JLee's 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo build thread

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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
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Ya I have a set of energy suspension bushing set waiting to be isntalled when I get new coils.

Funny thing is everything that had visible or extreme wear was replaced. Everything left is just plain old. Car drives fine and smooth. Old means broke in performance right?

Pretty much. I have a complete set of bushings for my Miata's suspension because the old, but intact, rubber bushings can't take a real alignment as-is, they compress too much during adjustment.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
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Ah, forgot to mention I do have poly motor mount inserts as well. And an engine sitting on top of my drive wheels, which might help a little with grip.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
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Ah, forgot to mention I do have poly motor mount inserts as well. And an engine sitting on top of my drive wheels, which might help a little with grip.

Especially because that's all on the rear axle... yay weight transfer!
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
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I've been trying to chase an intermittent weird problem on boost...wideband pegs rich and it feels like the engine hit a wall. I couldn't really narrow it down to any specific condition - yesterday it happened in first gear, and then second pulled hard like it should. Well, a brief 3rd gear pull gave me a check engine light! I have never been so happy to see a CEL...

It stored Code 31: Air Flow Meter signal. So, my AFM may be toast! I'll either pick up a used one for ~$75 or wait for the MSPNP to be released (final base map tuning is apparently being done now, so it should be soon).
 

yottabit

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2008
1,472
470
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I've been trying to chase an intermittent weird problem on boost...wideband pegs rich and it feels like the engine hit a wall. I couldn't really narrow it down to any specific condition - yesterday it happened in first gear, and then second pulled hard like it should. Well, a brief 3rd gear pull gave me a check engine light! I have never been so happy to see a CEL...

It stored Code 31: Air Flow Meter signal. So, my AFM may be toast! I'll either pick up a used one for ~$75 or wait for the MSPNP to be released (final base map tuning is apparently being done now, so it should be soon).

Is AFM like a MAF? If so (and I haven't read the full thread or remember anything about your build) it could be a problem in the pressurized side of the intake- a leak in the tubing or a problem with your blowoff or recirc valve. Computer is injecting a certain amount of fuel based on the air it is getting and you are actually getting less due to a leak = rich condition

Just a thought!

EDIT: If you have a BOV/recirc valve make sure it's springing fully closed consistently after venting. I've had problems like this before (intermittent) with a sticky BOV and all I had to do was take it apart and clean it.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
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An AFM is basically a box with a flapper door inside. The more air flows through, the more the flap opens. It's pre-turbo so not under pressure. Archaic technology, heh. I have no BOV/BPV.
 

yottabit

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2008
1,472
470
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Sounds like the "Vain Air Meters" on the old turbo fords

Regardless- anytime you are diagnosing a rich condition on a metered air car what I'm talking about still could be a possibility. If a certain amount of air is metered and then some leaks out before getting to the engine you end up rich. But if your code is for the AFM signal then I'm guessing that's most likely the culrpit
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
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I have very few couplers in my post-turbo intake system- I have one pipe from the turbo to intercooler, one from the intercooler to the throttle body, and no BPV/BOV. Given that the issue is intermittent (i.e. bog down in first gear, shift to second, pulls hard peaking at 23psi), I don't think it's a boost leak. This is the first time the CEL has come on, so hopefully it's right!
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
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I have not...might do it on my days off this week. The car will stumble or stall and I'll get a CEL if I wiggle the AFM plug/harness, so I'm pretty sure it's the culprit. I should test it anyway, though- thanks for the page reference!
 

FuzzyDunlop

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2008
3,260
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I have not...might do it on my days off this week. The car will stumble or stall and I'll get a CEL if I wiggle the AFM plug/harness, so I'm pretty sure it's the culprit. I should test it anyway, though- thanks for the page reference!

oooo. thats no good. Can you tape it down so that it doesnt wiggle then go for a drive and see if the problem persists?

Hopefully you dont have a broken prong or something. yeesh.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
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oooo. thats no good. Can you tape it down so that it doesnt wiggle then go for a drive and see if the problem persists?

Hopefully you dont have a broken prong or something. yeesh.

