Job offer

[mitmot]

I recently received a job offer and had some questions regarding negotiating benefits. Now when I spoke to HR over the phone about vacation time, they informed me it would be 2 weeks. However, the offer letter itself dictates that vacation and sick time will be "in accordance with company policy." Should I ask for the 2 weeks vacation time in writing? I am not sure what the correct procedure is here.

Bonus also seems to be a fuzzy topic on the offer letter. Over the phone, they told me I would be eligible for a potential bonus up to 10% of my salary. Once again, the offer letter says it is up to the discretion of the company.

Should I ask for the vacation and bonus in writing, or am I just being paranoid here? TIA.

 

[MaxFusion16]

paranoid

 

[ultimatebob]

Is this your first job out of college? Because if you have more than 3 years work experience, you should be trying to negotiate 3 or more weeks of vacation.

Oh, and if the bonus is "up to" 10%, expect only a 5% bonus even if you do good work your first year. Only the top 1% will get the maximum bonus.

 

[ioni]

I'd expect vacation to be in writing on the offer letter. A bonus... not so much. You can say you'd like to accept but the letter is unclear in what you'd be accepting. Then ask for a clearer one.

 

[Bignate603]

Is this your first job out of college? Because if you have more than 3 years work experience, you should be trying to negotiate 3 or more weeks of vacation.

Oh, and if the bonus is "up to" 10%, expect only a 5% bonus even if you do good work your first year. Only the top 1% will get the maximum bonus.

Depending on the company and their policies it may be easier for them to give him more money than to give him more vacation. At my company you get 2 weeks when you start any salaried position (and some hourly too). You get your third week after 5 years at the company (previous experience doesn't count), with the only exception being if you are being hired into a higher pay band. Those higher pay bands start >$100k. That being said though, we have something like 14 paid holidays, including all the time between Christmas and New Years. With all of the holidays off that 2 weeks vacation can go much farther.

Smaller companies that don't have as well established policies have a huge amount more freedom to give more vacation. The big ones with firm vacation policies often can't do anything.

 

[JS80]

If they really want you, I would negotiate the bonus % in writing in the offer letter.

 

[AreaCode707]

Ask them to put the target bonus percentage in the offer letter; that is standard and appropriate. They will leave in the verbiage that your actual bonus payout is at their discretion.

Vacation is rarely negotiable if the company is mid-size or larger, and they usually have to put in "according to policy" to cover their butts. They may change vacation to PTO, may change rollover rules, whatever. You honestly won't be able to budge them on this one.

 

[Bignate603]

If they really want you, I would negotiate the bonus % in writing in the offer letter.

I've never seen a company negotiate a bonus %. Typically the possible range is the same for everyone at the same level, and the actual percentage they receive is dependent on performance over a period of time.

 

[AreaCode707]

I've never seen a company negotiate a bonus %. Typically the possible range is the same for everyone at the same level, and the actual percentage they receive is dependent on performance over a period of time.

Agreed.

I implement applicant tracking systems for a living. I rarely put together a system where target bonus percentage is not tied to the job code.

 

[mitmot]

Ok so basically I should just ask them to put the target bonus in writing and ignore the vacation time?

 

[Bignate603]

Ok so basically I should just ask them to put the target bonus in writing and ignore the vacation time?

If they're a big company, the vacation time is pretty much going to be set so just ask them about their vacation policy. Things that make a difference are which holidays they give you off and what it takes to get to that 3rd week of vacation.

You can also ask about the bonus, if its something that is the same for all employees at your level there's not much point in asking for it in writing.

One thing that I'd ask about is their health insurance options. You'll want to know how much it will cost each month and things like deductibles and copays.

 

[alkemyst]

Offer letter is much abbreviated from the contract you will sign.

"in accordance" has to do with in many company's today your sick and vacation time come out of one PTO pool. This PTO pool is earned by time worked and many companies also have causes that you cannot borrow vacation time and any sick time taken prior to earned will be non-paid time.

There is a lot more to vacation time than just the days/hours you get.

As far as bonus, too many companies dangle these today and no one is getting them. Your best bet on the bonus is to ask other workers their if the 10% bonus is realistic. They can't give you details more than that, but they can state whether it's honored.

 

[AreaCode707]

Ok so basically I should just ask them to put the target bonus in writing and ignore the vacation time?

I don't think you need to but you can if it will make you feel better about it. In the current economy, bonuses rarely pay out in full, as Alky notes. You'll probably get beween 50-80% of your target bonus in general, more or less depending on how the company performs and how you do.

 

[ultimatebob]

Depending on the company and their policies it may be easier for them to give him more money than to give him more vacation. At my company you get 2 weeks when you start any salaried position (and some hourly too). You get your third week after 5 years at the company (previous experience doesn't count), with the only exception being if you are being hired into a higher pay band. Those higher pay bands start >$100k. That being said though, we have something like 14 paid holidays, including all the time between Christmas and New Years. With all of the holidays off that 2 weeks vacation can go much farther.

Smaller companies that don't have as well established policies have a huge amount more freedom to give more vacation. The big ones with firm vacation policies often can't do anything.

The secret is to get the company to factor in your past job experience when calculating your vacation time. So, if you had 3 years experience and had 3 weeks vacation at your last job, it's more than fair to ask for that at your new job.

That said, if you're a college hire or have been unemployed for more than six months, you're not really in a position to negotiate this. You might be better off just taking what they offer.

 

[AreaCode707]

The secret is to get the company to factor in your past job experience when calculating your vacation time. So, if you had 3 years experience and had 3 weeks vacation at your last job, it's more than fair to ask for that at your new job.

That said, if you're a college hire or have been unemployed for more than six months, you're not really in a position to negotiate this. You might be better off just taking what they offer.

Frequently vacation banks are monitored automatically by Peoplesoft, SAP or another HRIS and most large companies do not allow for negotiated vacation for that reason. Depending on the company, they can often make any other type of exception besides vacation (but always talk to your boss about their informal approach to time off; I have rarely had a boss that, if I was doing a good job, wouldn't let me play hooky a few days.)