the land.
Its amazing how people demand Israel get a moderate government, when terrorists leading the Palestinian government is OK.. The Palestinians have forced a heavy handed government out of Israel because of their terrorist actions. Every time a moderate government is put in place in Israel, and concessions are offered, the Palestinians turn them down and attack.
Originally posted by: prometheusxls
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Your ignorance is astounding. If you know ANYTHING about the real history of the middle east, Isreal is not a victim but rather the aggressor.
And who are the terrorists? Hmm?
The people of Palestine who dont have a country to call their own, besieged by one of the worlds most powerful army complete with more weapons of mass destruction than virtually any country besides the US and Russia?
I would venture to say there alot more terrorists on the side of Isreal than there ever where on the side of Palestinians.
You can't apply your black and white view of the world on the middle east. It doesn't work.
I concur with this statement. The fact that Israel has the strongest military presence in the region and is using that military against All palestininas (terrorists and non-violent alike), holding all occupied territory in a death grip that within 1-2 genereation will result in more or less total palestinan extermination. This is all done without regard to internaitonal law. I don't feel sorry for Israel (goverment at all) at all. I compare the Palestinain situation with that of native americans 130 years ago.
If Israel pulled out of everywhere, alowed a palestinian state to form, and stopped their agression toward their neighbors, then I think most people on this forum would agree with you that people need to stop hating Israel. Untill then as far as I am concerned you are on your own.
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: prometheusxls
I concur with this statement. The fact that Israel has the strongest military presence in the region and is using that military against All palestininas (terrorists and non-violent alike), holding all occupied territory in a death grip that within 1-2 genereation will result in more or less total palestinan extermination. This is all done without regard to internaitonal law. I don't feel sorry for Israel (goverment at all) at all. I compare the Palestinain situation with that of native americans 130 years ago.
If Israel has the strongest army in the ME and uses this army against ALL Palestinians while flouting International law, would you please explain why it is going to take 1 - 2 generations to wipe out all Palestinians? By your reasoning, all Palestinians would be wiped out tomorrow.
Of course, a better and more reasonable explanation might be that the current state of Palestinian suffering is caused by Palestinian Societies refusal to reject terrorism and violence and to denounce those who support it. Israel's so-called "death grip" is only a normal response by a society which is terrorized daily by homicidal fundamentalists.
The Palestinains aren't being wiped out as a result of military force. They are dieing as a result of being confined. Keeping the palestinians in their setlements, which are constantly shrinking, becoming more fractured, etc... is a recipie for genocide in its self. Examine how an endanged speciaes is effected when its habitable terriroty is wiped out and then fractued by roads, development etc... Palestinains have no government and no means to promote the common good. There is little availalbe work or industry, birthrates and life expectancy is very low. If you look at figures about population data for palestianns over time (for the past 75 years) you will see how this corelates.
It seems that in each military engagement the palestinians constantly lose more lives than the Israelis. And for each terror attack by palestine there is a similar reprisal agains settlements by Israel. However the Israelis atacks are more effective becasue of advance weapons, etc... Resulting again in more palestinians killed.
Many people seem to over look some of the main differences between the Israelis citiczen and the Palestinain in terms of daily life. The Isralis have a country and a military. They have an economy, they have jobs. It is very similar to being an American, except for slightly greater risk of dieing in a terror attack. I hold Israel to the same standard I would hold and civilized country. The palestians have been refugees for 50 years. They have no government. They have very little in the way of economy. They can't govern them selves they can't really enforce laws because there is no infastructure or police. The palestinians as a group are unable to do anything. That includes war, ruling themselves, fighting terrorisim internally, taxation, etc... Palestinains are a disorganized group of indivduals fighting for survival.
I agree wiht you last post max. I do understand why Israel has its policies that it does. But I don't think they are right and I am sure there must be abetter way. I also believe that until there is a democratic palestine then the terrositst will continue to control the equation on the palestinian side. Which as you say is the main obstacle against peace. In my opinion Israel needs to allow a palestinain state to form. Then and only then can we deal with the issue of stoping terrorisim, as palestinians policeing their own. How to do that, well I have no idea.
Originally posted by: PentiumIV
In this particular case it was proven that the trees were cut by Palestinians !
Frequently, BTW, Israeli Army cuts trees near the roads and demolishes buildings, because they are used by Palestinian terrorists as coverups to attack.
Originally posted by: Doboji
You people make me f-in sick!....
I have to gather myself here to make an intelligent response because right now I just want to smack each and every one of you!...
The Jenin massacre?.... is that kinda like the Alien invasion?... because they both have on thing in common.... they're not real. How many human rights organizations have to reiterate time and time again how there was no Jenin massacre before you get it through your thick heads that it simply did not happen?
As for your lists of Israeli "terrorist" acts... do I really need to post all the incidents of Palestinian terrorism?... I assure you my friend, that list would be quite a bit longer, and more insidious.
If Israel used the same methods that your Arab compatriots used, there would be NO Palestinians. It is by the restraing of Israel alone that you even exist. So by all means spew your venomous lies, we all know that if you say a lie enough times, it becomes truth. Thats your method, thats your technique... just keep at it....
Do Settlers destroy olive trees? yeah they do sometimes.... Is it wrong?... yes it is... Does it compare with shooting families as they drive down the road?.... Ummmm if you think so, I seriously recommend a psychological evaluation.
-Max
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The Israelis are teaching the Palistinians the lesson the Palistinians are teaching the Israelis. Everybody is teaching but nobody is learning. So sad for the children.
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: PentiumIV
In this particular case it was proven that the trees were cut by Palestinians !
Frequently, BTW, Israeli Army cuts trees near the roads and demolishes buildings, because they are used by Palestinian terrorists as coverups to attack.
what?!?! you expect facts to matter to the palestinian apologists?