Jobless Count Skips Millions

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CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers.
You ever here of sampling? They might not be real enough for you but they're real enough for me. The bureau of labor statistics *does* put out numbers every quarter and even every month. But numbers are kinda uninteresting to most people so they don't make as big an impact as you seem to expect.

Yes I have heard of "sampling" I've scoured bls for more hours than I care to admit. However - like people have said here - it doesn't give a concrete number to things. It's all variables and surveys and adjustments - very little "hard numbers". That's why I said-"It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME". I'm not saying that we should just up and abandon that system but I recognize it for it's flaws. It does however give an idea of how things are doing since the methodology is rarely changed so we can compare numbers and such...to a certain extent.

I however would prefer to see the "real" numbers as Luny and others do - we can make "adjustments" for this and that after we get some base figures.

CkG
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
In the event you are betting the farm on the accuracy of the numbers presented consider this.. from the BLS.. I've posted it before but, it is on the BLS site under unemployment and explanatory notes..

"...For example, the confidence interval for the monthly change in total
employment from the household survey is on the order of plus or minus
290,000. Suppose the estimate of total employment increases by 100,000
from one month to the next. The 90-percent confidence interval on the
monthly change would range from -190,000 to 390,000 (100,000 +/- 290,000).
These figures do not mean that the sample results are off by these
magnitudes, but rather that there is about a 90-percent chance that the
"true" over-the-month change lies within this interval. Since this range
includes values of less than zero, we could not say with confidence that
employment had, in fact, increased. If, however, the reported employment
rise was half a million, then all of the values within the 90-percent
confidence interval would be greater than zero. In this case, it is likely
(at least a 90-percent chance) that an employment rise had, in fact,
occurred. At an unemployment rate of around 4 percent, the 90-percent con-
fidence interval for the monthly change in unemployment is about +/- 270,000..."
down toward the bottom
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: KenGr
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: jjsole
I saw a show on pbs that pegged the actual number of people without work at around 17%, up from the 14-15% highs in the early eighties.

It includes the disenfranchised and those who have given up finding jobs etc. The current 6% figure is a very myopic perspective.

I'll see if I can find the study.

That's what's always such a joke when the right throws up "communist" european numbers. No sh1t fella they count everyone looking, those on welfare even. We only count those activly recieving unemployment benefits usually only lasting weeks.

Just in case anyone is being mislead, this post was completely incorrect. The US unemployment numbers are not based on those receiving unemployment. It is based on a statistical household survey to identify all those people who are actively looking for work in the last month. It does not attempt to count "underemployed people" and it does not count students and those otherwise unavailable for full time work. It is as comparable to the European unemployment numbers as is possible considering different people and different governments are doing the counting.

If you need more info, here is the Bureau of Labor Statistics explanation of the basis for the unemployment data:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.tn.htm

Note in particular the difference between the Household Survey which is widely reported as THE unemployment rate and the Establishment Survey.

hmmm.

"The sample is drawn from a sampling frame of unemployment insurance tax accounts."-they only count those revcieving unemployment benefits.


If you only "survey" those "This information is collected from payroll records by BLS in cooperation with State agencies" By definition your only calling those who've had jobs.

I know what this site says. But if you look at their sampling methodolgy it can only be defined as those either who had work or are on unemployment.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: LunarRay
In the event you are betting the farm on the accuracy of the numbers presented consider this.. from the BLS.. I've posted it before but, it is on the BLS site under unemployment and explanatory notes..

"...For example, the confidence interval for the monthly change in total
employment from the household survey is on the order of plus or minus
290,000. Suppose the estimate of total employment increases by 100,000
from one month to the next. The 90-percent confidence interval on the
monthly change would range from -190,000 to 390,000 (100,000 +/- 290,000).
These figures do not mean that the sample results are off by these
magnitudes, but rather that there is about a 90-percent chance that the
"true" over-the-month change lies within this interval. Since this range
includes values of less than zero, we could not say with confidence that
employment had, in fact, increased. If, however, the reported employment
rise was half a million, then all of the values within the 90-percent
confidence interval would be greater than zero. In this case, it is likely
(at least a 90-percent chance) that an employment rise had, in fact,
occurred. At an unemployment rate of around 4 percent, the 90-percent con-
fidence interval for the monthly change in unemployment is about +/- 270,000..."
down toward the bottom

The biggest sampling error (results that differ from sample to sample) is not sampling those w/o phones which I'd think would be almost ALL unemployed. 90% confidence level!! Geez that's horrendous. No wonder their monthly unemployment reports completely and consistently contradicts the other (payroll survey vs household survey).


