Jim Keller leaves AMD

[frozentundra123456]

And you don't think Intel has its own fanboys? Do you recall the Athlon XP vs hot running slow P4s or the glorious pre-C2D K8 days? How vocal the P4 fans were with their inferior yet still capable products?

Living in the past are we? What does the good old days when AMD was better or at least competitive have to do with the current situation? I am with Boze on this one. It is not really AMD or its products that engender the ill will, but the continual overhyping, cherry picked benchmarks, and excuse making for inferior products. "Oh poor AMD, their products are old, they are on an inferior node, they dont have the research budget of intel, it is all the fault of GF, etc." Not my problem. If you are going to be in the cpu business it is your responsibility to bring out new products on competitive nodes, with competitive performance and performance/watt.

Btw, I used to be a fan of AMD, and one of my favorite cpus ever was an athlon xp 2600.
But since core, and especially since Bulldozer, I have gone intel and never looked back. I am actually using an AMD gpu now, and think they provide good performance for the dollar, but even their gpus are in danger of becoming similar to their cpus, sorely lacking updated architecture and efficiency.

Edit: Oh yea, I forgot that one: DX12 is going to change everything, just like for how many years there has always been some software or other thing that is suddenly going to make AMD the king of the hill again.

 

[witeken]

Does anyone has SA subscription; the tags are pretty funny.

https://semiaccurate.com/2015/09/08/behind-amds-new-funding/

 

[Fjodor2001]

Here is what Anandtech has to say about it:

Given the long (4+ year) design cycles for a modern high-performance CPU, at this point in time all of the "heavy lifting" on Zen development should be done. With only a year or so to go before launch, the rest of Keller's team at AMD will be focusing on fixing bugs and bringing products to manufacturing.

As a result while the loss of Keller is certainly a significant one for AMD, Keller's architecture work on Zen should already be complete, which is likely why we are seeing him leave at this time. And as a quick aside to give you an idea of CPU development timelines, by comparison, Jim's work on K8 was done over 3 years before K8 shipped in 2003.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Except that's not the choice you're being given.

What you're being given is the choice between a 2016 Hyundai Elantra or a 2012 Audi A6.

I'll take the A6 every time.

I tell you what, I'll end this debate right here, right now.

That's a wonderful example of why you are totally wrong.

You just proved my point. Volkswagon/Audi reliability is at the bottom of the barrel for automobiles. Hyundai is among the most reliable, has the best warranty and their quality numbers are now the highest in the industry.

Thank you for proving my point:
You are pennywise and pound foolish.

http://oppositelock.**********/long-term-quality-the-audi-syndrome-1683110437
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html
http://www.autonews.com/article/201....d.-powers-initial-quality-study-for-1st-time

Sorry to the mods for being off-topic, but the analogy is valuable.
The educated consumer picks the brand new Hyundai every time unless they like walking / meeting their tow truck operator regularly.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Where are you getting these numbers? 12 hours a day for 365 days for 4 years is 17520 hours. Do you really think these office machines got used 12 hours a day? Most of them are probably 8 hours top. A few might have been in institutions, say maybe in a university library... so they might be used from... what? 14 hours a day? Still far shy of your estimate.

The majority of desktops in enterprise usually don't get powered down -- because IT managers have the computers downloading Windows Updates and other software fixes after hours. 25000-30000 hours of usage is expected out of most machines coming back from a 4 year lease.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Incorrect. This can also be seen on GPU sales.

It is a totally made up point. AMD's GPU marketshare just recently increased -- and the new 300 series of Radeons are mostly rebranded older cards with similar power consumption traits.

http://www.barrons.com/articles/amds-retakes-ground-in-graphics-1442258359

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-r9-390x-r9-380-r7-370,4178-9.html

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

I don't hate AMD.

Sure.

Nothing you say will change the fact that AMD performance is garbage compared to Intel. This isn't fanboyism, its clearly objective looking at AnandTech's Bench.

Intel has held the performance crown for a decade. They're going to continue to hold it. I can't wait till AMD goes bankrupt, gets sold off to the highest bidder, and they manage to take AMD's IP and make a decent produce for once.

