Job Interview/Recruitment Process: Update - Decision Made

[ReggieDunlap]

I want to avoid a wall of text here so Ill try to keep the points succinct. I'd like opinions on how you perceive this process is progressing.

Found job posting on Linked In. I live in EU (Italy), job is in Italy, company is UK company.
Contacted a few weeks after applying thru the company website. Not sure of how long.

March 16 (Thursday) have Skype Interview. Goes well. I ask when I will hear about next step if Im selected. Am told, the person has other interviews that day, but the company would like position filled ASAP and so I should hear positively or negatively in couple of days. Next day I send a thank you email for the interview.

March 21: I heard nothing so sent a follow-up email asking my status. No replies.

April 6 I get an email from a diff Recruiter from same company asking for 2nd interview on days I am not avail. I reply with alternate dates/times for 2nd interview.

April 10 I get reply from original interviewer about 2nd interview. I explain I answered but had no other contact and was told I should hear soon. Later same day get confirm about wrking out alt interview date.

Apr 12: I make adjustments to my schedule to have 2nd interview on the original requested day. Goes very well (Head of IT Infrastructure and Head of IT Service Desk). Next day I send thank you to both and receive a reply from one.

Apr 18 I get a phone call asking for a 3rd interview the next day. I cant do this and make other arrangements to have the interview Apr 24 with the Head of IT. I ask and am told to this point I am the only candidate.

Apr 24 Goes very well. Am told it's not really an interview, only that he wanted to meet and speak with me as he trusts his staff's choice for the position. He asks if HR has spoken about financials yet and I explain that I have had no further contact from HR since the initial interview setup. I confirm that basically I am just waiting for a formal offer.

Apr 25 finally speak with HR Manager who contacted me back in March. She says somethings that slightly contradict the Head of IT (I am still in the interview process, the call the 24th was in fact still an interview, I will need to speak to the Dir of Dev on site - Head of IT said this would be just an informal introduction type of conversation). Am finally asked my salary requirements, which I don't answer directly. HR Mgr tells verbally the salary per year and answers my questions about the contract. We confirm a mtg with the dev director for the 26th and Im told basically its a matter of drafting a written formal offer. The mtg email confirmation ends with her replying (I will follow up with you after).

Apr 26 Meet with Dir of Dev in the company local Italian office. Again, very good talk and all. Very positive and again I am told it isn't really an interview.

FYI Apr 25 was a bank holiday in Italy. May 1 was a bank holiday in Italy and England. It's been basically 4 working days since the 24th. The HR Mgr verbally told me an offer. Yet I still have had no further contact.

AM I overthinking this? To me it seems the Italian part of the operation is really communicating all that well with the UK/IT Mgrs about the process and urgency of the selection.

If there are questions Ill give more details if possible (without naming names etc).

Thanks in advance for any and all replies.


EDIT: Acknowledging total failure at avoiding the wall of text. sorry

 

[purbeast0]

Wow that is a really long interview process. The fact that stuff took so long in the beginning, I don't see why there would be anything to worry about it taking long at the end part of the process. The whole slow process in general could be a red flag though, but it could also be nothing.

 

[cbrunny]

Sounds public sector. Good job security. Stick it out.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I was thinking, in terms if giving them a nudge to help move things along, of sending an email to the Head of IT (the 3rd interview) with the HR Mgr in CC, this coming Friday, saying basically,

".....I understand the interviews went well, and the feedback per the HR Mgr has been positive, however it has been a week since she wrote she would follow up with me after the mtg on the 26th and I have not had any further contact. I have since been contacted about another opportunity, but I do not want to take the interview appointment if the position with you is still open. Can you please get back to me with some feedback about the status of your pending offer?....."

To me, it would be fair to send something like this on Friday afternoon (May 5; a full 7 working days since the mtg with the Dev Dir in Italy, and 10 days since the 3rd interview with the Head of IT). Or does that come across as too much like "drawing a line in the sand"?

Thanks

 

[Scarpozzi]

Sounds like the working side of the company is disconnected from HR. That can be typical if they aren't in the same city or site. They may be conducting business through a remote HR system to fill in the blanks on how the interviews go, etc...