Another:
"If you did any work for pay or profit in their own business, even as much as one hour of work during the survey reference," that counts as a job, says BLS economist Karen Kosanovich.
:Q (she's talking about household survey)
Text
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I can't believe people think this is "news". It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME. OMG - THERE WERE UNDEREMPLOYED PEOPLE DURING THE "BOOMING 90s"? NO WAY!!!
(there is a new thread title for you dave )

No dave - none of this will drive me insane. I'm well aware of underemployment, unemployment, and the rest - PLUS how they are calculated and reported. It seems though that some people have been trying to make things seem worse than they really are.

Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean. But that really isn't realistic unless we were all numbered(oh wait SS# ) and forced to report our situation quarterly. If that were the case we would see who is PT, FT, "underemployed"(in their mind), actively looking, not looking, retired, able to work, etc. However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers. Sure you can get a "base" number using luny's numbers but as some here have pointed out - those numbers don't give an accurate picture of the job situation due to xxx.

But then again - I hope I am never forced to report my employment situation via the way I described above Imaging the repercussions of such a monthly/quarterly report - yikes.

Oh, btw - the "help wanted" index is up

CkG

"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree"

Wow, a big day, a slight waffling by the mighty CAD in the Ivory Tower.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I can't believe people think this is "news". It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME. OMG - THERE WERE UNDEREMPLOYED PEOPLE DURING THE "BOOMING 90s"? NO WAY!!!
(there is a new thread title for you dave )

No dave - none of this will drive me insane. I'm well aware of underemployment, unemployment, and the rest - PLUS how they are calculated and reported. It seems though that some people have been trying to make things seem worse than they really are.

Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean. But that really isn't realistic unless we were all numbered(oh wait SS# ) and forced to report our situation quarterly. If that were the case we would see who is PT, FT, "underemployed"(in their mind), actively looking, not looking, retired, able to work, etc. However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers. Sure you can get a "base" number using luny's numbers but as some here have pointed out - those numbers don't give an accurate picture of the job situation due to xxx.

But then again - I hope I am never forced to report my employment situation via the way I described above Imaging the repercussions of such a monthly/quarterly report - yikes.

Oh, btw - the "help wanted" index is up

CkG

"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree"

Wow, a big day, a slight waffling by the mighty CAD in the Ivory Tower.

Do you have a clue as to what I was talking about, or are you purposely trying to be obtuse?
"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement." is the FULL sentence. Followed by - "There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean."

Wow dave, if expressing some agreement with another person is "waffling" then people do it all the time. Ofcourse you are full of it since I don't believe I have commented on this exact idea here. Thanks for trying dave.

CkG
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I can't believe people think this is "news". It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME. OMG - THERE WERE UNDEREMPLOYED PEOPLE DURING THE "BOOMING 90s"? NO WAY!!!
(there is a new thread title for you dave )

No dave - none of this will drive me insane. I'm well aware of underemployment, unemployment, and the rest - PLUS how they are calculated and reported. It seems though that some people have been trying to make things seem worse than they really are.

Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean. But that really isn't realistic unless we were all numbered(oh wait SS# ) and forced to report our situation quarterly. If that were the case we would see who is PT, FT, "underemployed"(in their mind), actively looking, not looking, retired, able to work, etc. However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers. Sure you can get a "base" number using luny's numbers but as some here have pointed out - those numbers don't give an accurate picture of the job situation due to xxx.

But then again - I hope I am never forced to report my employment situation via the way I described above Imaging the repercussions of such a monthly/quarterly report - yikes.

Oh, btw - the "help wanted" index is up

CkG

"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree"

Wow, a big day, a slight waffling by the mighty CAD in the Ivory Tower.

Do you have a clue as to what I was talking about, or are you purposely trying to be obtuse?
"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement." is the FULL sentence. Followed by - "There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean."

Wow dave, if expressing some agreement with another person is "waffling" then people do it all the time. Ofcourse you are full of it since I don't believe I have commented on this exact idea here. Thanks for trying dave.

CkG

Of course if those "real" numbers ever do get published your .1 unemployment drop would be blown to hell. That sure would be a HUGE educational wake up call, not so "Obtuse" is it?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Zebo-

" "The sample is drawn from a sampling frame of unemployment insurance tax accounts."-they only count those revcieving unemployment benefits."