You can't even keep track of the trollish nonsense coming out of your mouth.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It is a totally made up point. AMD's GPU marketshare just recently increased -- and the new 300 series of Radeons are mostly rebranded older cards with similar power consumption traits.

http://www.barrons.com/articles/amds-retakes-ground-in-graphics-1442258359

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-r9-390x-r9-380-r7-370,4178-9.html

No they didnt. You should read what you link to.

 

[mrmt]

The majority of desktops in enterprise usually don't get powered down -- because IT managers have the computers downloading Windows Updates and other software fixes after hours. 25000-30000 hours of usage is expected out of most machines coming back from a 4 year lease.

Wake-up-on-lan, someone?

 

[Phynaz]

Wake-up-on-lan, someone?

Beat me to it. Middle has no clue about enterprise IT.

 

[mrmt]

Beat me to it. Middle has no clue about enterprise IT.

Worthy of a new sig.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Wake on LAN usually doesn't work on WLAN, e.g. Laptops that are not connected to a LAN.

Also, most people don't power down their office PCs anyway. I've only worked at one company where there was a policy to power down computers when leaving the office, but no one followed those directions anyway. Not worth the hassle.

 

[Phynaz]

WOL is not supposed to function on a wireless connection. What do you want to do, wake up a laptop in somebody's bag in thier trunk so it gets cooked?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Wake on LAN usually doesn't work on WLAN, e.g. Laptops that are not connected to a LAN.

Also, most people don't power down their office PCs anyway. I've only worked at one company where there was a policy to power down computers when leaving the office, but no one followed those directions anyway. Not worth the hassle.

Don't know about you, but my company forces group policies down for making systems sleep after they're idle for a while. If you work remotely enough (or have tasks that need to run), you can get exemptions and whatnot. And Windows Update can bring a system out of sleep...

 

[ShintaiDK]

I never heard of any company that didnt shutdown their desktops. Also the security people both shutdown desktops as they turn off any lights not turned off. As well as checking doors and windows.

Software management is easy to do. But none of the solutions requires desktops to run 24/7. Vast majority today is laptops as well. So any software deployment and updates needs to be done in their online time.

Its quite clear to see who works with enterprise IT and who doesnt.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I am beginning to wonder what some of this banter has to do with Jim Keller . . . but hey, Dr. Cutress said it well. That's probably the last, best word on the subject.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Beat me to it. Middle has no clue about enterprise IT.

Not everyone uses it. Most government agencies do not. Especially when machines are connected to an intranet connection (not internet).

 

[mrmt]

Not everyone uses it. Most government agencies do not. Especially when machines are connected to an intranet connection (not internet).

What does WOL has to do with being on an intranet?

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

I never heard of any company that didnt shutdown their desktops. Also the security people both shutdown desktops as they turn off any lights not turned off. As well as checking doors and windows.

Software management is easy to do. But none of the solutions requires desktops to run 24/7. Vast majority today is laptops as well. So any software deployment and updates needs to be done in their online time.

Its quite clear to see who works with enterprise IT and who doesnt.

I guess you don't have cash registers and ATM machines in Europe.

Every company I've ever worked at leaves the desktops running 24/7. Either in sleep mode or full operation. Of course, I work in a very specialized field: Point of Sales devices. But the fact remains: many desktops are running 24 hours a day / 7 days a week. Point of Sales devices are still mostly desktop, although mobile devices (especially iPhones) have made some recent gains.

What I'm saying is very common in the United States -- Today it's still about 1 out of every 3 desktops:
http://www.environmentalleader.com/...-waste-28-billion-annually-to-power-idle-pcs/

When I started in 1994, it was probably about 50-60% of all enterprise desktops.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

What does WOL has to do with being on an intranet?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wake-on-LAN

"Wake-on-LAN (WOL) is a feature to switch on a computer via a network connection (be it the internet or intranet)."

 

[mrmt]

You're such a newbie.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wake-on-LAN

Do you really understand what you are posting, or you are just trying to dig this hole deeper?

Ed: Oh, it seems that you at least know how to read a wiki:

Y"Wake-on-LAN (WOL) is a feature to switch on a computer via a network connection (be it the internet or intranet)."

