John Walker Lindh Attacked in Prison

[LH]

He pled to that because the US gave him that offer because they didnt want a long drawn out trial that would have been extremely complicated, and he might have gotten off.

Who did he hurt? Its debateble but he was there when our CIA agent was killed.

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: notfred I'm not trying to spread any faith, just pointing out some of the problems with yours. Based on the content of your posts, you have stronger alleigences to AT&T Boradband than you do to your religion. You'll defend AT&T to the bitter end, but you start ignoring your christian principles as soon as you get angry at some guy you never met who moved halfway around the world. People just like you are the ones that complain that America is in a downward spiral because of the lack of Christian morals...

give me a break.

dayum

i thought he quit working for AT&T

 

[Mookow]

who didnt see this coming?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: LH
He pled to that because the US gave him that offer because they didnt want a long drawn out trial that would have been extremely complicated, and he might have gotten off.

Who did he hurt? Its debateble but he was there when our CIA agent was killed.

The whole point of his trial was that he didn't renounce his citizenship. If he had, he would have been processed along with the others, perhaps just with a little more television coverage. Because he didn't, the government went after him like I've not seen them persue someone before. I guess I'm just young. It's a little disturbing how the government was practically drooling over the whole idea of prosecuting him, but geez. This guy is not innocent, people! He isn't "misguided." He isn't "confused." He made the choice to support an organization that actively bashed the U.S., lead by a man (now several) who are on the FBI's most wanted list, and who then made good on their threats.

You're going to sit there and tell me that he could have possibly gotten off if he pleaded innocent!?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Pepsei

Originally posted by: notfred I'm not trying to spread any faith, just pointing out some of the problems with yours. Based on the content of your posts, you have stronger alleigences to AT&T Boradband than you do to your religion. You'll defend AT&T to the bitter end, but you start ignoring your christian principles as soon as you get angry at some guy you never met who moved halfway around the world. People just like you are the ones that complain that America is in a downward spiral because of the lack of Christian morals...

give me a break.

dayum

i thought he quit working for AT&T

I did. And my allegiance to AT&T was only because my other choice was a bitchy customer who complained about things they didn't understand and demanded service on a silver platter -all while refusing to pay their bill or some bullsh|t nonsense like that. When it comes to good people who aren't customers from hell, I side with them. I do not like AT&T and I never have. But I do choose to side with the lesser of two evils.

When it comes to my faith (different from my religion), I'm just as fallible as the next guy.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
My faith says that I shouldn't feel the way I do, but too bad... Fry the bastard.

And they wonder why people find Christians annoying when they try to "spread thier faith" or whatever....

So you're saying that only perfect humans should be allowed to "spread their faith"? Wow... I'm sure you're SO much better than everyone else, aren't ya.

No just you.

I'm saying something close to that. I don't want to be taught by someone who doesn't understand the subject or preached to by someone who doesn't follow the preachings. "Do as I say, not as I do" lost credibility when I turned 5.

 

[HOWITIS]

i'm a big supporter of killing traitors so i'm very dissipointed in this failed attempt

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
My faith says that I shouldn't feel the way I do, but too bad... Fry the bastard.

And they wonder why people find Christians annoying when they try to "spread thier faith" or whatever....

So you're saying that only perfect humans should be allowed to "spread their faith"? Wow... I'm sure you're SO much better than everyone else, aren't ya.

No just you.

I'm saying something close to that. I don't want to be taught by someone who doesn't understand the subject or preached to by someone who doesn't follow the preachings. "Do as I say, not as I do" lost credibility when I turned 5.

Do you see me going door to door or leading a "flock" under my own church? No. I can answer questions you have about the religion side and the faith side of Christianity, but if you're looking to me to set an example, you're going to be let down. It's called being human. You can't expect perfection from imperfect beings. You lost credibility because you expected people to be flawless? Can you understand why that was setting yourself up to fail in the beginning?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt

Originally posted by: LH
He pled to that because the US gave him that offer because they didnt want a long drawn out trial that would have been extremely complicated, and he might have gotten off.

