Journalist/write gets three "Obama" phones rather easily

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Sep 7, 2009
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Uh, yes, "happens enough to give is a shit" is a pretty good metric for deciding to take action. You're aware that it's impossible to stop 100% of all fraud and waste, right? The private market does. Every retail store has a certain amount of "breakage" they calculate into running costs, because actually stopping every bit of theft is cost prohibitive and unnecessary. But I guess it's "defending waste and theft" for them to do that?

What you've described might work, but how do you know there aren't already policies in place to accomplish exactly this goal, but take longer than the 1 day since the author got these phones in order to function? Because your plan wouldn't stop him from getting the phones either, it would just stop him from keeping them.



ROFL if obama specifically took steps to stop all government aid abuses he would lose 75%+ of his voting demographic.

No way that this will ever happen.


It's OBAMA he's gonna get me a OBAMAPHONE gotta vote OBAMA.
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
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LOL on factcheck.org

"Nor is it paid for with "tax payer money," as the e-mail claims. Rather, it is funded through the Universal Service Fund, ...." The companies often charge customers to fund their contributions in the form of a universal service fee you might see on your monthly phone bill."

Only a lib group can claim that's not a tax, because its called a fee.



Yup I love it when the liberalies try to make it out like these handouts are not a "tax".


B-b-b-buh buh b-b-but the money is charged as a FEE so it's not a TAX...


ROFL....... Just one more way our Dear Leader takes money from anyone who works to funnel it down to people who don't. If you can afford to have the luxury of paying a cell phone bill then you can afford to funnel some money down to his constituents!
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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Fraudulent title. They're Regan/Bush phones.

No, these are obamaphones. Bush has not been in office in a while and Reagan made land lines available. Obama is the one who continues to reduce the requirements for getting phones and expanding the program.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Yep, fraud occurs. To help reduce fraud, people perpetrating fraud should be given much more than a slap on the wrist. If someone reasons, "Well, I can get $1000 for nothing, but I have a 20% chance of getting caught. If I'm caught, I'll have to pay it back, plus I'll have a criminal record."

And, that seems to be it: if you get caught, you're sentenced to a slap on the wrist, and restitution. I think there should be a significant financial penalty automatically assessed for people intentionally committing these frauds. And, you can start with the reporter who most likely committed fraud (if he did indeed commit some form of fraud.)

edit: after reading the article, it sounds like it wasn't fraud on his part, but rather, it was either fraud, or gross incompetence by the people signing him up. Nonetheless, I'd bet that somewhere, he had to sign. And prior to that signature was something to the effect of stating that "by signing, you agree, blah blah blah" that would make it fraudulent for him to knowingly receive a phone he wasn't entitled to.
 
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rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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edit: after reading the article, it sounds like it wasn't fraud on his part, but rather, it was either fraud, or gross incompetence by the people signing him up. Nonetheless, I'd bet that somewhere, he had to sign. And prior to that signature was something to the effect of stating that "by signing, you agree, blah blah blah" that would make it fraudulent for him to knowingly receive a phone he wasn't entitled to.

I think the point of the article is to show that these people designated to give out phones are encouraged to do so because their companies get more money.

Sure you are supposed to get only one phone. But there are not many checks and balances in this program it seems.
 

Yreka

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
4,084
0
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I'm pretty sure there is zero incenrive for the companies providing the service not to curb such waste/fraud.

Another shady business? Yeah probably.

This is really the problem I have with it.. I don't mind the program... I don't even mind switching to wireless if it is in fact cheaper..

If you are going to put a program in place, at LEAST act like you are spending your own money. This program looks like a blank check to the vulture service providers, and they are having a feast.

Also, as mentioned the cost increase or the phones themselves have nothing to do with Obama. The delicious irony here is the term "Obamaphone" was coined by an ignorant Obama supporter. She believed it was the President who made all of these wonderful devices available to her (I'm sure we all remember the viral video and remixes).

She also had about 30 phones in her possession with active minutes IIRC
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
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LOL on factcheck.org

"Nor is it paid for with "tax payer money," as the e-mail claims. Rather, it is funded through the Universal Service Fund, ...." The companies often charge customers to fund their contributions in the form of a universal service fee you might see on your monthly phone bill."

