Journey to 3.5mm audio cable upgrade for MBP & A2 speakers- $1200 silver cable INSIDE

[cheez]

Didn't think the analog 3.5mm headphone port on the Macbook pro has this much potential in sound.

As some of you know I had tried an external DAC (D1 DAC) in the past, to connect to MBP via USB connection and I didn't like the result. It was a clear downgrade in sound for me.

Well, I found the path to the right upgrade now.

I bought an AudioQuest Bridges & Falls - Sydney 3.5mm-to-3.5mm male cable to connect from MBP's headphone port to the Audioengine A2 speakers.

The cable is directional. See arrow pointing from output of source to the input of the speaker.

The sound is astounding, almost undescribable.
Let's just say, it's the best desktop audio system I have ever heard up to date. You don't have to have external DAC.

AudioQuest Sydney + Audioengine A2 speakers = The Bomb


Here is my interview with news reporter:

Question: How was the sound before the cable upgrade?

Answer: Grrrrreattttt! At least I thought it was great. Thanks goes to A2 speakers and professional onboard MBP sound chip.


Question: Well then what's the sound like after the cable upgrade?

Answer: The musical instruments are more transparent. First, there definitely is reduction in noise and harshness. If too much noise is reduced you would figure it would sound fat and a little soft or muddy right? Nope. The treble shines even higher. One of the biggest differences was the other instruments of sound were popping out of nowhere that I could barely hear or not hear them at all before the upgrade. They are almost like coming behind my speakers, increasing depth / space. There is more detail across the entire band and the dynamic range has increased. As mentioned earlier the harshness is decreased, like the distortion in the highs. I had a few songs with vocals and at the very top end the slight bit of distortion was inhibited before the upgrade. But after the upgrade it's virtually non-existent. I was very pleased for the result. The distortion was one of the biggest things I worried about.

Question: Based on your experience, how does this compare to the external D1 DAC you had, via USB?

Answer: I am seeing HUGE increase in overall sound quality compared to the external DAC route I had tried in the past. The sound from D1 DAC via USB gave me fat, absorbent sound and had no improvement in transparency and detail. The one straight from the MBP's headphone port provided better sound.

Interesting to note that on *some* of the compressed MP3's I was able to hear more faults in sound. Since it does good at bringing details it's detecting more sound artifacts from the poorly encoded MP3's. This is only a few of the songs I have though. I only have about 120 songs and majority of them are lossless straight from CDs, the rest are 320kbps MP3's. I only kept my most favorite songs so I listen to them almost everyday over and over so I know exactly how they sound. It was easy for me to hear the differences in sound since the upgrade.


I am amazed at the potential these A2 speakers have, and how much impact it can have on the cables you use to connect. I didn't think I was going to get this much of gain in performance, more like shocking.

I've got this cable a few days ago. Does analog audio cable need a burn-in?


And I believe some of the readers will find this info useful as there are a lot of people out there skimp on cables. If there are other audio gurus with their high-performance cables to share with, post away your experiences.

This shenanigan has gone on long enough. It's time to let it rest.
-ViRGE

 

[mmntech]

A directional 3.5mm male to male audio cable? That's a new one on me. I'm sure it's your speakers and not the cable. The DACs built into Macbooks are pretty decent. Part of what a lot of pros use them. External DACs can be hit or miss and are largely unnecessary for non-pros.

Allow me to qualify myself. I'm a broadcast professional who has run his fair share of cables. Thicker, low resistance analogue cables do help, especially on long runs. AudioQuest doesn't say what the wire gauge is. A $150 cable (for 0.6M no less) is going to do dick all IMHO. Copper is copper. It's just too short a run to make an audible difference. I hate to say it, but I think you got ripped off my friend. Try it with a basic (cheaper) cable like these $3.55 "professional" ones from Monoprice. If you get the same results, return the AudioQuest and get your money back. I guarantee the cheaper ones will sound as good.

 

[cheez]

A directional 3.5mm male to male audio cable?

Yep.