Everybody who's ever worked has such an account, so the only folks not included are those who've never had a job-

The 9.7% total unemployed, under-employed, marginalized and just flat gave up number is probably close to the truth- and it's growing... part and parcel of the growing downward pressure on wages and full-time employment...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I can't believe people think this is "news". It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME. OMG - THERE WERE UNDEREMPLOYED PEOPLE DURING THE "BOOMING 90s"? NO WAY!!!
(there is a new thread title for you dave )

No dave - none of this will drive me insane. I'm well aware of underemployment, unemployment, and the rest - PLUS how they are calculated and reported. It seems though that some people have been trying to make things seem worse than they really are.

Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean. But that really isn't realistic unless we were all numbered(oh wait SS# ) and forced to report our situation quarterly. If that were the case we would see who is PT, FT, "underemployed"(in their mind), actively looking, not looking, retired, able to work, etc. However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers. Sure you can get a "base" number using luny's numbers but as some here have pointed out - those numbers don't give an accurate picture of the job situation due to xxx.

But then again - I hope I am never forced to report my employment situation via the way I described above Imaging the repercussions of such a monthly/quarterly report - yikes.

Oh, btw - the "help wanted" index is up

CkG

"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree"

Wow, a big day, a slight waffling by the mighty CAD in the Ivory Tower.

Do you have a clue as to what I was talking about, or are you purposely trying to be obtuse?
"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement." is the FULL sentence. Followed by - "There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean."

Wow dave, if expressing some agreement with another person is "waffling" then people do it all the time. Ofcourse you are full of it since I don't believe I have commented on this exact idea here. Thanks for trying dave.

CkG

Of course if those "real" numbers ever do get published your .1 unemployment drop would be blown to hell. That sure would be a HUGE educational wake up call, not so "Obtuse" is it?

Do I have to repost my whole post?


Yes dave - you were being obtuse. There was no waffling, I don't live in an ivory tower, and I sure as hell know how people like you would react to seeing "real" numbers. You'd go off a cliff ranting about this and that - without having a clue as to why the numbers may be the way they are.

Now just so you read it ALL here is the post you seem to have trouble understanding-
**************
"I can't believe people think this is "news". It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME. OMG - THERE WERE UNDEREMPLOYED PEOPLE DURING THE "BOOMING 90s"? NO WAY!!! (there is a new thread title for you dave )
No dave - none of this will drive me insane. I'm well aware of underemployment, unemployment, and the rest - PLUS how they are calculated and reported. It seems though that some people have been trying to make things seem worse than they really are.
Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean. But that really isn't realistic unless we were all numbered(oh wait SS# ) and forced to report our situation quarterly. If that were the case we would see who is PT, FT, "underemployed"(in their mind), actively looking, not looking, retired, able to work, etc. However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers. Sure you can get a "base" number using luny's numbers but as some here have pointed out - those numbers don't give an accurate picture of the job situation due to xxx.
But then again - I hope I am never forced to report my employment situation via the way I described above Imaging the repercussions of such a monthly/quarterly report - yikes.
Oh, btw - the "help wanted" index is up
CkG"
***************

There - now read it(and luny's post) and try to understand it instead of trying to say I waffled

CkG
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I can't believe people think this is "news". It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME. OMG - THERE WERE UNDEREMPLOYED PEOPLE DURING THE "BOOMING 90s"? NO WAY!!!
(there is a new thread title for you dave )

No dave - none of this will drive me insane. I'm well aware of underemployment, unemployment, and the rest - PLUS how they are calculated and reported. It seems though that some people have been trying to make things seem worse than they really are.

Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean. But that really isn't realistic unless we were all numbered(oh wait SS# ) and forced to report our situation quarterly. If that were the case we would see who is PT, FT, "underemployed"(in their mind), actively looking, not looking, retired, able to work, etc. However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers. Sure you can get a "base" number using luny's numbers but as some here have pointed out - those numbers don't give an accurate picture of the job situation due to xxx.

But then again - I hope I am never forced to report my employment situation via the way I described above Imaging the repercussions of such a monthly/quarterly report - yikes.

Oh, btw - the "help wanted" index is up

CkG

"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree"

Wow, a big day, a slight waffling by the mighty CAD in the Ivory Tower.