My wife works for a larger company that has a separate HR office across town. Sometimes it takes a day or two to get a response out of them via Email because of how lazy...**cough**...I mean, busy they are. Also remember that projects, conferences, key staff being out of the office for any reason can delay the process unless they just buckle down to get someone hired. Be patient.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

OK. I understand all that, but I guess my question is how LONG should I remain patient? I honestly don't believe I was misreading anything about the process, and the third interview with the Head Of IT telling me I am their choice and answering my question: "So basically I am just waiting for a formal offer?" with a reply "Yes, exactly. I'll get with XXXXXX and make sure she gets in touch with you."

The HR person basically said their intention was to progress towards a formal offer. Her words were basically (am I am paraphrasing here) "Ideally, we'd like to get you something formal in writing so that we could possibly have a decision by the end of next week.." (meaning Fri May 5).

Tomorrow is Fri May 5; it has been over a week since the meeting with the Dir of Development here in Milan, and she wrote me in the meeting confirmation email "I will follow up with you after." and I have yet to receive any further contact.

Yes, Monday May 1 was a bank holiday for both Italy and England, but if she verbally gave me the general structure of an offer over the phone on Tues April 25, how long would she truly need to draft an offer letter and send it to me?

Thanks again for any and all replies.

 

[purbeast0]

I would just send them an email saying you are checking in. I've done that multiple times and it's never been a problem. I signed a contingent offer 3 weeks ago and sent them one Tuesday saying I'm just checking in, heard back yesterday that it was great timing because a new slot opened up for me.

A few months back I applied for a remote job and it's a small company and I hadn't heard back after 2 weeks of the technical interview going very well. It was after a week vacation I told them about as well in the interview, so I figured while on vacation I would hear from them but didnt. So I just shot them a "just checking in" email. A few days later they replied back saying sorry they are just taking longer than expected on the whole process and they would let me know in a week, 2 max. Unfortunately they ended up NOT selecting me after all of the time for the sole reason they went with a local person instead.

So if it were me, I'd just shoot them an email basically saying "hey what's up, I'm still here wondering what is going on" but obviously in a professional and courteous way.

 

[Tweak155]

If they said by Friday, I would give them until Monday and send a follow up then. I've had a company take 6 weeks from start to finish before myself... I ended up declining (even though the offer was amazing) and about 2-3 years later they asked me to interview again. I got to skip a portion of the process and it still took almost 5 weeks if I remember correctly to get another offer.

In other words, some companies can just be slow. Wait til Monday if they made a promise for this Friday.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Just hang in there. You didn't say if you're Italian versus just living in Italy. The reason I bring this up is because Italy and their businesses run or, should I say walk, at a different pace. It doesn't matter who actually owns the company.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I interviewed for 2 jobs back in 2009. I ended up doing an interview and got word 2-3 weeks later that I had the job. The day after I received that offer and accepted it, I received a call from the second job asking me for a second interview. The second job had fewer benefits and I didn't know the pay, so I didn't put them up against each other. I just told the second job they took too long and moved on.

The second job was corporate and they had multiple physical locations in the same city. It took them forever to process stuff that should be quick....but scheduling seemed to be a problem for them in these groups because of the high workload they had. Just keep in mind that the hiring managers may be waiting on external stuff before they can move along with the process.

 

[BD231]

Damn ..... wtf kinna jobs take half a year or more to get into ? I've never seen that

 

[purbeast0]

I interviewed for 2 jobs back in 2009. I ended up doing an interview and got word 2-3 weeks later that I had the job. The day after I received that offer and accepted it, I received a call from the second job asking me for a second interview. The second job had fewer benefits and I didn't know the pay, so I didn't put them up against each other. I just told the second job they took too long and moved on.

The second job was corporate and they had multiple physical locations in the same city. It took them forever to process stuff that should be quick....but scheduling seemed to be a problem for them in these groups because of the high workload they had. Just keep in mind that the hiring managers may be waiting on external stuff before they can move along with the process.

It can also be a sign of a piss poor ran company and you could dodge a bullet if they are taking so long to do stuff.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Damn ..... wtf kinna jobs take half a year or more to get into ? I've never seen that

That's common at universities.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

They didnt say Friday. The mtg with the Dir of Dev was setup for Apr 26 and the statement in the email was "I will follow up with you after." No specific date as to when I would hear back was ever stated. I just figured if the HR Manager was willing to give a verbal breakdown of the offer and other details, she would have initiated the preliminary paperwork.

