Jim Keller leaves AMD

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

At what? 2.7Ghz vs 4Ghz?

Different architectures. One designed with a long pipe for high clock speeds and the other not so much.

People keep talking about AMD lagging behind Intel at single threaded -- but that is at the high end.... Honestly, AMD hasn't fielded a new flagship product since Vishera debuted in 2012. That's a really long time for Intel to be completely unchallenged.

At the low end -- an Athlon X4 860k is actually faster at single threaded performance than a Haswell Celeron G1820 according to Passmark. So people really need to clarify the i5 / i7 Haswells because AMD already is building chips that run with low-end Haswells in single threaded performance.

 

[Fjodor2001]

You're kidding, right?

No. So far the only info we've seen is that Zen is supposed to be released 2016Q4. Anything else is just speculation.

Do you have some source saying otherwise?

 

[JoeRambo]

No. So far the only info we've seen is that Zen is supposed to be released 2016Q4. Anything else is just speculation.

Do you have some source saying otherwise?

Given how solid AMD record to over-promise and under-deliver while being massively late at same time is, no one is taking any of their roadmaps or performance "estimates" seriously. With record like theirs, it's not doubters who have to provide "facts", but rather AMD needs half of decade of clean record for anyone to even start taking their claims seriously.

 

[AtenRa]

Roadmaps are subject to change without notice for everyone, including Intel and NVIDIA. All three have change their roadmaps in the past, they will do the same in the future.

 

[Enigmoid]

Roadmaps are subject to change without notice for everyone, including Intel and NVIDIA. All three have change their roadmaps in the past, they will do the same in the future.

Yep. However, it is looking more and more likely that Zen will be physically launching in 2017.

 

[Boze]

Yep. However, it is looking more and more likely that Zen will be physically launching in 2017.

That's funny, because at the rate things are going, AMD is going to be physically shut down in 2016.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Given how solid AMD record to over-promise and under-deliver while being massively late at same time is, no one is taking any of their roadmaps or performance "estimates" seriously. With record like theirs, it's not doubters who have to provide "facts", but rather AMD needs half of decade of clean record for anyone to even start taking their claims seriously.

Sure, all roadmaps can change, for all companies. I would not say AMD has been worse than Intel in this regard the last few years.

But until there is evidence of such roadmap changes, such guesstimated changes are just speculation. Zen might be delayed to 2018, it may be canceled, or it may be released in 2016Q2. But again, that is just speculation.

The problem with Phynaz is that he considers his own FUD speculations as truth and a legitimate source, and cannot see how others can think otherwise. That is just ridiculous.

 

[jj109]

At the low end -- an Athlon X4 860k is actually faster at single threaded performance than a Haswell Celeron G1820 according to Passmark. So people really need to clarify the i5 / i7 Haswells because AMD already is building chips that run with low-end Haswells in single threaded performance.

LOL the $85 vs $45 budget CPU death match. AMD is sure fighting the good fight that no one wants to fight.

 

[Boze]

LOL the $85 vs $45 budget CPU death match. AMD is sure fighting the good fight that no one wants to fight.

Who would buy a $50 chip, then have to buy a $50 motherboard, then buy $50 in RAM, then buy a $50 - 75 hard drive, then a $20 - 50 power supply and a $20 to $50 case? Don't forget the OS license.

CPU prices alone doesn't matter. For the first time in a very long time, we're seeing such minuscule performance gains to the average user that whenever someone in my family wants a new computer, I just search through refurbishers and reclaimers now and pick them up an old office machine.

For $380 I got an old Dell Optiplex with an Intel i7 3770, 16 GB of RAM, 500 GB hard drive, Windows 7 Pro, etc.

No matter how low AMD goes, there's a huge influx of machines being turned over for "new models" that no one really needs, but that businesses will buy for tax write-offs. The receptionist working on Outlook 2013 won't see a difference in an i7 3770 and an i7-6700, but you'll see a hell of a lot of different in an AMD Athlon X4 anything vs. an i7 anything.