Do you have a clue as to what I was talking about, or are you purposely trying to be obtuse?
"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement." is the FULL sentence. Followed by - "There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean."

Wow dave, if expressing some agreement with another person is "waffling" then people do it all the time. Ofcourse you are full of it since I don't believe I have commented on this exact idea here. Thanks for trying dave.

CkG

Of course if those "real" numbers ever do get published your .1 unemployment drop would be blown to hell. That sure would be a HUGE educational wake up call, not so "Obtuse" is it?

Do I have to repost my whole post?


Yes dave - you were being obtuse. There was no waffling, I don't live in an ivory tower, and I sure as hell know how people like you would react to seeing "real" numbers. You'd go off a cliff ranting about this and that - without having a clue as to why the numbers may be the way they are.

Now just so you read it ALL here is the post you seem to have trouble understanding-
**************
"I can't believe people think this is "news". It's obvious people don't understand how things have been calculated FOR A LONG TIME. OMG - THERE WERE UNDEREMPLOYED PEOPLE DURING THE "BOOMING 90s"? NO WAY!!! (there is a new thread title for you dave )
No dave - none of this will drive me insane. I'm well aware of underemployment, unemployment, and the rest - PLUS how they are calculated and reported. It seems though that some people have been trying to make things seem worse than they really are.
Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean. But that really isn't realistic unless we were all numbered(oh wait SS# ) and forced to report our situation quarterly. If that were the case we would see who is PT, FT, "underemployed"(in their mind), actively looking, not looking, retired, able to work, etc. However until that day comes there will not be "real" numbers. Sure you can get a "base" number using luny's numbers but as some here have pointed out - those numbers don't give an accurate picture of the job situation due to xxx.
But then again - I hope I am never forced to report my employment situation via the way I described above Imaging the repercussions of such a monthly/quarterly report - yikes.
Oh, btw - the "help wanted" index is up
CkG"
***************

There - now read it(and luny's post) and try to understand it instead of trying to say I waffled

CkG

This is hysterical. Like seeing Bush Sr all over agin with his "Read My Lips". You'd make a great Politician but even like Jr's Dad, make major slip ups.
 

kandarp

Platinum Member
May 19, 2003
2,852
0
0
krugman has an oped in the times this morning discussing the unemployment and growing income disparity.

nytimes

<quote>
It was a merry Christmas for Sharper Image and Neiman Marcus, which reported big sales increases over last year's holiday season. It was considerably less cheery at Wal-Mart and other low-priced chains. We don't know the final sales figures yet, but it's clear that high-end stores did very well, while stores catering to middle- and low-income families achieved only modest gains.

Based on these reports, you may be tempted to speculate that the economic recovery is an exclusive party, and most people weren't invited. You'd be right.

Commerce Department figures reveal a startling disconnect between overall economic growth, which has been impressive since last spring, and the incomes of a great majority of Americans. In the third quarter of 2003, as everyone knows, real G.D.P. rose at an annual rate of 8.2 percent. But wage and salary income, adjusted for inflation, rose at an annual rate of only 0.8 percent. More recent data don't change the picture: in the six months that ended in November, income from wages rose only 0.65 percent after inflation.

Why aren't workers sharing in the so-called boom? Start with jobs.

Payroll employment began rising in August, but the pace of job growth remains modest, averaging less than 90,000 per month. That's well short of the 225,000 jobs added per month during the Clinton years; it's even below the roughly 150,000 jobs needed to keep up with a growing working-age population.

But if the number of jobs isn't rising much, aren't workers at least earning more? You may have thought so. After all, companies have been able to increase output without hiring more workers, thanks to the rapidly rising output per worker. (Yes, that's a tautology.) Historically, higher productivity has translated into rising wages. But not this time: thanks to a weak labor market, employers have felt no pressure to share productivity gains. Calculations by the Economic Policy Institute show real wages for most workers flat or falling even as the economy expands.

An aside: how weak is the labor market? The measured unemployment rate of 5.9 percent isn't that high by historical standards, but there's something funny about that number. An unusually large number of people have given up looking for work, so they are no longer counted as unemployed, and many of those who say they have jobs seem to be only marginally employed. Such measures as the length of time it takes laid-off workers to get new jobs continue to indicate the worst job market in 20 years.

So if jobs are scarce and wages are flat, who's benefiting from the economy's expansion? The direct gains are going largely to corporate profits, which rose at an annual rate of more than 40 percent in the third quarter. Indirectly, that means that gains are going to stockholders, who are the ultimate owners of corporate profits. (That is, if the gains don't go to self-dealing executives, but let's save that topic for another day.)