Who did he hurt? Its debateble but he was there when our CIA agent was killed.

The whole point of his trial was that he didn't renounce his citizenship. If he had, he would have been processed along with the others, perhaps just with a little more television coverage. Because he didn't, the government went after him like I've not seen them persue someone before. I guess I'm just young. It's a little disturbing how the government was practically drooling over the whole idea of prosecuting him, but geez. This guy is not innocent, people! He isn't "misguided." He isn't "confused." He made the choice to support an organization that actively bashed the U.S., lead by a man (now several) who are on the FBI's most wanted list, and who then made good on their threats.

You're going to sit there and tell me that he could have possibly gotten off if he pleaded innocent!?

Well once the war started he was srewed either way... What's he going to do? Tell his Taliban friends, "Well it was nice and all and I love your brand of Islam, but I gotta go now" Ya right he would have been decapitated before finishig the sentence.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt

Originally posted by: LH
He pled to that because the US gave him that offer because they didnt want a long drawn out trial that would have been extremely complicated, and he might have gotten off.

Who did he hurt? Its debateble but he was there when our CIA agent was killed.

The whole point of his trial was that he didn't renounce his citizenship. If he had, he would have been processed along with the others, perhaps just with a little more television coverage. Because he didn't, the government went after him like I've not seen them persue someone before. I guess I'm just young. It's a little disturbing how the government was practically drooling over the whole idea of prosecuting him, but geez. This guy is not innocent, people! He isn't "misguided." He isn't "confused." He made the choice to support an organization that actively bashed the U.S., lead by a man (now several) who are on the FBI's most wanted list, and who then made good on their threats.

You're going to sit there and tell me that he could have possibly gotten off if he pleaded innocent!?

Well once the war started he was srewed either way... What's he going to do? Tell his Taliban friends, "Well it was nice and all and I love your brand of Islam, but I gotta go now" Ya right he would have been decapitated before finishig the sentence.

He made the decision to stay. So it's not his fault that he stayed because he was too much of a wuss to stand up and leave? Please... it was his decision to join and his decision to stay. Come on... you don't get up and leave, go half way around the world, and join some organization you know nothing about. You do research on the group and find out just what they stand for. Lindh must have agreed with them. Do you think he was on an extended vacation and just got caught up with the tour guide or something???

 

[Maverick]

he was loyal to his cause...he didn't betray the US...he abandoned it. And how can he "renounce his citizenship"...walk up to the nearest embassy and say I don't want to be an American anymore? They don't just hand out renouncements.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: HOWITIS
i'm a big supporter of killing traitors so i'm very dissipointed in this failed attempt

You're a traitor...


See, me saying it doesn't make it true. He wasn't convicted of being a traitor because they had no case. But I guess it's much easier to sit at home and wish the death of people you know nothing about than to actually research the case and see what he was guilty of. Right now I'm sitting here wishing for the death of anyone who wishes the death of other people.

Edit: Can't feel pulse... My own wish got me. Who knew my own hypocrisy would one day catch up with me?

 

[Moonbeam]

notfred:
Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
My faith says that I shouldn't feel the way I do, but too bad... Fry the bastard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And they wonder why people find Christians annoying when they try to "spread thier faith" or whatever....
------------
Yup and he called me an asshole when I told him the same thing. But what he calls human isn't what is human, it's psychopathology and not something one should ordinarily be proud of or manifest with great gusto.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Shiva112
he was loyal to his cause...he didn't betray the US...he abandoned it. And how can he "renounce his citizenship"...walk up to the nearest embassy and say I don't want to be an American anymore? They don't just hand out renouncements.

Yes, you can renounce your citizenship. How do you think people move to Canada and become citizens there? How do you think people move to Germany or some other country and become citizens there? The U.S. removes your citizenship when you become a citizen of another country unless you marry into citizenship or are a child born from a citizen --blah blah blah. Long story, lots of variables, lots of rules. The short of it is that you can renounce your citizenship. He betrayed the U.S. because he supported a group who attacked us while still a member of the U.S.

Look at it this way.

