Journey to 3.5mm audio cable upgrade for MBP & A2 speakers- $1200 silver cable INSIDE

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cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
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So did you stop at the $1200 cable?
Yes.

What are you
Human

Not considered poor. At least I paid my credit card bill off.

Surely there is a more expensive cable that will sound more expensive than the one you have.
Ridge Street Audio. Synergistic Research is another. I said this before. Do you read?


Pay attention to the benefit of the cables used. This isn't exactly about who can buy more expensive stuff. You must like jumping to conclusion.


 
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cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
91
Here is the thing.

There is almost nobody else out there that has full 100% silver cable w/ FEB Air-tube running around with A2 speakers via analog connection. I am finding the clear (night and day) difference in sound quality / signature with the cable compare to other lesser cables.

And I said this clearly to you, if you guys / girls know how to read. The $200 full copper cable did better in a few areas in the tonality and detail in the low range in a few of the songs I have tested so far.
 
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cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
91
Interview with president Obama -

Question by Obama: So Sydney cable gave you warmer / comfort sound and a bit more detail in the lows. Don't most people like warm / comfort sound???

Answer: Well yeah. Many people find that pleasing to listen to. Me likey too.


Question by Obama: So why did you go with the Silver cable (Angel) then? Because it's expensive? You like to show off?


Answer: Nope, not necessarily because it's more expensive, but because it excels in the highs and overall dynamics. While I love the way the Sydney cable produces its sound in low end details there will be times when I wish it had more treble and details in the highs. The Angel also has more air and reflection which is one of the important features that I require. Does it mean the Sydney cable sound absorbent? Heck no. It gave me good details but wasn't reflective, and like I said, the treble is not as strong as the Angel.



[redacted]

cheez, you have crossed a major line. This is a technical forum and we expect far better out of you guys
-ViRGE
 
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mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
Well, my mind has officially been blown. I'd ask for the OP to contribute to my mortgage down-payment fund, but I figure it's best to abort this thread before it goes nova.
 

dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,071
2
81
I never said it will make treble clearer. Are you trying to be dumb?
I am actually planning to apply two more coats of wax. I might pickup a primer too.

I never said it removed ticks and pops from my macbook. I knew those pops weren't going to go away. What I was after was the sound quality differences in the music. It's not my fault that you can't afford a nice cable. No need to try blame on the other guy because you can't get one, nor can you hear any differences. You can't afford such things, go find a better job.

So.. I'm gay

I don't care what you are... it's not my business. lol.


Nope, I paid $1178 after tax, IIRC.

Good boy.

It's $13 and change.

No you are not being trolled. This is real.
Me? f'ed in the head? Nope. Far..................... from it. I am serious.

The waxing is serious, too. I did that to apply extra protection and better appearance. But I do agree. Some people will find this trolling.

Modifying quotes childishly? Stay classy.
Sorry I don't have a copy of all your receipts.. Nit pick away.
Being able to afford expensive things isnt a problem for me. Being stupid about wasting money is. Each to their own though.

So sad.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
It's the question of how the signal will be transferred from external DAC to the speakers. And keep in mind that cables not only reduce noise / jitter but it causes different sound signatures. It's not that simple as just taking care of "internally".
Good DACs will generally have (1) a buffered clock, that synchronizes with the input clock, so the DAC's output is nice and even, with each cycle being an average of that of the input over time, (2) use very high internal sample rates, which effectively turns jitter into no more than a fraction-of-a-dB of white noise, (c) both of the prior items, or (d) be extremely true to the incoming signal's clock, bit rate, and bit depth, and generally make a big point about that, so you know that if you want to go crazy spending on said DAC, you should also spend on a dedicated quality transport.

This is, actually, a good question. I'm glad you asked this.

I was listening to a track "Somewhere" by July artist and I was just trying to enjoy the music but the low tone cello note popped out of the speakers. This instrument was very very faint with the generic cable. With the Sydney cable it came right up close to my face and kind of distracted me from music listening. The cello presence was so strong it came in front of the piano. With the generic cable this note was far, far behind the piano instrument. I was like wtf..... I wondered myself, did the song change? It's the same song. But I was surely amazed with the immense difference. It's not just a little, it's HUGE. Gigantic. And I am not exaggerating on this one. This also took out my silver cable. Scary stuff.
With better speakers, and a calibrated EQ, I might even believe it.

Well, my mind has officially been blown. I'd ask for the OP to contribute to my mortgage down-payment fund, but I figure it's best to abort this thread before it goes nova.
The OP is no Patrick82, but is it that bad?
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
Not familiar with the Patrick82 situation but yeah, $1200 for a 1.5m audio cable is insane.