AudioQuest doesn't say what the wire gauge is. A $150 cable (for 0.6M no less) is going to do dick all IMHO. Copper is copper. It's just too short a run to make an audible difference. I hate to say it, but I think you got ripped off my friend. Try it with a basic (cheaper) cable like these $3.55 "professional" ones from Monoprice. If you get the same results, return the AudioQuest and get your money back. I guarantee the cheaper ones will sound as good.

The cable I used previously was the one supplied by Audioengine manufacturer. Since the upgrade to the Sydney, I am hearing the immediate difference, especially the presence of the musical instruments that I could barely hear before, or not hear them at all. If it didn't make any difference I would not have posted this, and like you have said, would have returned it. I am afraid it's more to it than just "copper is copper". If it's copper is copper and give you same sound no other cable specialty companies even bother making better cables...

Keep in mind, I used to listen to these same songs over and over for several months before the upgrade, so I know exactly how they sound. I'm a nearfield listener btw.

The 1.5m is $200 btw.

 

[PhoenixEnigma]

Ah, the placebo effect. Moderately effective, but often pricey.

When you can tell the difference between a $15 cable and a $150 one in a blind ABX test, let me know.

 

[cheez]

Ah, the placebo effect. Moderately effective, but often pricey.

When you can tell the difference between a $15 cable and a $150 one in a blind ABX test, let me know.

It isn't the placebo effect. I am really hearing the difference. Like I have said earlier, I had been using the manufacturers supplied cable for listening for several months, with same songs that I listen to all the time. With the cable upgrade I am hearing the immediate difference.

My test is just as good as blind test if not better... And when you do blind test, you will want to have same person (you) hear them for comparison.

 

[cheez]

Don't get me wrong, the A2 speakers are great speakers and are known for putting out great details of the music. I too thought using the generic descent quality 3.5mm cable supplied by the manufacturer would be sufficient enough to max out A2's potential. Well when I replaced it with the Sydney cable ($180) it took my A2's to a new level. For a moment I thought I was listening to a different set of speakers. The one with generic cable had more noise and distortion in the same songs too. This one has more focus and is more transparent. I noticed more details in the lows too, surprisingly. Something I didn't expect also.

 

[Zorander]

I used to play around with audio cables up to the $200-300 mark. I found they typically present slightly different sound/character (irrespective of cost) and, beyond the $100 mark, are way past the point of diminishing return. I started assembling my own cable or simply soldering bulk audio cable (vampire, Cardas, Van den Hul, etc) to RCA plugs to get the best value out of this. It has been fun and there are indeed differences but I stand by my belief that audio cables need not be expensive to do a good job of transmitting signal.

It's quite a different story with DAC, amps and transducers however.

 

[cheez]

^ Thanks for your experiences with the differences in sound. I know I am hearing the differences as I said earlier. It is not a delusion. I can tell you that right now. It is not just the clarity and tone of the sound but hearing details popping out of the speakers is what struck me. Yes, I am comparing against the generic cable supplied by Audioengine speakers, not the D1 DAC I tried in the past.

I beg to differ though, in regards to transmitting signal. Having good conductivity is important, but there is timing to worry about in respect to audio quality. Another big factor is the electrical noise being carried when the signals are being sent. Electrical noise turns in to distortion in the sound. You also lose accuracy. Also the insulation of the cable has impact in sound. Most cables with insulation *absorbs* energy (electrical noise) and carry to the input of the speakers. It's a lot more complicated than just having good connection on the cable.

 

[cheez]

For the last few days in my initial impression I have listened about 10 songs repetitively... Some of them are rock with lots of drum beats. And some with guitar. It's already giving me more space to the music. It's not loud and powerful as it's limited by speakers output, but the quality of the sound puts this A2 to another level. The drum beats in say "Dance Away" by Roxette, provides one of the tastiest treble sounds I have ever heard. They also peak higher, effortlessly. Cleaner crisper and more air. It sounds like coming from a larger studio, definitely has more space. I was awed by it. The treble sounds beautiful. The A2 by nature does have pretty good tasting treble (when the treble range is pushed by some songs) but this puts to a step higher. The other song with guitar strings were more defined, as if it came closer toward me while the other musical instruments held their positions well. Basically, just about every elements of instruments are defined more clearly. But man.... that treble is so damn tasty. You know, would you like an apple that's ripe or unripe? Ripe, right? It tastes better. How about an orange? You like it sour? or more sweet? This is how this setup is described. It's got very pleasing tasty treble.

