the fuck is this horseshit? Are you this fucking illiterate? please kindly point out where I ever argued such a thing.
Are you one of those idiots that failed out of your simple writing courses because you could never present a tangible argument and instead blamed the "Evil liberal professor" for being "biased" against your unsupported, emotional arguments?
Do you mean to tell me that if you were hit by a bus and were presented an option of an emergency room visit for $1000 and another for $10,000, you wouldn't care?
Explain to me how the US has free-market healthcare right now. Because it's not at all apparent to me.
It would be one of the last things on my mind. This is the only life I have so in a life threatening situation I am going to the place where I have the best chance to survive, cost is a very, very, VERY secondary matter. After all if I die what good was my money anyway?
This is another reason why in a truly free market health care system the outcomes would be monstrous. Hey look, Bill Gates got hit by a bus and you're the only hospital nearby? That will be $5 billion dollars please. What's he going to say, no?
I already linked research that showed that even in non-life threatening situations price discrimination simply doesn't happen.
This is how conservatives always try to hand wave away the failures of our free market system. While no system is truly free market as people are unwilling to see the bodies pile up in the street our system is about the 'free-est market' health care system in the developed world.
So how do you square the fact that the hallmark of basically every other developed world health system is far greater government involvement with far better results? Doesn't that make you want us to have far greater government involvement? Is this just an ideological thing?
I confess I don't understand that. If you die, money doesn't matter. If you live, money does matter. You're going to the ER because you want to live, and if you live, you'll be responsible for the cost of your care. It makes sense to choose the least expensive option.
There's a law that mandates ER care irrespective of ability to pay. If they then bill him 5 billion dollars afterward, what judge would hear a lawsuit attempting to recover such charges?
If you were in a non-life threatening situation, for example a flu shot, would you not care if it cost you $40 or $400?
By what metric? Medicare provides insurance to about a sixth of the US population. That's a pretty strong injection of universal healthcare into a free-market system. It's enough in my opinion to muddy things to such an extent as to defy easy classification.
Our present system reflects the costs of both systems and the benefits of neither.
No two countries have the same system. Give me one country to use as an example.
I confess I don't understand that. If you die, money doesn't matter. If you live, money does matter. You're going to the ER because you want to live, and if you live, you'll be responsible for the cost of your care. It makes sense to choose the least expensive option.
There's a law that mandates ER care irrespective of ability to pay. If they then bill him 5 billion dollars afterward, what judge would hear a lawsuit attempting to recover such charges?
If you were in a non-life threatening situation, for example a flu shot, would you not care if it cost you $40 or $400?
By what metric? Medicare provides insurance to about a sixth of the US population. That's a pretty strong injection of universal healthcare into a free-market system. It's enough in my opinion to muddy things to such an extent as to defy easy classification.
Our present system reflects the costs of both systems and the benefits of neither.
No two countries have the same system. Give me one country to use as an example.
I confess I don't understand that. If you die, money doesn't matter. If you live, money does matter. You're going to the ER because you want to live, and if you live, you'll be responsible for the cost of your care. It makes sense to choose the least expensive option.
It would be one of the last things on my mind. This is the only life I have so in a life threatening situation I am going to the place where I have the best chance to survive, cost is a very, very, VERY secondary matter. After all if I die what good was my money anyway?
No, it makes sense to choose the one where you're most likely to survive. The cost/benefit analysis is blindingly obvious.
Not going to disagree with you - but price makes a difference as well. In my area there are tons of hospitals, and there are about 3 that I would trust my life with. Between those 3 - I trust them all equally - so from there it would be price.
Right now, no one even knows/cares what the "best one "you're most likely to survive" is... let alone the least expensive.
Are you going to peruse their catalogs while you're in the ambulance?
Unless you are unconscious, you can make a competent financial decision.
The root of the problem is regulations of pricing. When the person performing the service (doctor) is unable to tell you "How much does it cost, doc?" That's a symptom of a FUCKING GINORMOUS problem. When the provider of a service can't even tell you how much their own service costs... that's a problem.
If there were regulations where accurate dollar pricing had to be on display and publicly available to the point where an ER custodian could tell you the prices, you would have no problem making a decision. Prices would also (coincidentally) drop.
But when you get into an ambulance and have zero fucking clue what the ambulance will cost - LET ALONE the ER they are taking you to - that IS the root of the problem.
Depends, if the ambulance custodian can pull out their tablet (which they will already have for diagnosing your information, symtoms, etc..) they could plug in your diagnosis and say "It will cost you $XX here, $YY here, and $ZZ here" it honestly wouldn't be difficult. We aren't in the stone ages here.