While playing Counter Strike, think of a CT spawning with the rest of the CTs and running off to hide. When the Ts make their break for it and rush the bomb site, the CT is with them, supporting the Ts. Whether he fires a shot or not doesn't make him any less guilty.

Okay that was lame.

 

[Maverick]

somehow I don't think the guy really had any way of going to the nearest embassy (which was probably in Pakistan) and filling out the paperwork to renounce his citizenship. I don't think the Taliban really had the setup for all that paperwork. I doubt they even issue passports. You can't compare it to moving to Canada

 

[Zebo]

Cobalt he was not Al queada, he did not attack us. He was forced under gun to defend his tribe or whatever. Honestly I don't think this guy should be in prison he should be working at the CIA. We need human intel and maybe he could get on the inside of the Al Queada network eventually. But NO, The president wanted you to feel safe so they rail-roaded this kid. You are not any safer today just about 45K a year poorer for locking this dude up. Meanwhile how you actually stop covert actions like terror is infiltration is'nt really happening.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt


Do you see me going door to door or leading a "flock" under my own church? No. I can answer questions you have about the religion side and the faith side of Christianity, but if you're looking to me to set an example, you're going to be let down. It's called being human. You can't expect perfection from imperfect beings. You lost credibility because you expected people to be flawless? Can you understand why that was setting yourself up to fail in the beginning?

So where does it say in Christianity that because you aren't perfect, you don't have to try to be? That you can actively do things you know are against the teachings of your faith and not feel bad because "you're human"? Please teach me about that. A religion dictates a set of rules you follow throughout your life. It doesn't give you exemptions because you're mad at the time, and especially doesn't allow you to consciously make a choice to disregard the rules and excuse it because you're imperfect.


I've taught and mentored a lot of people younger than me. I don't tell them to do anything I don't do myself. I can't possibly expect my words to have any impact on them if what I do contradicts what I say. They're smarter than that. I also don't really believe something if I don't follow it myself. People can hear the emptiness in your words. Someone who openly and proudly admits that they're fine with disregarding their beliefs shouldn't be teaching those beliefs to others.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Cobalt he was not Al queada, he did not attack us. He was forced under gun to defend his tribe or whatever. Honestly I don't think this guy should be in prison he should be working at the CIA. We need human intel and maybe he could get on the inside of the Al Queada network eventually. But NO, The president wanted you to feel safe so they rail-roaded this kid. You are not any safer today just about 45K a year poorer for locking this dude up.

Well, since I only make about $20k per year, I'm in trouble aren't I!

Dude. If he wanted to, there are ways of removing your citizenship and gaining it in the country he moved to. He joined a "tribe" knowing full well that he would be expected to defend them. Why would he NOT defend a group that he chose over the country that he chose to forsake? He joined them, you'd think he'd want to defend them too. Even if he was under gun, he still made the choice to do it! Damn, guys. Just because someone puts a gun to your head doesn't remove your responsibility to do what's right.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Cobalt he was not Al queada, he did not attack us. He was forced under gun to defend his tribe or whatever. Honestly I don't think this guy should be in prison he should be working at the CIA. We need human intel and maybe he could get on the inside of the Al Queada network eventually. But NO, The president wanted you to feel safe so they rail-roaded this kid. You are not any safer today just about 45K a year poorer for locking this dude up. Meanwhile how you actually stop covert actions like terror is infiltration is'nt really happening.

If he hadn't of taken up arms against the U.S. he wouldn't have been in the predicament he is today. Even if he didn't originally enlist to fight the USA he was giving comfort and support to those who were.

 

[adlep]

Cobalt he was not Al queada, he did not attack us. He was forced under gun to defend his tribe or whatever. Honestly I don't think this guy should be in prison he should be working at the CIA. We need human intel and maybe he could get on the inside of the Al Queada network eventually. But NO, The president wanted you to feel safe so they rail-roaded this kid. You are not any safer today just about 45K a year poorer for locking this dude up.

Once again, he hasn't done anything wrong, instead of locking him up in the prison, they should recruit him for CIA....