But like I said earlier, the details of sound elements popping out of my speakers when playing songs with low range is what surprised me. So not only does it shine in the highs but it does better in the lows too. On top of having clear and clean sound it is providing me "sweeter" sound.

 

[metril]

Placebo effect. Unconsciously, you are trying to justify your purchase. USB DACs are better than most built-in sound chipsets. The problem with built-in is that they share a common ground with the rest of the laptop. Hence, the built-in is susceptible to feedback from the rest of the system. Ever hear a chain of pops or stuttering from your laptop speakers? That is due to feedback.

USB ports usually have the ground right from the power circuitry or go through a set of power filters. Hence, USB is not as susceptible to feedback. Also, USB DAC signal quality depends on the amps and other components used. If any one of the components is of low quality, the entire signal is affected.

Cables cannot improve signal quality unless the cable resistance is extremely low. It takes a large difference in resistance between cables for an oscilloscope to show a human noticeable (change in the wave on the screen) change in the signal.

Now, the lower the source signal strength, the more important the cabling. However, you would need to get into the picoamps to see this effect.

 

[cheez]

Placebo effect.

I said it over and over, that it's not a placebo effect I'm having. Result is that the music sounds different, almost like a different song, of course depending on the source too. Not saying all songs sound different due to the variance of the recording and encoding quality.

Unconsciously, you are trying to justify your purchase.

Nope. I'm not worried about the money I paid for. It sounds really different to me. What can I say. You also gotta keep in mind that everyone of us has different capability of hearing. Some are more sensitive to certain type of sounds than others. There is no set standard.

USB DACs are better than most built-in sound chipsets. The problem with built-in is that they share a common ground with the rest of the laptop. Hence, the built-in is susceptible to feedback from the rest of the system. Ever hear a chain of pops or stuttering from your laptop speakers? That is due to feedback.

Granted. I am not saying USB DAC is worse than the analog cable upgrade (3.5mm & RCA). The external DAC does better job separating the electrical noise from the system as it's outside of the computer device. D1 DAC just wasn't it for me, the sound signature it generated didn't cut for me. Does that mean all external DACs suck? Of course no.

USB ports usually have the ground right from the power circuitry or go through a set of power filters. Hence, USB is not as susceptible to feedback.

Please note that USB DAC's also suffer from noise / jitter. The jitter is analog and it's everywhere. There is no way to get away with it completely. Sure, the high-end $1000+(even as high as $10 grand) DAC will help make sound reprocessing as closer to the original source of the recording and it has its own way of help filtering noise. How are you going to transfer that signal to the speakers though? Cheap cable will take some noise with it and throw out as distortion or cause inaccuracy in the music. This is why upgrading USB cable for the USB DAC is also necessary... You will get different qualities of sound, depending on the cable used.

Cables cannot improve signal quality unless the cable resistance is extremely low. It takes a large difference in resistance between cables for an oscilloscope to show a human noticeable (change in the wave on the screen) change in the signal.

I think what matters is in the result of the sound reproduction. And as I said earlier, it's not about just "signal quality". Good connection will carry over electrical noise just that much better too. The first thing that will do is it will affect the timing, which then turns in to distortion as a result.

 

[ubercaffeinated]

I am afraid it's more to it than just "copper is copper". If it's copper is copper and give you same sound no other cable specialty companies even bother making better cables...

The 1.5m is $200 btw.

This is the same thing seen on head-fi with silver and gold cable "upgrades".

If you're hearing a difference and you've done a blinded ABX test, and you still hear a difference, it's likely that the cable/manufacturer put in some amount of resistance into the interconnect, altering your highs or mids or something. Who knows.