Well, so what? Aren't we well on our way toward becoming what the administration and its reliable defenders call an "ownership society," in which everyone shares in stock market gains? Um, no. It's true that slightly more than half of American families participate in the stock market, either directly or through investment accounts. But most families own at most a few thousand dollars' worth of stocks.

A good indicator of the share of increased profits that goes to different income groups is the Congressional Budget Office's estimate of the share of the corporate profits tax that falls, indirectly, on those groups. According to the most recent estimate, only 8 percent of corporate taxes were paid by the poorest 60 percent of families, while 67 percent were paid by the richest 5 percent, and 49 percent by the richest 1 percent. ("Class warfare!" the right shouts.) So a recovery that boosts profits but not wages delivers the bulk of its benefits to a small, affluent minority.

The bottom line, then, is that for most Americans, current economic growth is a form of reality TV, something interesting that is, however, happening to other people. This may change if serious job creation ever kicks in, but it hasn't so far.

The big question is whether a recovery that does so little for most Americans can really be sustained. Can an economy thrive on sales of luxury goods alone? We may soon find out.
</quote>
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
This is hysterical. Like seeing Bush Sr all over agin with his "Read My Lips". You'd make a great Politician but even like Jr's Dad, make major slip ups.

The only thing hysterical is you.
Now do you understand my statement yet or do I have to disect each sentence of that post for you?

And you wonder why people seemingly pick on you dave

CkG
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Zebo-

" "The sample is drawn from a sampling frame of unemployment insurance tax accounts."-they only count those revcieving unemployment benefits."

Everybody who's ever worked has such an account, so the only folks not included are those who've never had a job-

The 9.7% total unemployed, under-employed, marginalized and just flat gave up number is probably close to the truth- and it's growing... part and parcel of the growing downward pressure on wages and full-time employment...

Still confused. Let me see here.

1. Everyone who has ever worked gets an account
2. In order to recieve unemployment benefits you must have worked
3. They only use those in a survey who have such an account
4. They only count those unemployed who are unemployed
5. These unemployed recieve benefits, see #2

Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Zebo-

" "The sample is drawn from a sampling frame of unemployment insurance tax accounts."-they only count those revcieving unemployment benefits."

Everybody who's ever worked has such an account, so the only folks not included are those who've never had a job-

The 9.7% total unemployed, under-employed, marginalized and just flat gave up number is probably close to the truth- and it's growing... part and parcel of the growing downward pressure on wages and full-time employment...

Still confused. Let me see here.

1. Everyone who has ever worked gets an account
2. In order to recieve unemployment benefits you must have worked
3. They only use those in a survey who have such an account
4. They only count those unemployed who are unemployed
5. These unemployed recieve benefits, see #2

Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits.

"Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits". CAD?
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Kandarp:

Nice piece! I guess my situation is a little too rosy, but my stocks are up. On the other hand, I own stocks. So I have a small piece of that Wall Street growth. I suspect a lot of middle America has a tiny piece as well and therein lies a small truth. Even if you own 10 shares of Uncle Mike's stock, the rise in the Nasdaq and Dow has buoyed your hopes and it is hope that drives humans. If a large number of Americans see little hope for a recovery then Bush will suffer at election time. Right now, I think hope is a stock that is rising rapidly. But, we'll see if that is just a large thin bubble easily pricked by the sharp vicissitudes of the market or something tangible and lasting.

-Robert
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: chess9
Kandarp:

Nice piece! I guess my situation is a little too rosy, but my stocks are up. On the other hand, I own stocks. So I have a small piece of that Wall Street growth. I suspect a lot of middle America has a tiny piece as well and therein lies a small truth. Even if you own 10 shares of Uncle Mike's stock, the rise in the Nasdaq and Dow has buoyed your hopes and it is hope that drives humans. If a large number of Americans see little hope for a recovery then Bush will suffer at election time. Right now, I think hope is a stock that is rising rapidly. But, we'll see if that is just a large thin bubble easily pricked by the sharp vicissitudes of the market or something tangible and lasting.

-Robert

It was costing me close to $1,000 month when I had to spend $500 to get out of the stock market. I am not rich where the rich boys are able to sustain throwing good money after bad for a while at a much reduced rate. Now they are throwing money back in for the Election, we'll see how long they can keep it up.