Hell, i7-2600 machines can be had for as little as $225 and probably lower if you looked around hard.

 

[AtenRa]

The receptionist working on Outlook 2013 won't see a difference in an i7 3770 and an i7-6700, but you'll see a hell of a lot of different in an AMD Athlon X4 anything vs. an i7 anything.

You will see a difference in outlook 2013 ?? really ???

I will say an SSD will make much more difference than the CPU in those office workloads.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

LOL the $85 vs $45 budget CPU death match. AMD is sure fighting the good fight that no one wants to fight.

I don't know where you are shopping -- because my 860K cost $84 at Micro Center including an MSI motherboard. You can buy an A6-7400K with a motherboard for $59 right now.

http://www.microcenter.com/site/products/amd_bundles.aspx

Seriously, you can't beat those prices with a stick...... There are plenty of reasons to build an AMD rig when prices are that low. I just wish their store was closer -- I can only buy stuff from them when I visit family up North.

 

[Boze]

You will see a difference in outlook 2013 ?? really ???

I will say an SSD will make much more difference than the CPU in those office workloads.

So skip buying the AMD processor and spend the $50 on a decent SSD instead, got it.

My argument stands.

 

[Phynaz]

No. So far the only info we've seen is that Zen is supposed to be released 2016Q4. Anything else is just speculation.

Do you have some source saying otherwise?

Holy crap dude the statement from AMD is quoted in this very thread multiple times, I even linked to it. Obviously you aren't paying very close attention.

"Jim’s departure is not expected to impact our public product or technology roadmaps, and we remain on track for “Zen” sampling in 2016 with first full year of revenue in 2017."

That's from Drew Prairie.

Zen is now a 2017 product. But most of us knew that already, after all it's AMD.

The problem with Phynaz is that he considers his own FUD speculations as truth and a legitimate source, and cannot see how others can think otherwise. That is just ridiculous.

Umm, yeah, okay. I guess AMD's own press people are spreading FUD now. You really should pay better attention to things before you attempt to discredit others. Talk about ridiculous!

 

[Boze]

I don't know where you are shopping -- because my 860K cost $84 at Micro Center including an MSI motherboard. You can buy an A6-7400K with a motherboard for $59 right now.

http://www.microcenter.com/site/products/amd_bundles.aspx

Seriously, you can't beat those prices with a stick...... There are plenty of reasons to build an AMD rig when prices are that low. I just wish their store was closer -- I can only buy stuff from them when I visit family up North.

Again, I go right back to the argument I made early...

Who would bother with AMD right now when so many large corporations, universities, and other organizations are in the process of switching out hardware, oftentimes for reasons of tax writeoffs?

Today's WOOT! computer deal is an HP Z210 Workstation with a Xeon E3-1240 processor... 4 cores / 8 threads, 3.4 gHz each, 8 GB RAM, 2 TB hard drive, and Windows 7 Pro. And it is, of course, eligible for upgrade to Windows 10.

Asking price? $299.

Why would I pick up the motherboard & CPU for $84 when I can get not only far superior performance, but a complete system, for another $215? I still need RAM, hard disk, power supply, and motherboard.

Here - http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1402?vs=287

FX 8320E vs. i7 2600k

The E3-1240's closest analogue is the i7 2600. Its not even a comparison, its just a brutal stomping across the board. The X4 860 isn't even in the bench list, but frankly I'm glad it isn't, because the performance delta would be embarrassing.

There's no way to recommend any AMD processor to any one with 2-4 year old Intel-based complete machines being sold for $200 - $400 through refurbs and reclaimers.

 

[AtenRa]

Again, I go right back to the argument I made early...

Who would bother with AMD right now when so many large corporations, universities, and other organizations are in the process of switching out hardware, oftentimes for reasons of tax writeoffs?