It doesn't do that in normal driving - it'll make a noticeable difference in how the car runs, and immediately throw a CEL.

My AFM has been giving me issues for a while...shortly before the car was dyno tuned, it began running horribly rich. ATS had to lean out the tune and the AFM to get it running properly - and the tune had been fine before then.

I'm not too heartbroken, though - just impatient for the PNP Megasquirt.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
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In short, off boost compressor surge isn't bad for the turbo, it's on boost surge that breaks stuff. When I'm off my phone I'll go dig up some more information. Throttle response between shifts is SO much better...actually chirped second the other day, which doesn't usually happen.
 

FuzzyDunlop

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2008
3,260
12
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What I learned before I delete mine:

Its the 'on throttle' compressor surge that causes damage (when the throttle body plate is still wide open). This usually happens when someone has too big of a turbo.
Off throttle compressor surge can do no damage to the engine because the throttle plate is closed.
EDIT:
l0ch0w: how much force do you honestly think 40psi of air in a 3 or 4 liter space has on an object that generates as much torque as your crankshaft spinning at 8000 RPM

The ST185 celicas had the same engine but without a blow off valve. So why couldnt an MR2?
The only reason that I could find for it being there was to make the engine noise less Harsh.

makes sense to me. I deleted it and actaully enjoy how it sounds, and yes, acceleration is improved due to throttle repsonse between gears.
 
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manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
What I learned before I delete mine:

Its the 'on throttle' compressor surge that causes damage (when the throttle body plate is still wide open). This usually happens when someone has too big of a turbo.
Off throttle compressor surge can do no damage to the engine because the throttle plate is closed.
EDIT:

The ST185 celicas had the same engine but without a blow off valve. So why couldnt an MR2?
The only reason that I could find for it being there was to make the engine noise less Harsh.

makes sense to me. I deleted it and actaully enjoy how it sounds, and yes, acceleration is improved due to throttle repsonse between gears.

Cool stuff!!

Wish I wanst so busy. Havent touched my own cars in two weeks. My wife told me if I stay late any more this month shes gonna castrate me...

and its only the 2nd...
 

FuzzyDunlop

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2008
3,260
12
81
ooh, an even more in depth post from ScarecrowX at mr2oc - hes smart

The thing to remember about the load under off-throttle conditions is that as soon as the throttle closes, half of the load on the thrust bearing disappears. The only load left is an oscillating half-strength load as the compressor grips and slips the air through it. The thrust bearing always sees more loat normal full boost than it does during OT surge.
And since there are people who STILL believe it, THE TURBO DOES NOT SPIN BACKWARDS, EVER! With the throttle closed, if it ever spun backward, it would have to continue spinning backwards because ther wouldn't be any force to drive it forward again. Watch a video of a compressor surging and you'll see that absolutely does not happen. Anyone whostill believes it does should consider retaking high school physics.

Heres a video with great sound to give you an idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sm2flQESgI

One guy pointed out that the only concern he has is that this air may push against the flap inside the AFM causing some unexpected problems, but nobody has confirmed this.
 
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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
One guy pointed out that the only concern he has is that this air may push against the flap inside the AFM causing some unexpected problems, but nobody has confirmed this.

Well, chance that JLee deleted his BOV and a few weeks later killed his AFM? I dunno.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
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Doubt it, considering eight months ago my AFM had to be adjusted just to get the car running properly. That's not supposed to happen, and I was having this issue before the BPV delete.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,044
556
126
So jlee, just wondering but if this is so great would you have done it to your Forester?
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
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So jlee, just wondering but if this is so great would you have done it to your Forester?

Possibly - the Forester has a bigger engine and smaller turbo, so it likely wouldn't make as much of a difference.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Possibly - the Forester has a bigger engine and smaller turbo, so it likely wouldn't make as much of a difference.

I think it is a little bit abusive to all of the flexible couplings in your intake too.

I bet with the FXT there's the option for an adjustable pressure BOV/BPV. I got a Forge BPV for my MS3 and put a heavier spring in it, so it vents intake pressures at a higher level than the stock one did, thus improving response between shifts. (deleted because of stupid)
 
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