The debate is endless on head-fi, but objectively speaking, if there is no measured difference, then there is no difference.

 

[cheez]

You can't magically have electrical noise and jitter disappear. You just can't beat mother nature. It is the most powerful thing that exists.

 

[metril]

You can't magically have electrical noise and jitter disappear. You just can't beat mother nature. It is the most powerful thing that exists.

Glad you agree.

I never said USB doesn't suffer from jitter. Rather, USB is less affected by jitter.

You can try to justify your cable all you want. Science has proven otherwise. The rest is just marketing and placebo. Let's not drag this out any further.

If you ever get a chance. Take any cheap 3.5mm interconnect and the cable you bought. Send different frequency sine waves through the cable and compare the source and sink signals with an oscilloscope. You won't see any difference between the two cables. If you can do this and this proves me and everyone else here wrong, then you can keep flaunting your cable. Otherwise, it's all hearsay. But please, don't try to convince people using a baseless argument.

Also, human hearing cannot tell the difference between small frequency changes. Your ears do not have the ability to decipher the "tasteful" sound from the "bitter" sound. Rather, all that is your brain trying to compensate. Your ears can tell the difference between the absence and presence of a sound. They tell the difference in amplitude (strength or decibel) of a sound. They can tell the difference in bandwidth (range of frequencies) of a sound. But, human ears cannot tell the difference between 1001 Hz and 1002 Hz, etc.

It is possible that your new cable has a higher impedance. That could be why you find the new cable better. Higher impedance acts like a filter; making it hard for low amplitude (low power) signals to cross the resistance barrier. And if this is the reason, which I am sure it is, then you have overpaid for something you could have gotten for as little as $1.00. Look up attenuators.

 

[ubercaffeinated]

Glad you agree.
It is possible that your new cable has a higher impedance. That could be why you find the new cable better. Higher impedance acts like a filter; making it hard for low amplitude (low power) signals to cross the resistance barrier. And if this is the reason, which I am sure it is, then you have overpaid for something you could have gotten for as little as $1.00. Look up attenuators.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. 25-50 ohms and bam, listener hears something different.

 

[Zorander]

I beg to differ though, in regards to transmitting signal. Having good conductivity is important, but there is timing to worry about in respect to audio quality. Another big factor is the electrical noise being carried when the signals are being sent. Electrical noise turns in to distortion in the sound. You also lose accuracy. Also the insulation of the cable has impact in sound. Most cables with insulation *absorbs* energy (electrical noise) and carry to the input of the speakers. It's a lot more complicated than just having good connection on the cable.

That's another, longer way of saying 'transmitting signal well'.

As long as the cable is properly shielded and grounded (with good conductor cores), it will do a good job. It makes even more sense over very long runs (5m+) and in electronically noisy environments (cable running next to transformers, for example) but this does not seem to be the case for you. I'd like to think the MBP has very little internal noise too as otherwise the cable will faithfully transmit that noise to the speakers.

You're also comparing a stock cable (regardless of where it came from) against an aftermarket cable. I assure you it's not as easy comparing aftermarket cables against each others (esp. once you mentally 'forget' the RRP of each) and hence why I think a $50-100 cable from a decent manufacturer will be good enough for most of us.

Nonetheless, enjoy your new cable. The good thing about investing money in audio stuff is that they don't go obsolete in time, unlike PC components. That $200 video card you buy today will be effectively worthless and powerless in 5 years time whereas the cable will still be doing its job well in the same time. I know because I'm still using a lot of the cables I bought nearly 10 years ago.

Cheers!

 

[cheez]

Recap on specs:

• Polyethylene Air-Tubes construction around the conductor
• Carbon-Based 3-Layer Noise-Dissipation System - Foil/carbon-layer/foil
• Solid Perfect-Surface Copper+(PSC+) ultra high purity conductor
• Direct-Silver Plated Pure Purple-Copper 3.5mm plugs
• Double-Balanced Asymmetrical Geometry
• Asymmetrical conductor sizes ensure chassis-to-chassis ground has lower impedance than signal path.