I work in television so I have some idea of what equipment costs. As I said, you can buy a 1000 foot spool of professional triax for that much. Tirax is the broadcast equivalent to HDMI. It's used to transmit uncompressed, high fidelity audio and video streams. I'm highly skeptical of any consumer device that costs more than professional equipment.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Not familiar with the Patrick82 situation
Aw, you've missed out, then. You can go here, then on the left, to "threads started." AT couldn't handle the brackets in the search URL itself. Most of the pictures are gone, now, too, which will take away some of the humor. He liked to add oddball photos of the gear, graphs, and things like that, too.

I'm highly skeptical of any consumer device that costs more than professional equipment.
For small amounts, it makes sense--whoever is selling it needs to make money, and consumer-level hifi audio is not a huge market. But, that's why it's easy to find $500 DACs. The gross profit margins often have to be hundreds of percent for small operations, once they go beyond the level of trying to make a hobby pay for itself. A great deal of good gear would be 1/4 or less the price, if the market were larger.

So, if you're not into soldering or crimping yourself, paying for the parts, labor, and service availability can make sense, even on cables, if you have the want or need. If I were to offer such a service, instead of just doing it to have good perfect-length cables for my own use, I'd probably need to charge $20+ per cable, just to make it worth doing even as a hobby effort. Blue Jean cable, FI, is probably the largest outfit making custom cables, and they don't shy away from charging real money (which is generally under 5% of what the OP's cables cost).

But then, of course, there's snake oil. Some people are fond of it.
 

McWatt

Senior member
Feb 25, 2010
405
0
71
I'm glad you like your new cable, but I think you might have a moderate problem. I've done some waveguiding calculations based on the composition gradient at the conductor-insulator interface and realized that you're almost certainly introducing a poison pill problem based on harmonics between pseudo-adjacent continuous evanescent fields. In short, I'm sure your cable is only giving you about 50% of the benefit it could in an ideal situation - every high frequency tone is producing a subtle warble for up to 10 ms when it cuts off. It might be hard to hear, but it's definitely in the range of human perception. Listen for it and you'll notice it, especially in crisp percussion.

You can actually compensate for the evanescent interference through an entirely analog method. You need to wrap the original cable in an appropriate conductor-insulator composite spool and then couple that to the audio input from your MBP. Given the run length of your cable, I'm sure you could have such a system put together by an expert for less than $500.
 
Feb 25, 2011
16,823
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you must be trolling. no way you would use a $1200 cable with $200 speakers ($200 because of the convenience of integrated amp, at that)

This.

Incidentally, my $200 stereo speakers have a digital input. So I just run a $7 optical cable from the computer.

It's shielded by some kind of special thing that makes EMI not interfere with the optical signal. I think it's called "laws of physics."

I've heard enough shitty, fuzzy audio from computers that had crappy cables running along their AC lines that I can believe the OP. Could they have done just as well with a $50 cable? Probably.

But that's why audio engineers went all-digital. Fucking audiophiles, with their vacuum tubes and delusions about 'warm' vacuum tubes and painting the edges of their CDs green.

I think the $1200 vs. $150 cable will be a diminishing returns issue.
 

alfa147x

Lifer
Jul 14, 2005
30,061
103
106
This.

Incidentally, my $200 stereo speakers have a digital input. So I just run a $7 optical cable from the computer.

It's shielded by some kind of special thing that makes EMI not interfere with the optical signal. I think it's called "laws of physics."

I've heard enough shitty, fuzzy audio from computers that had crappy cables running along their AC lines that I can believe the OP. Could they have done just as well with a $50 cable? Probably.

But that's why audio engineers went all-digital. Fucking audiophiles, with their vacuum tubes and delusions about 'warm' vacuum tubes and painting the edges of their CDs green.

I think the $1200 vs. $150 cable will be a diminishing returns issue.

You;re right TOSLINK cables cables won't be affected EMI (Electromagnetic interference). They would have to be extremely high powered electromagnetic waves to even cause a slight amount of damage to the sound quality. Which wouldn't be direct either. The S/PDIF signal that is being carried by your optical cable is a digital signal. On the receiving end it will receive some error correction. That is where the degradation of audio-quality. jitter is generally the biggest issue and that is caused by the source clock. I have yet to here a bad source via S/PDIF. Some people claim they can hear it. Meh.
I just use monoprice digital coaxial cables to my DAC and RCA interconnects to my amp.

Valve (tube) amplifier:
They're not for everyone. The "warm" sound is not delusion. It's a form of distortion that some audiophiles enjoy. Many of today's guitar amps use a tube stage. Why? Because it affects the sound. Some people don't like the "warm" feel. For them MOSFET driven Class A amps are perfect.

