Jews protesting against Israel????

[dababus]

Link here

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I never thought I would say this at ATOT . . . that's interesting.

 

[Passner]

What exactly are you trying to imply by linking to that article?

 

[aphex]

agreed, very interesting

 

[j0lly]

<< I never thought I would say this at ATOT . . . that's interesting. >>



Indeed.

 

[Pocatello]

I'm sure there are a lot of Americans opposed to the existence of the United States of America too . Another thing, are these Isreali Jews or a bunch of cracked up New Yorker Jews?

 

[Passner]

what is so interesting? That a group of wacko chasids won't settle for a Jewish Israel until Moschiach comes? These are the same people who believe the Rebbe is almost like a Jesus figure, and a group who only give you the time of day if you belong to their own little devout sect.

 

[CichliSuite]

Sure. There are many Jews (often academics) who feel that Israel was not the divine-induced creation that other Jews make it out to be. They oppose the government strong-arm tactics used, and only made more blatant and forceful by Sharon's control. MANY, MANY Jews know what Sharon is about and recognize that he is going to be the downfall of any peaceful/sensible existence of Israel.

 

[Passner]

Chicli, no offense, but you know nothing about why they are protesting. These people hate Israel because it is not religious enough. They were opposed to it in 1948, and they are opposed now. They do not want a Jewish controlled Israel until the Messiah tells them to return to Israel, whenever that will happen. Their views have nothing to do with Sharon.

 

[Random Variable]

They're protesting the fact that most Jews aren't "Jewish" enough. That's very typical of the orthodox.

 

[Pocatello]

The more suicide bombings there are the more Sharon's popularity will rise even his tactics has not brought peace like he promised.

 

[Random Variable]

I think Passner and I are the only two people here who understand why they are protesting.

 

[Passner]

Vespy, please do not generalize the Orthodox like that. I am Orthodox, albeit it Modern Orthodox. These people are Chasiddim, or as some might call them, the Ultra-Ultra Orthodox. Many of their views are frowned upon by traditional Orthodoxy, because we recognizr their irrationalities. This protest is just part of the problem.

 

[Random Variable]

<< Vespy, please do not generalize the Orthodox like that. I am Orthodox, albeit it Modern Orthodox. These people are Chasiddim, or as some might call them, the Ultra-Ultra Orthodox. Many of their views are frowned upon by traditional Orthodoxy, because we recognizr their irrationalities. This protest is just part of the problem. >>


Sorry. I shouldn't generalize But my grandparents travelled to Israel many times in 70's and 80's, and they would always tell me how ostracized they felt in the ultra-Orthodox villages, as if they were looked down upon for being "bad" jews.

 

[Passner]

the ultra-orthodox are a bit cukoo, and they basically control Jeruslem now There is one neighborhood in Israel called Meah Sheariim. If you drive past there on shabbos, they will throw stones at your car. These people have no tolerance for those who have differing belief who just want some slack cut in that regard. I have my views, but I do not chastize others for their actions, as long as they are not harmful to others, or insulting to my core beliefs, or just plain ignorent These people have no respect, and in a way it is sort of disgraceful.

 

[b0mbrman]

Muslims protesting against Israel???

Looks like there are others who don't like Israel too.

Here's one: Link
And another: <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020217/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_explosion_12
And again: [l=Link]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020216/wl_nm/mideast_rocket_dc_6">Link</a>
And some more: Link
And another: Link
And more: Link
More: Link
Finally: Link

Protests aren't limited to Jews it seems Let these other jews cry about it...they're not hurting anybody

 

[CichliSuite]

Passner, when you are as orthodox as they are, driving on shabbos is an insult to their beliefs.

See? It's all relative - yet religion tries to teach otherwise. And therein lies the problem.

 

[Passner]

thanks for keeping it real b0mbrman. I was getting caught of with the chassid's problems. As bad as they are, they NEVER kill anyone because of their beliefs, and they never force people to live in fear 24-7-365.

 

[Passner]

Suiitey, I do not drive on the Sabbath, however I do not attempt to disrupt the lives of those who do. I consider it an insult to drive on the Sabbath if it is in line with all of your other beliefs, but to get worked up to the point where they react how they react ... ?

 

[etech]

Israel's history of bomb blasts

Sometime I would like to know how many people believe that Jews were not living in the Palestinian area before 1948.

 

[somethingwitty]

for once i dont think passner's going overboard

There are many nuts who feel that no one else is religious enough for them...



<< Passner, when you are as orthodox as they are, driving on shabbos is an insult to their beliefs. >>



First of all, the main problem that modern orthodox people have with the orthodox extremists is that they arent tolerant of other viewpoints. as passner mentioned, that clearly holds true in Meah Sheariim; my aunt was once walking there with her husband and 2 young daughters and the local nutjobs felt that the fact that her elbows were showing was the worst thing imaginable. one of them covered his eyes and proceeded to shout the word pritzah (might be the wrong word-something that's hebrew for "whore") as a crowd gathered around my aunt and her two daughters (her husband was in a store down the block). they were ready to throw rocks before she ran into a store and waited for her husband; luckily they didnt do anything...

These people are beyond insulted over these issues-they honestly feel that you are the worst person ever if you dont live up to their standards

 

[Mavrick]

That protest means nothing...
There will always be people protesting against everything...

For example, right here in Canada, there are protests at University against publicity and capitalism.
So, can we say that Canadians hate capitalism and are trying to switch for a communist government?
So why should a protest against Israel indicate that the Jews are against it??

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Interesting b/c the typical ATOT Israel thread goes . . .

Palestinians are evil. Israel is good.

No Israel is bad. Palestinians are good.

No Palestinians are ALL terrorists. Israel is just defending itself.

No Israelis are ALL oppressors. Palestinians are just defending themselves.

Sharon is an evil fat man. Arafat is an evil smelly man.

Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed Judaism are all very interesting to some; especially to those of us who happen to know more than one Jew not named Seinfeld.

I'm sure there are a lot of Americans opposed to the existence of the United States of America too

Yeah, primarily the ones that were here first .

thanks for keeping it real b0mbrman. I was getting caught of with the chassid's problems. As bad as they are, they NEVER kill anyone because of their beliefs, and they never force people to live in fear 24-7-365.

I wish that were true, Passner.

Actually, I'm not trying to defame the chassid . . . but every group of nuts has a violent nut or two that will do anything for the cause.

 

[Passner]

Amir wasn't a chassid, he was an extremist terrorist without a devout bone in his body. What he did was despicable. It was not however, a chassidic act. They just do things like yell and threaten a girl who shows her ankles (Happened to an accquaintance) or cut ahead of lines at supermarkets using the excuse that they are "special." People that tick me off, they are, however they are NOT murderers.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Amir wasn't a chassid, he was an extremist terrorist without a devout bone in his body.

I included the last line about not defaming chassid b/c I didn't think Amir was chassid. As for whether or not he is devout, I don't have a dog in that fight but I would wager that he believes that his act was necessary and his cause is just.

Yigal Amir, a 27-year-old Jewish law student, told police that he had "no regrets" and was acting on the "orders of God." According to Israeli radio, when he was told that Rabin died in surgery after being shot in the arm and back, Amir said, "I'm satisfied."

People that tick me off, they are, however they are NOT murderers.

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I stand corrected for associating chassid with violence. It's just been my experience that when absolute POVs exist it is only a matter of time before any act becomes justifiable. Then again I would never say that about Quakers or Amish so maybe I'm just showing my ignorance.