Today's WOOT! computer deal is an HP Z210 Workstation with a Xeon E3-1240 processor... 4 cores / 8 threads, 3.4 gHz each, 8 GB RAM, 2 TB hard drive, and Windows 7 Pro. And it is, of course, eligible for upgrade to Windows 10.

Asking price? $299.

Why would I pick up the motherboard & CPU for $84 when I can get not only far superior performance, but a complete system, for another $215? I still need RAM, hard disk, power supply, and motherboard.

Here - http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1402?vs=287

FX 8320E vs. i7 2600k

The E3-1240's closest analogue is the i7 2600. Its not even a comparison, its just a brutal stomping across the board. The X4 860 isn't even in the bench list, but frankly I'm glad it isn't, because the performance delta would be embarrassing.

There's no way to recommend any AMD processor to any one with 2-4 year old Intel-based complete machines being sold for $200 - $400 through refurbs and reclaimers.

By the same logic who's going to bother to spend $80-120 for an Intel CPU ??

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

There's no way to recommend any AMD processor to any one with 2-4 year old Intel-based complete machines being sold for $200 - $400 through refurbs and reclaimers.

Likely the dumbest thing I've read on the internet this year.

Good luck staying employed as an IT manager buying refurbs. But thanks for the laugh.

The Intel fanboy-ism kills me though: Oh, yeah -- I can buy a 2-4 year off lease machine with capacitors, video cards, power supplies, motherboards and hard drives with thousands of hours of usage on them ready to die at a moments notice.... All of which are likely years outside of warranty...... and I'd rather put them into the workplace where reliability is absolutely essential......

.....and that is a better strategy than buying brand new components because clearly an AMD cpu can't run a word processor. /sarcasm off

LOL.... FYI, you wouldn't be employed very long as an IT manager if you actually did this.

EPIC FAIL.

Yeah..... because running Microsoft Excel and Word really needs an 8 thread CPU.

CATASTROPHIC EPIC FAIL.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

That's funny, because at the rate things are going, AMD is going to be physically shut down in 2016.

Why is that? The last time I looked at AMD's financials, they should be able to maintain operations until 2019. The a major debt issue matures that they need to pay for or it's lights out.

They have bad current product portfolio, negative shareholder equity, they are hemorrhaging money and talent badly, but their CFO is a wizard. I have serious respect for the guy, most companies at this state would go belly up, but somehow he keeps digging up money to shovel into AMD.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

They have bad current product portfolio, negative shareholder equity, they are hemorrhaging money and talent badly, but their CFO is a wizard. I have serious respect for the guy, most companies at this state would go belly up, but somehow he keeps digging up money to shovel into AMD.

Even that seems pretty harsh at least regarding GPU's. The Fury and Nano are pretty damn impressive cards IMO. AMD's drivers are pretty darn good if you are playing games on Windows. Linux.... yeah.... not so much, although they have improved a little.

 

[Boze]

Likely the dumbest thing I've read on the internet this year.

Good luck staying employed as an IT manager buying refurbs. But thanks for the laugh.

The Intel fanboy-ism kills me though: Oh, yeah -- I can buy a 2-4 year off lease machine with capacitors, video cards, power supplies, motherboards and hard drives with thousands of hours of usage on them ready to die at a moments notice.... All of which are likely years outside of warranty...... and I'd rather put them into the workplace where reliability is absolutely essential......

.....and that is a better strategy than buying brand new components because clearly an AMD cpu can't run a word processor. /sarcasm off

LOL.... FYI, you wouldn't be employed very long as an IT manager if you actually did this.

EPIC FAIL.

Yeah..... because running Microsoft Excel and Word really needs an 8 thread CPU.

CATASTROPHIC EPIC FAIL.

whenever someone in my family wants a new computer, I just search through refurbishers and reclaimers now and pick them up an old office machine

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

Good thing I didn't mention a damn thing about being an IT manager... in fact, one of these posts I clearly said I turned one of these into a gaming machine for my brother.