 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Zebo-

" "The sample is drawn from a sampling frame of unemployment insurance tax accounts."-they only count those revcieving unemployment benefits."

Everybody who's ever worked has such an account, so the only folks not included are those who've never had a job-

The 9.7% total unemployed, under-employed, marginalized and just flat gave up number is probably close to the truth- and it's growing... part and parcel of the growing downward pressure on wages and full-time employment...

Still confused. Let me see here.

1. Everyone who has ever worked gets an account
2. In order to recieve unemployment benefits you must have worked
3. They only use those in a survey who have such an account
4. They only count those unemployed who are unemployed
5. These unemployed recieve benefits, see #2

Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits.

"Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits". CAD?

And if you would actually READ my posts - you'd understand that I already know about this and have posted that it'd be nice to see some real numbers. You know - like what I agreed with luny about.

I think you need to take a couple days off from your computer dave - you don't seem to be well.

CkG
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Zebo-

" "The sample is drawn from a sampling frame of unemployment insurance tax accounts."-they only count those revcieving unemployment benefits."

Everybody who's ever worked has such an account, so the only folks not included are those who've never had a job-

The 9.7% total unemployed, under-employed, marginalized and just flat gave up number is probably close to the truth- and it's growing... part and parcel of the growing downward pressure on wages and full-time employment...

Still confused. Let me see here.

1. Everyone who has ever worked gets an account
2. In order to recieve unemployment benefits you must have worked
3. They only use those in a survey who have such an account
4. They only count those unemployed who are unemployed
5. These unemployed recieve benefits, see #2

Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits.

"Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits". CAD?

And if you would actually READ my posts - you'd understand that I already know about this and have posted that it'd be nice to see some real numbers. You know - like what I agreed with luny about.

I think you need to take a couple days off from your computer dave - you don't seem to be well.

CkG

"you'd understand that I already know about this and have posted that it'd be nice to see some real numbers."

He did it again, he agrees, horay!

Yes, and Happy New Year to you too, see you next year.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Zebo-

" "The sample is drawn from a sampling frame of unemployment insurance tax accounts."-they only count those revcieving unemployment benefits."

Everybody who's ever worked has such an account, so the only folks not included are those who've never had a job-

The 9.7% total unemployed, under-employed, marginalized and just flat gave up number is probably close to the truth- and it's growing... part and parcel of the growing downward pressure on wages and full-time employment...

Still confused. Let me see here.

1. Everyone who has ever worked gets an account
2. In order to recieve unemployment benefits you must have worked
3. They only use those in a survey who have such an account
4. They only count those unemployed who are unemployed
5. These unemployed recieve benefits, see #2

Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits.

"Again I still beleive they only count those recieving benefits". CAD?

And if you would actually READ my posts - you'd understand that I already know about this and have posted that it'd be nice to see some real numbers. You know - like what I agreed with luny about.

I think you need to take a couple days off from your computer dave - you don't seem to be well.

CkG

"you'd understand that I already know about this and have posted that it'd be nice to see some real numbers."

He did it again, he agrees, horay!

Yes, and Happy New Year to you too, see you next year.

Glad to see you didn't have a reading problem that time

"Now yes - I tend to somewhat agree with luny and his statement. There needs to be "real" numbers and then there needs to be an HUGE educational movement to help people understand what these numbers mean." - from my first post in this thread.

Thanks for playing dave.

CkG
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Dave:

Yeah, I know what you mean. I just sat on my stocks. Took the long, long, long view. One of my wife's funds lost 80% of its value but has bounced back very strong the last 2 quarters. Since I'm retired, we're holding our breath!
At my age I can't really afford big losses. Back in the '80's I had a lot of money in the commodity market and lost ALL of it. My broker paid several thousand in negative losses because he was a buddy and made a bundle trading my accounts. I hope I never see another spread again unless it's oleo.

-Robert
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: chess9
Dave:

Yeah, I no what you mean. I just sat on my stocks. Took the long, long, long view. One of my wife's funds lost 80% of its value but has bounced back very strong the last 2 quarters. Since I'm retired, we're holding our breath!
At my age I can't really afford big losses. Back in the '80's I had a lot of money in the commodity market and lost ALL of it. My broker paid several thousand in negative losses because he was a buddy and made a bundle trading my accounts. I hope I never see another spread again unless it's oleo.

-Robert

Glad you were able to "ride" it out while the rich boys played with everyone's money.

Hope you enjoy and have a great Retirement.


 
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