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Cobalt he was not Al queada, he did not attack us. He was forced under gun to defend his tribe or whatever. Honestly I don't think this guy should be in prison he should be working at the CIA. We need human intel and maybe he could get on the inside of the Al Queada network eventually. But NO, The president wanted you to feel safe so they rail-roaded this kid. You are not any safer today just about 45K a year poorer for locking this dude up. Meanwhile how you actually stop covert actions like terror is infiltration is'nt really happening.

If he hadn't of taken up arms against the U.S. he wouldn't have been in the predicament he is today. Even if he didn't originally enlist to fight the USA he was giving comfort and support to those who were.

This is true.

And we know this how? The government told us after holding him 54 days with no advocate present. OK. I'm just glad they got that little dweeb of the streets, he scared me.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: yowolabi
So where does it say in Christianity that because you aren't perfect, you don't have to try to be? That you can actively do things you know are against the teachings of your faith and not feel bad because "you're human"? Please teach me about that. A religion dictates a set of rules you follow throughout your life. It doesn't give you exemptions because you're mad at the time, and especially doesn't allow you to consciously make a choice to disregard the rules and excuse it because you're imperfect.

It doesn't. And who says that I'm not trying to atleast be better? Fvck, we've got to stop thread crapping. Who said that I don't feel bad about it, either? And who said that I don't, at some point, make the right decision? Instead of trying to be perfect, I try to do what I can. It's impossible to be perfect, so why try? That's just stupid. If you can say that you've done something wrong after you were taught that it was wrong, then you have no room to talk.

I've taught and mentored a lot of people younger than me. I don't tell them to do anything I don't do myself. I can't possibly expect my words to have any impact on them if what I do contradicts what I say. They're smarter than that. I also don't really believe something if I don't follow it myself. People can hear the emptiness in your words. Someone who openly and proudly admits that they're fine with disregarding their beliefs shouldn't be teaching those beliefs to others.

You mentor people younger than you? Great. Do they realize that it is impossible for you to not make mistakes? If they're expecting you to set an example and never make a mistake, they're setting themselves up for a let down. And you're allowing them to. Now, you may only mentor them on things that you have a good grasp on, which is cool. How can you not acknowledge the things that I do right, pick out the things I do wrong and preach at me about how I have the audacity to defy my faith when you don't acknowledge your own faults and see that I might be, in fact, the quite similar to yourself? I've given advice to people on things I've made mistakes about -because I've learned from them. I don't give advice to people about things that I don't have a grasp on. Why would I? That's foolish. You obviously have either made mistakes and learned from them or not made the mistakes in the first place because you knew the difference. Others learn the hard way. You say that these people younger than you are smarter than to believe that something is true if you say it but don't follow through. Do they not have any sense of right and wrong on their own? Do they have such closed and narrow minds to think that you're the only person who is an authority on the matter and that if you make a mistake that it's the end of the world or that what you say isn't true? Wow... Impressive!

You talk about the emptiness of my words. How so? Do I go around preaching that people shouldn't use profanity or something? Do I go around spouting about not murdering but then go around talking about how it's great that some guy got killed in prison? No. I know where I stand on issues, and I stick to them both in word and action. Some days I make mistakes. Big deal. Judge your own life before trying to figure out what's wrong with someone else's life by looking at one small piece of it.

 

[Moonbeam]

I guess we should gas every kid that joins a gang for protection too. Walker may be stupid or posessed to prove something, but I didn't see any evidence that he was supportive of killing innocent people. Anyway, he was handled or mishandled by our justice system and people who have their own vigilanty notions that he should suffer greater and more unusual punishment are an anathema to American justice.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I guess we should gas every kid that joins a gang for protection too. Walker may be stupid or posessed to prove something, but I didn't see any evidence that he was supportive of killing innocent people. Anyway, he was handled or mishandled by our justice system and people who have their own vigilanty notions that he should suffer greater and more unusual punishment are an anathema to American justice.

If the gang participates as a group in something illegal, then why not prosecute the gang?

 

[rickn]

I heard that prison now produces vaseline. coincidence?