Nothing you say will change the fact that AMD performance is garbage compared to Intel. This isn't fanboyism, its clearly objective looking at AnandTech's Bench.

Intel has held the performance crown for a decade. They're going to continue to hold it. I can't wait till AMD goes bankrupt, gets sold off to the highest bidder, and they manage to take AMD's IP and make a decent produce for once.

 

[jpiniero]

Why is that? The last time I looked at AMD's financials, they should be able to maintain operations until 2019. The a major debt issue matures that they need to pay for or it's lights out.

As it is, AMD looks like it's going to lose $100M+ a quarter between now and Zen's theoretical release without massive, crippling job cuts. Which I expect they will do.

 

[DrMrLordX]

"Jim’s departure is not expected to impact our public product or technology roadmaps, and we remain on track for “Zen” sampling in 2016 with first full year of revenue in 2017."

All they're saying is they don't expect a full year's worth of revenue out of Zen until 2017, and that it samples in 2016. That isn't mutually exclusive from a Q3 or Q4 2016 launch, though other statements HAVE placed Zen in Q4 (instead of Q3).

 

[Roland00Address]

So AMD can't really drop cpu prices much more without new form factors that are not like a traditional computer due to the cpu and gpus is only part of the total cost of ownership. Intel has high enough performance to justify the marginal cost of going for the absolute budget processor (aka sub $50) to a budge processor ($50 to $100), a midrange processor ($100 to $200) or a true performance processor ($200 to $400)

So the only way for AMD to be compeititve is on price and that well is pretty much tapped out or increase in performance.

Ironically AMD needs a tech similar to Intel's recently announced 3d Xpoint. A SSD/Ram hybrid allows you to decrease the costs of that performance and better feed the cpus to reduce real world bottlenecks. If AMD were selling cpu, gpu, storage, and ram on chips they actually design instead of buying commodity chips such as patriot ram and rebranded them they could have a horizontal type business in such a way that most of the components in the computer are sourced via them and whoever they use as a foundry such as GF, Samsung, or TMSC.

Thus the only non AMD parts could be a psu, motherboard and hard drive and psus are commodity parts so its easy to create partnerships or just do not care who uses which psu. And hard drives are a dying business.

The problem is long ago lost access to the funds to pursue R&D such as this, as well as an in house foundry. Thus they can't be first to market and thus have to wait for industry like standards and industry like standards take years to develop and now you are fighting in a commodity market instead of a market where people throw money at you for your product is a multiplier effect on productive and is worth the small investment.

 

[Arachnotronic]

As it is, AMD looks like it's going to lose $100M+ a quarter between now and Zen's theoretical release without massive, crippling job cuts. Which I expect they will do.

$400 million burn from where the company is expected to land this quarter would put cash balance at $300 million.

AMD would not survive in this case.

The company needs to cut operating expenses or dramatically improve revenue, and quickly. Since the product portfolio will be in the dumps until at least Zen, I think you are correct that many more heads are about to roll.

I do not envy those currently employed at AMD.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

Good thing I didn't mention a damn thing about being an IT manager... in fact, one of these posts I clearly said I turned one of these into a gaming machine for my brother.

Nothing you say will change the fact that AMD performance is garbage compared to Intel. This isn't fanboyism, its clearly objective looking at AnandTech's Bench.

Intel has held the performance crown for a decade. They're going to continue to hold it. I can't wait till AMD goes bankrupt, gets sold off to the highest bidder, and they manage to take AMD's IP and make a decent produce for once.

Seriously to re-quote your trollish post:
"Who would bother with AMD right now when so many large corporations, universities, and other organizations are in the process of switching out hardware, oftentimes for reasons of tax writeoffs?"

GUESS WHO BUYS COMPUTERS FOR THESE RESPECTIVE THINGS????

Hint: IT MANAGERS

Get a clue, Chris. You don't even know what you said. It's just plain sad.

 

[Phynaz]

Somebody's cranky.