I understand It's not a simple problem that can be solved overnight - but there isn't a doubt in my mind that the crux of the problem is no one knows the pricing. No one knows what the out of pocket costs are. No one knows whats in network or out of network. Like I said when the FUCKING DOCTOR themselves can't tell you what THEIR OWN SERVICES costs. That is the problem.
It’s not only unconsciousness. Here’s another scenario.
Your two year old who’s been mildly ill becomes unresponsive, stops breathing and turns blue. You call 911.
In the time it takes for the ambulance to arrive she starts breathing again.
As she is loaded into the ambulance she stops breathing again. Do you:
A: Allow the paramedics to work on your daughter and drive quickly to the hospital of their professional choice?
B: Tell them to go to the nearest hospital?
C: Ask then which hospitals in the area take your insurance and what’s the relative costs for treatment of whatever is wrong with your daughter?
For us it was A.
There is absolutely no way on any planet that emergency personnel could or would attempt to quote you prices while you are en route to the hospital. First of all, in many cases they don’t have the slightest clue what your diagnosis is. You just got hit by a bus. Are you bleeding internally? Is something broken? Do you have neurological damage? Okay, your quote is anywhere from $1,000 to $200,000.
When you talk about pricing transparency for generalized, non emergency procedures that information is often readily available. I had to get CT scans regularly for years and the price was clearly stated.
So what was the price you put on your daughter's life? Are you maintaining a ledger to present her an invoice when she's... what 18? 25?Yeah very true. Something tells me this occurred with you obviously...
I had something similar. Our daughter was born @ 26 weeks. After spending 3 months in the NICU and after a week at home she stopped breathing during a nap. Thankfully our mother in law was actually watching her during the nap and noticed.
Wife was able to hook her up to oxygen and get her to start breathing before the ambulance came. Still ended up going to the hospital - but yes, of course, medical professionals can likely make a better qualified opinion. For example - when it comes to breathing - going to the best hospital isn't so much important as to the nearest hospital... because you know... breathing is kinda a requirement that you can't hold off to get to the medical district for.
Catalogs? A true free market health care system would not have catalogs. Supply and demand requires market pricing, 'specially tailored' to every customer's individual needs.Are you going to peruse their catalogs while you're in the ambulance?
Yeah very true. Something tells me this occurred with you obviously...
I had something similar. Our daughter was born @ 26 weeks. After spending 3 months in the NICU and after a week at home she stopped breathing during a nap. Thankfully our mother in law was actually watching her during the nap and noticed.
Wife was able to hook her up to oxygen and get her to start breathing before the ambulance came. Still ended up going to the hospital - but yes, of course, medical professionals can likely make a better qualified opinion. For example - when it comes to breathing - going to the best hospital isn't so much important as to the nearest hospital... because you know... breathing is kinda a requirement that you can't hold off to get to the medical district for.
Majority of the pricing is likely going to be based on if the hospital (and the personnel) are in network - but moreso how much it costs per day in the emergency room. It isn't difficult. If it costs $1,000/day or $500/day in a hospital bed it isn't hard to judge.
As someone that has been through plenty of extensive surgeries, diagnosis, etc.... you're high as balls. No one can ever cite for me the prices of anything in any of the hospitals or doctor offices that I have ever been to. It doesn't exist. You found a unicorn if what you're saying is true.
if the ambulance custodian.
Are you going to peruse their catalogs while you're in the ambulance?
Something broken in the translation software, or do you have something against EMTs?
It is very hard to judge because hospitals often charge wildly different things for different procedures. That place with the $500 bed may charge $5,000 for a procedure the $1,000/day place charges $2,000 for. Without knowing exactly what treatment you will be getting there is no way of knowing what the price is.
What you are suggesting will never, ever happen.
I'm guessing you associate the word "custodian" with a clean-up crew or something? It has a generally more wide definition than just that one profession: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/custodian
Yes.
Even if you want to pick a different hospital for treatment in these cases you’ll still have to pay for stabilization and diagnosis at the hospital the ambulance takes you to.
In our case diagnosis included CT scans, spinal tap and blood tests. (Never had a high fever, never found anything. She’s fine now and never repeated a seizure)
Hope your daughter is well. Had a friend who had a baby around 26 weeks too. It’s amazing the NICU can bring them to full term and be healthy.
She is doing damn well for a 26-weeker. Have yet to find a flaw in her - though I kinda wish there were sometimes when I hear her strong vocal cords
But yeah, given 26-weeks and what you see of common issues that they tend to get, it's amazing that she basically came out with very little issues. She actually turns 2 years old today (18 months gestational).