Just hang in there. You didn't say if you're Italian versus just living in Italy. The reason I bring this up is because Italy and their businesses run or, should I say walk, at a different pace. It doesn't matter who actually owns the company.

No I'm not Italian, but I've been living here since 2007 so I understand completely the "Pace" at which some entities move with regards to business. It was in fact, a topic that came up in the third interview with the head of IT as well as he "informal meeting" with the Dir of Dev on site here in Milan.

The second job was corporate and they had multiple physical locations in the same city. It took them forever to process stuff that should be quick....but scheduling seemed to be a problem for them in these groups because of the high workload they had. Just keep in mind that the hiring managers may be waiting on external stuff before they can move along with the process.

This may be close to, or very much on point with the circumstances. This is a UK company, just now opening a presence in Italy. The HR Manager I have been dealing with is Italian, but she is based in the UK. I suspect she and the UK staff have a different view on priority regarding the position. It also may very well be, that while IT has decided and informed HR of the choice, HR is still working the process. I just get anxious over the lack of clarity from the HR side with regards to contact. "I will follow up with you after." is too open ended. I interpreted this to mean by the Friday after the Wed mtg. Obviously not the case. The main thing about it it the HR Mgr said ideally, she would like to get me a formal offer in writing so that I could come back with a decision "..by the end of next week..." which is today (Fri May 5).

I'll be writing to the HR Mgr later this afternoon with the Head of IT in CC if I've not received any contact by 1PM Italian Time (12PM UK). This would be over a week since the Dir of Dev Milan Mtg. The process just has me anxious as it's a fantastic opportunity; I'd like to counter based on the initial number the HR person told me over the phone, and I am obligated contractually to give 30 days calendar notice to my current employer. If I can't get that notice done before the 15th of May, the 30 days don't count until the 1rst of June (this is national Bargained Contract requirement in Italy).

Again, thanks for all the input. I'd like to hear more thoughts if anyone is inclined.

 

[cbrunny]

I am obligated contractually to give 30 days calendar notice to my current employer.

Not sure what the laws are like where you live but in Canada I'm fairly certain this isn't a thing. Even if it is in a contract, that doesn't actually matter at all. No one can force you to work anywhere. 2 weeks notice is a myth (nice to do, of course, but not a legal requirement). Just a thought. Might be worth looking into. Also you might give your notice and they might send you packing immediately. As always, YMMV.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Wow that is a really long interview process. The fact that stuff took so long in the beginning, I don't see why there would be anything to worry about it taking long at the end part of the process. The whole slow process in general could be a red flag though, but it could also be nothing.

I'll try to avoid bringing P&N into OT. Some places in Europe its very costly/difficult to get rid of an employee so they spend much more time vetting and making sure the candidate is a good fit.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

So, I sent an email to the HR mgr on Friday afternoon (about 1PM UK Time) with the Head of IT in CC. Basically just a "checking in" email asking what the status of the progress is. Unfortunately, still no reply, but I've got no other choice to just wait. I haven't received any bounce back messages from Gmail indicating my emails aren't getting delivered.

It's a bit discouraging though. I mean, I can understand if she is busy. This is a big company, opening a new site, but at least a reply acknowledging you received my message and will contact me when you can. As it is - 1. It doesn't make for a good impression of the company and her organizational skills; 2. It makes me wonder if somehow everything is falling through on the whole opportunity. I'm beginning to wonder if I've somehow gone from being the only candidate to loosing out completely.

 

[purbeast0]

No need to dwell on it at this point. In the end it's really out of your control. I know it's easier said than done but that is the reality of it.

I had the final 2/3 of this technical interview last night and I did not do very good on the last part which was all CSS stuff. I mean I did okay, but it was just using CSS techniques that I don't do regularly so it basically made me look like I had no clue what I was doing with styling on some aspects of it. And it sucked to do so just alright on it after I completely knocked the other 2 parts out of the park. I kept thinking about it all night how I hope I didn't blow an opportunity.

And in the end at this point it's completely out of my control what happens. I'm trying to not dwell on it myself but I know how it can be tough too.

 

[Zargon]

sounds not that abnormal.