Yes, it doesn't matter whether you are plugged or not to the internet, you can use WOL in both situations.

Ed2:

Every company I've ever worked at leaves the desktops running 24/7. Either in sleep mode or full operation

I think you should be confusing sleep mode with hibernation. You usually see a combination of both on power management policies.

 

[Boze]

That's a wonderful example of why you are totally wrong.

You just proved my point. Volkswagon/Audi reliability is at the bottom of the barrel for automobiles. Hyundai is among the most reliable, has the best warranty and their quality numbers are now the highest in the industry.

Thank you for proving my point:
You are pennywise and pound foolish.

http://oppositelock.**********/long-term-quality-the-audi-syndrome-1683110437
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html
http://www.autonews.com/article/201....d.-powers-initial-quality-study-for-1st-time

Sorry to the mods for being off-topic, but the analogy is valuable.
The educated consumer picks the brand new Hyundai every time unless they like walking / meeting their tow truck operator regularly.

Yet again, you just don't get it...

Do you know why I bought an Audi Pre-Certified 2013 Audi A6 for $36,000 from Braman Audi in West Palm Beach, FL?

Because an A6 is a superior car to a Hyundai Sonata. Its superior to a new Hyundai Genesis. Sort of like how a $300 quad-core / 8 thread system is superior to anything AMD I could buy for $300.

Your analogy breaks down a little bit here because my Audi came with a 6 year / 100,000 mile warranty. I bought it in March of this year, so I'm covered until 2019, or until the odometer hits 100,000. Good thing its at 37,000 and I don't drive anywhere close to 10,000 miles a year.

Again, I re-iterate... if either of these systems breaks down... I'll either A) troubleshoot the system and replace the broken part from the huge stack of old parts in my Sterilite bins or I'll B) just buy another office machine for $299 (or less) and swap out hard drives.

Your idiot analogy works fine for poor people who have to settle for a $20,000 car that they depend on. It does not work for people with high disposable income.

My A6 has something your Hyundais don't have. Status.

You're trying hard to save face, but keep looking worse and worse. At some point though, you will give up, I'm just not sure when we reach that point.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Yet again, you just don't get it...

Do you know why I bought an Audi Pre-Certified 2013 Audi A6 for $36,000 from Braman Audi in West Palm Beach, FL?

Answer: Because you are pretentious. And the rest of us don't care.

 

[Boze]

Second, You were talking about lower power consumption before but not now. Your 80W TDP XEON will have way higher idle power consumption than any new system being Intel or even AMD Kaveri. And it will certainly have higher power consumption than new Intel CPUs when the CPU will work at 100%.

Thirdly, not everyone would like to buy a USED 4-5 year old Workstation even if it is cheaper and more powerful than the same priced current new hardware. It lacks new features and it is used without any warranty. Not everyone is fine paying for that.

Why can you guys not keep up with what about to have been a non-discussion in the first place...

I was talking about TDP and power usage when MiddleOfTheRoad tried to make my post about OFFICE MACHINES IN A CORPORATE ENVIRONMENT, which it was never about.

My post was, and always has been, about buying dirt cheap for the hardware you get refurbished off-lease computers for family members who might play Candy Crush Saga on it at most, or in the case of my brother, Telltale Games like The Walking Dead and A Wolf Among Us.

In my Mom and sister's case, they both got old OptiPlex machines two years ago, with Ubuntu Linux installed. They can't even tell a difference between that and Windows, because all they do is check Facebook, email, Pinterest, and occasionally load up LibreOffice and write a letter.

I'm not buying them new AMD-based machines, not while there's still Sandy Bridge / Ivy Bridge hardware on the market for dirt cheap. And guess what? In 2 years there'll be cheap Devil's Canyon machines available. So I still won't buy AMD-based machines for them.

 

[Boze]

Answer: Because you are pretentious. And the rest of us don't care.

Maybe its just because I have more money than you and I want a car that performs better than a Sonata...

Sort of like the reason my personal workstation is based off an i7 5960X and not a 9570 or whatever piece of junk AMD has a top-end processor.

I guess you'll try to convince me that I should have bought one of those instead of getting my i7 5960X and overclocking it to 4.0 gHz.