No wonder.


The funny thing is I am getting one to two extra musical instruments out of the speakers that I didn't hear with the generic cable.


Considering how much of noticeable gain I am getting out of this silver-plated perfect-surface PSC+ cable just imagine what I could get out of full solid pure silver cable with FEP insulation and DB system? This is scary.




Well guess what.... the order has already been placed.


AudioQuest Bridges & Falls - Angel - 1.5m

Price taggie = $1200+


Dang, the longer ones go up to $9000.

Hopefully I will receive by the end of this week. This will be strictly for my Audioengine A2 speakers. I should be one of the very few users out there with similar setup in the world then.

If anyone else has other ultra-high end (Ridge Street Audio, Synergistic Research, etc) analog cables please post your experiences.



Spec:

• SOLID 100% PERFECT-SURFACE SILVER CONDUCTORS (PSS)
• FEP AIR-TUBE INSULATION (FEP is a Fluoro-Polymer)
• DIELECTRIC-BIAS SYSTEM (DBS, US Pat #s 7,126,055 & 7,872,195 B1)
• CARBON-BASED 3-LAYER NOISE-DISSIPATION SYSTEM (NDS)
• DOUBLE-BALANCED ASYMMETRICAL GEOMETRYCOLD-WELDED DIRECT-SILVER PLATED PURE "RED-COPPER" RCA PLUGS

Stay tuned....?

 

[cheez]

You're also comparing a stock cable (regardless of where it came from) against an aftermarket cable. I assure you it's not as easy comparing aftermarket cables against each others (esp. once you mentally 'forget' the RRP of each)

Good post. Yes, I actually agree. I was comparing against the stock cable, which I believe is no better than some generic cable. Aftermarket Vs. Aftermarket would be tough to compare like you said.

and hence why I think a $50-100 cable from a decent manufacturer will be good enough for most of us.

Again, I agree with you. Just because I like the cable I should not force everyone to go spend $200 on a cable for most users. And everyone has different priorities and don't have the same taste in hearing. Not saying one is inferior to others, it's the preference. So no set rule.

Nonetheless, enjoy your new cable. The good thing about investing money in audio stuff is that they don't go obsolete in time, unlike PC components. That $200 video card you buy today will be effectively worthless and powerless in 5 years time whereas the cable will still be doing its job well in the same time. I know because I'm still using a lot of the cables I bought nearly 10 years ago.

Cheers!

Amen... thanks.

 

[PhoenixEnigma]

$1200??

I hear audio sounds really awesome if you send it through a girder bridge, and it just so happens I have one for sale, if you're interested....

 

[cheez]

I hear audio sounds really awesome if you send it through a girder bridge, and it just so happens I have one for sale, if you're interested....

Don't know about that. But when I receive mine (hopefully by Friday of this week) we will have photoshoot. Then slap it on and play. It'll be a busy weekend.

 

[vshah]

you must be trolling. no way you would use a $1200 cable with $200 speakers ($200 because of the convenience of integrated amp, at that)

 

[mugs]

lol

 

[jpeyton]

It's a known fact that AudioQuest's FEP Air Tubes use the most effective, and expensive, insulator known to man: air.

 

[Kirby64]

lol



 

[cheez]

Guys and girls,

At first I was a bit pissed because the supplier wouldn't tell me if it got shipped out. No confirmation no nothing. I ordered it last Monday.

Got a reply from the supplier that the cable is being drop shipped from the manufacturer (AudioQuest), that was just yesterday!! So since the vendor didn't even receive the thing there would be no chance getting that shipped out this week!

Well today when I got home from work there was a FedEx sticky on my door. Says to pick it up after 6:30 PM. Wtf... is it a cable??:ninja: They are way off on the shipping confirmation I tell ya. :whiste: Drove down there to pick my hot babe (silver cable) up.

Got home.

What next? Wash my hands.

Photoshoot!!!!!


:$

p.s. they didn't even charge the shipping fee and it appears it must had been shipped via FedEx 2nd day or something. I only paid for the cost of the cable - $1195.00