Only a lib group can claim that's not a tax, because its called a fee.

Yup I love it when the liberalies try to make it out like these handouts are not a "tax".


B-b-b-buh buh b-b-but the money is charged as a FEE so it's not a TAX...


ROFL....... Just one more way our Dear Leader takes money from anyone who works to funnel it down to people who don't. If you can afford to have the luxury of paying a cell phone bill then you can afford to funnel some money down to his constituents!
Actually, "lib" groups (apparently meaning honest people with critical thinking skills, in this case) don't consider it a tax because it is charged by private companies, is collected by private companies, and is paid to a private, non-profit company. Most people consider "tax" to mean something collected by government, or paid to government. You "cons" will no doubt continue to pervert that simple concept as needed to maintain your knee-jerk, purely partisan outrage.

Further, this fee has nothing to do with "Dear Leader", no matter how many times you glibly parrot that lie. Both the fund and the lifeline phone program long predate Obama. As a clever person might infer from the name, "Universal Service Fund", the intent was ensure that a basic, critical service like telephone communications is available to everyone, no matter where they live or how poor they are. This program was extended to cell phones (presumably) because they have become cost effective and convenient. Contrary to your childish, s******ing innuendo, these folks aren't getting iPhones with unlimited data. They are getting basic cell phones with strictly limited minutes. Of course you won't hear that from the nutter bubble media, because the truth isn't nearly inflammatory enough.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
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no data plan? what bullshit. Shows how out of touch the president really is. Do these phones at least have wifi?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,463
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LOL on factcheck.org

"Nor is it paid for with "tax payer money," as the e-mail claims. Rather, it is funded through the Universal Service Fund, ...." The companies often charge customers to fund their contributions in the form of a universal service fee you might see on your monthly phone bill."

Only a lib group can claim that's not a tax, because its called a fee.

When you are provided with facts and you still choose to ignore them, you've embodied the very definition of stupid.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Actually, "lib" groups (apparently meaning honest people with critical thinking skills, in this case) don't consider it a tax because it is charged by private companies, is collected by private companies, and is paid to a private, non-profit company. Most people consider "tax" to mean something collected by government, or paid to government. You "cons" will no doubt continue to pervert that simple concept as needed to maintain your knee-jerk, purely partisan outrage.

USAC reports quarterly revenue projections detailing what contributions are expected and detailing what actions are taken in the expansion and bolstering of universal service. While the USAC cannot act without Congressional approval, it can make recommendations. USAC recommendations have resulted in expanding telecommunication resources, particularly broadband Internet and mobile access to schools and libraries, and recognizing Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) as a form of interstate and international communication, which requires those companies providing VoIP services to contribute to the USF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund#Universal_Service_Administrative_Company

:hmm: Doesn't sound so private to me.

Are you saying there is an actual distinction between a "tax" and a "mandatory fee paid to corporation that needs congressional approval to act"?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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What change to this program did Obama make, exactly?

I don't think that any changes are even alleged. What is alleged is that certain welfare eligibility requirements, particularly for food stamps, were expanded under Obama's stimulus bill. Since being on some sort of public assistance is the principle requirement to be eligible for the telephone program, this then has allegedly expanded the telephone program.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund#Universal_Service_Administrative_Company

:hmm: Doesn't sound so private to me.

Are you saying there is an actual distinction between a "tax" and a "mandatory fee paid to corporation that needs congressional approval to act"?

I looked into this, and the answer to whether it is a "tax" is sort of yes and no.

The way it works is this:

The Universal Service Fund is a non-profit NGO that was set up by the FCC (government agency.) The USF is funded by contributions from telecommunications providers. As I read the Telecommunications Act of 1996, providers of interstate telecommunications services are required "to contribute, on an equitable and nondiscriminatory basis, to the specific, predictable, and sufficient mechanisms established by the Commission to preserve and advance universal service." I gather from this that the FCC determines the extent of contributions from each telecom provider.