You also can't "go digital" with audio since at the heart of it it's still an analog signal to your speakers. Between your DAC and power amp you can't use a digital connection.

wtf $200 speakers + $1200 cables. That's funny.
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
equally hilarious is the included-in-the-box 16awg wire going from left speaker to right speaker.

also the fact that once the 1/8 cable is plugged into the speaker, there is no doubt some crap wire taking it from the input to the internal amp.
 

cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
91
^ the speaker wire will be upgraded for the A2 speakers later down the road.


UPDATE: After 50 hours of burnin on the Angel cable -

The sound is incredible. I'm like literally crying. Seriously.

Ridiculously incredible sound. The harshness / edginess is virtually gone btw.

This cable is worth every-single-penny to me. $1200 well spent.


While the Sydney cable would have given me good low end I realized it will eventually run out of steam. The Angel has much much more headroom (high extensions and details + wider soundstage).

The Sydney was shipped back a couple of days ago for a refund.
 
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sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
Awesome, glad you like it. But at this point, the weakness in your setup is the physical connection in the 3.5mm female in the laptop to the 3.5mm male on the cable. It's a fairly weak mechanical connection and you're limited to the materials that go into the 3.5mm jack built into your Macbook. Have you considered taking the end off of the cable and soldering directly to the PCB output traces? Otherwise, you have a $1200 silver cable terminating on a $0.25 female aluminum/copper jack... at both ends.
 

Zorander

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2010
1,143
1
81
Awesome, glad you like it. But at this point, the weakness in your setup is the physical connection in the 3.5mm female in the laptop to the 3.5mm male on the cable. It's a fairly weak mechanical connection and you're limited to the materials that go into the 3.5mm jack built into your Macbook. Have you considered taking the end off of the cable and soldering directly to the PCB output traces? Otherwise, you have a $1200 silver cable terminating on a $0.25 female aluminum/copper jack... at both ends.
And the same goes for the internal connection of the A2. You will also need to re-wire the female/input jack that connects to the internal amp (undoubtedly using stock wires).
 

cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
91
You also can't "go digital" with audio since at the heart of it it's still an analog signal to your speakers. Between your DAC and power amp you can't use a digital connection.
Finally you said something right. I am impressed. That is very correct.

Unfortunately even the digital lines carry high levels of jitter due to the electrical noise coming from the computer devices.


wtf $200 speakers + $1200 cables. That's funny.
If it was the other way around ($1200 speaker w/ $200 cable) it would have been ordinary typical boring setup. This is an unique setup and attracts the crowd. That is one of the reasons why I decided to go this route.
 
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cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
91
Awesome, glad you like it. But at this point, the weakness in your setup is the physical connection in the 3.5mm female in the laptop to the 3.5mm male on the cable. It's a fairly weak mechanical connection and you're limited to the materials that go into the 3.5mm jack built into your Macbook. Have you considered taking the end off of the cable and soldering directly to the PCB output traces? Otherwise, you have a $1200 silver cable terminating on a $0.25 female aluminum/copper jack... at both ends.
And the same goes for the internal connection of the A2. You will also need to re-wire the female/input jack that connects to the internal amp (undoubtedly using stock wires).
Good points.

Thanks for the comment, sjwaste & Zorander. Funny thing you mentioned about the quality of the physical connections' 3.5mm input and output. Yes, I had thought about it before. That's why I was a bit worried that I may not gain much in SQ when I did the cable upgrade. But fortunately, the sound quality gain is incredible. Biggest jump from generic to the Sydney for unexpected low end detail. And increased highs with detail and reflection with the Angel. The difference of the sound is very distinctive. Now if those physical connectors were made of professional / studio grade? I'm sure the resulting sound would have been better I agree. I am more shocked with the huge jump in sound with Sydney out of my little dinky "A2" speakers.


.
 
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zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
10/10 would read again. Also if you truly only listen to 120 songs, you need to find some new music.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Good points.

Thanks for the comment, sjwaste & Zorander. Funny thing you mentioned about the quality of the physical connections' 3.5mm input and output. Yes, I had thought about it before. That's why I was a bit worried that I may not gain much in SQ when I did the cable upgrade. But fortunately, the sound quality gain is incredible. Biggest jump from generic to the Sydney for unexpected low end detail. And increased highs with detail and reflection with the Angel. The difference of the sound is very distinctive. Now if those physical connectors were made of professional / studio grade? I'm sure the resulting sound would have been better I agree. I am more shocked with the huge jump in sound with Sydney out of my little dinky "A2" speakers.


.

You also need to replace all of the crappy non-directional wire inside the speakers with oxygen-free directional wire.
 
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