The job I have now, I interview the first week of June, the second week of July, and the first week of August. I received the offer the third week of August and started at the end of the second week of September

I interviewed for another position last year, with a different department of the same University. Paperwork was done in March. Interview in June and July, a reply to a check-in email in the end of august let me know they were moving forward to *another* round of interviews and I wasn't selected for those. The person they hired started in October.

glacial.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. And yes, I recognize it does not good to dwell on it and it's all completely out of my control, it's just coming from the US to the EU job market, it has been "eye opening" how some things in the US you figure would be a given (like at least a reply to an email asking for status) over here don't follow that same idea.

 

[Murloc]

Not sure what the laws are like where you live but in Canada I'm fairly certain this isn't a thing. Even if it is in a contract, that doesn't actually matter at all. No one can force you to work anywhere. 2 weeks notice is a myth (nice to do, of course, but not a legal requirement). Just a thought. Might be worth looking into. Also you might give your notice and they might send you packing immediately. As always, YMMV.

in Europe there are clear legal obligations with bidirectional (i.e. also if you get laid off) notice periods defined by law, which usually depend on the length of employement.

The employer can send you packing if they think the risk of you stealing data is more important than the benefit of having you train whoever stays there, but they still gotta pay your wage during the notice period.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

Yes, as far as my current employer, I am bound by a nationally negotiated labor contract. So my notice time is 30 calendar days. If given between the 1rst and 15th of a month it counts when given. If given after the 15th of the month, the 30 days start from the 1rst of the next month.

Last week, Friday May 5, I sent a "checking in" type email to the HR person with the Head of IT in CC- asking for an update of the status of the process since she told me she would follow up with me after the mtg on Apr 26.. I have had no reply at all. Is it fair to try calling this woman, even if it is just to be sure she actually received my email? (I did not receive a bounce back message, but it may have been filtered some other way). I am trying to decide if I should try to call her this afternoon (essentially 5 working days with no reply to my email) or wait until next week.

 

[Tweak155]

Yes, as far as my current employer, I am bound by a nationally negotiated labor contract. So my notice time is 30 calendar days. If given between the 1rst and 15th of a month it counts when given. If given after the 15th of the month, the 30 days start from the 1rst of the next month.

Last week, Friday May 5, I sent a "checking in" type email to the HR person with the Head of IT in CC- asking for an update of the status of the process since she told me she would follow up with me after the mtg on Apr 26.. I have had no reply at all. Is it fair to try calling this woman, even if it is just to be sure she actually received my email? (I did not receive a bounce back message, but it may have been filtered some other way). I am trying to decide if I should try to call her this afternoon (essentially 5 working days with no reply to my email) or wait until next week.

I would reach out how ever you feel comfortable with at this point, they missed their promise date from your last actual exchange of communication.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes, as far as my current employer, I am bound by a nationally negotiated labor contract. So my notice time is 30 calendar days. If given between the 1rst and 15th of a month it counts when given. If given after the 15th of the month, the 30 days start from the 1rst of the next month.

Last week, Friday May 5, I sent a "checking in" type email to the HR person with the Head of IT in CC- asking for an update of the status of the process since she told me she would follow up with me after the mtg on Apr 26.. I have had no reply at all. Is it fair to try calling this woman, even if it is just to be sure she actually received my email? (I did not receive a bounce back message, but it may have been filtered some other way). I am trying to decide if I should try to call her this afternoon (essentially 5 working days with no reply to my email) or wait until next week.

Never be afraid to just call someone. Some people are piss-poor at managing their email time. I've had professional individuals in consequential positions at well established government and private organizations tell me directly 'yes, i came in today from vacation/weekend and I had too many emails to read so I just deleted them, sorry, what did you need?'.

For what it's worth, I've had worse experiences than yours. After a year of job searching/applying/etc I finally landed a great one, but I still get the occasional email/call from some organization I applied to 12+ months ago wanting to 'set up an interview for the position you applied to'. Frankly 3 weeks from application to offer letter is probably an outlier.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

Well I called Friday morning and was able to reach the HR person's extension directly. Unfortunately, it went straight into VM. I left a message and am still waiting for a reply. I am trying to stay positive and not think too deeply into things, however, if I don't receive any contact by EOD tomorrow (Wed), I'll try calling the Head of IT guy (he was my "last interview" who confirmed I was in the position of waiting for a formal offer) to see if I can reach him and find out my status (am I getting an offer or not).

I'll keep posting until I find out what's going on. In case anyone is actually curious.