Some of these providers charge their customers a "universal service fee" which they then use to cover these contributions, though the charge to the consumer is not mandatory and not all telecom providers do this.

The money is then provided by the USF to the telecom providers who supply the phones to the applicants. This USF money also goes to some other programs besides this one, like establishing telecom infrastructure in rural areas.

I think a better analogy here than a "tax" is that it's more like a regulation which costs a corporation x amount of money, and that cost may be passed on to the corporation's customers.
 
Sep 7, 2009
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The liberal extremists can call it all they want, but if it's a government mandated required fee then it's a tax.

I'm sure there are all sorts of word games that can be played with this, but the intention is to take money from people who work hard to afford the "luxury" of a cell phone and give that money to obama's constituents.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
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The liberal extremists can call it all they want, but if it's a government mandated required fee then it's a tax.

I'm sure there are all sorts of word games that can be played with this, but the intention is to take money from people who work hard to afford the "luxury" of a cell phone and give that money to obama's constituents.

And the constituents of all the POTUS's before Obama since the program started? Just want to make sure you aren't leaving them out.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,463
15,290
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The liberal extremists can call it all they want, but if it's a government mandated required fee then it's a tax.

I'm sure there are all sorts of word games that can be played with this, but the intention is to take money from people who work hard to afford the "luxury" of a cell phone and give that money to obama's constituents.

It was a fund that the telcos were to pay into but were allowed to pass the costs on to consumers, they don't have to but they choose to. You can call it a tax if you want but it does come under the "tax" portion of your bill.
 
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Sep 7, 2009
12,960
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It was a fund that the telcos were to pay into but were allowed to pass the costs on to consumers, they don't have to but they choose to. You can call it a tax of you want but it does come under the "tax" portion of your bill.


Sounds like a tax to me.

You can cover it up, hide it, mislead people all you want... But it's designed to make the working people pay for phones for people who both cannot and choose not to work....
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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I'm going to assume you already read my post above responding to that table, pointing out that fact the the "hockey stick" effect starts in mid to late 2008, when the economy tanked, not in early 2009, when Obama took office. Either you read it and are repeating the same argument without acknowledging the point, or you didn't bother to read it.

Yes, claims for public benefits do increase during a recession. They will increase dramatically during a serious recession. This isn't news.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,463
15,290
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Sounds like a tax to me.

You can cover it up, hide it, mislead people all you want... But it's designed to make the working people pay for phones for people who both cannot and choose not to work....

Yes, lots of things sound like taxes. The upgrade fee carriers charge when you upgrade your phone and renew your contract sounds like a tax to some people as well.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,438
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I think the point of the article is to show that these people designated to give out phones are encouraged to do so because their companies get more money.

Sure you are supposed to get only one phone. But there are not many checks and balances in this program it seems.

Agreed. The companies probably get paid based on phones\activations and I am guessing, as Dr. Pizza said, there are little to no penalties for the companies (in addition to the users) if they are found to have acted fraudulently\incompetently so why not see how many people you can get
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
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Yes, lots of things sound like taxes. The upgrade fee carriers charge when you upgrade your phone and renew your contract sounds like a tax to some people as well.

Some clarification is in order because the difference between a taxes and fees seems to be viewed as merely semantic by some people. A fee applies to people who voluntarily utilize a particular service. For example, in court there is a fee for filing a lawsuit, which in California is now about $400. If you never file a lawsuit, you'll never pay the fee. If you file 20, you'll pay it 20 times. This isn't a tax in any reasonable sense of the word.

I think the argument is made here that since the majority of people pay for telecom service, that this feels more like a tax. Kind of like that fee charged by the DMV for your driver's license. It's something that most people end up having to pay.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,463
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How is that different than a sales tax?

A sales tax is required by law on the sale of goods when consumers buy them. The fee is not required to be payed by the consumer nor is it a fee on a good or service, it's a cost passed on to consumers by telcos by choice.

If the cost of cellphones go up because manufactures now charge the carriers more for their products and the carriers pass that cost onto the consumer, one might and could consider that a tax but most people believe taxes are something that the government requires and cannot be avoided.
 
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