Judge blocks Fla.'s new welfare drug testing law

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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
The issue is the folks who are druggies tend to have no ethics at all. Do you think a coke head would feel bad about hustling $100 of his free welfare money and trading it for $80 of real US bills ? Hell no, they dont care at all and it happens all the time. Thats one of the problems, welfare money is as good as cash as long as its used on selected items, so they DO find people who will trade them real money for their welfare cash. They take the traded real money and buy drugs with it.

Bottomline is, if you want assistance and handouts for having a hard time in life you should accept that there are conditions that come with that...A drug test is not asking much at all considering the reason for it is to not misuse the assistance they receive.

Surely you mean crack and not coke.

Coke is a rich persons drug. As is high end marijuana.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
oh boy here we go. health insurance has become the go to for every thing now as an excuse for an employer to stick their nose into private business. either conform or no health insurance for you!!!!


as an employer, how exactly will somebody smoking a joint increase your health insurance?

[edit]I had a response for you, but realized you wouldn't understand it.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
good people aren't dopers.

That Steve Jobs, he wasn't a good person-he was a doper. I don't get all of the support for drug testing. It is an invasion of privacy, justified by the possible benefit to society. Why do all of these righties favor invasions of privacy? You would think that righties would oppose big government (and business) intrusions into people's lives ?
Years ago, on an aircraft carrier, one of the chiefs complained that the newly instituted drug testing in the Navy had gotten rid of many of his most competent sailors, and all he was left with was the alcoholics.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Years ago, on an aircraft carrier, one of the chiefs complained that the newly instituted drug testing in the Navy had gotten rid of many of his most competent sailors, and all he was left with was the alcoholics.

Many years ago as in 1984 the Navy instituted random drug testing. I saw the Navy get rid of people who put their own needs ahead of the safety of their shipmates. Accident rates dropped by a good amount after the first sweep. Never saw an increase in alcohol abuse or alcoholics in the Navy after the random drug testing began.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I was kicked out of the navy cuz of body fat percentage. I got an excellent on the run. Outstanding on push ups and sit ups. Gone anyway.
Bush needed to slash the military budget and lord knows he wasnt gonna cancel any of those overpriced government contracts, so they cut personnel.
Secretary of the Navy figured easiest way was body fat.

A SHITLOAD of fine technicians and hard workers were let go in a 6 month period. Most of them cost assloads of money to recruit and train.

Navy doesnt always make the best decisions, is my point. The zero tolerance drug policy just costs money. A lot guys just take their advanced training and use it to get nice civilian jobs. Heck some guys deliberately do drugs just to get out and start their civilian careers a couple years early. Two years of free nuclear engineering training is totally worth an Other Than Honorable if your only goal is a good paycheck. Or advanced electronics. Or a bunch of other programs that cost the Navy tons of money to push people through.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I don't know of many nuclear power plants that will hire someone with an other than honorable discharge. Specially for drug abuse. Employees must pass background checks (police and military records), psychological evaluation, and drug testing to get a job. The employees are subject to random drug testing as well.

Contractors and service companies employees must have active drug testing programs in place to work in the nuclear power plants. To work in the plant a psychological evaluation is required too. You will also be subject to a random drug test while working in the plant.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,653
10,517
136
I was kicked out of the navy cuz of body fat percentage. I got an excellent on the run. Outstanding on push ups and sit ups. Gone anyway.
Bush needed to slash the military budget and lord knows he wasnt gonna cancel any of those overpriced government contracts, so they cut personnel.
Secretary of the Navy figured easiest way was body fat.

A SHITLOAD of fine technicians and hard workers were let go in a 6 month period. Most of them cost assloads of money to recruit and train.

Navy doesnt always make the best decisions, is my point. The zero tolerance drug policy just costs money. A lot guys just take their advanced training and use it to get nice civilian jobs. Heck some guys deliberately do drugs just to get out and start their civilian careers a couple years early. Two years of free nuclear engineering training is totally worth an Other Than Honorable if your only goal is a good paycheck. Or advanced electronics. Or a bunch of other programs that cost the Navy tons of money to push people through.

Yep, they got rid of alot of good people during that period. Now, you should see some of the puss gut chiefs they have around these days. Kinda, like it was 25 years ago.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Many years ago as in 1984 the Navy instituted random drug testing. I saw the Navy get rid of people who put their own needs ahead of the safety of their shipmates. Accident rates dropped by a good amount after the first sweep. Never saw an increase in alcohol abuse or alcoholics in the Navy after the random drug testing began.

22 out of about 300 people in our battalion received Article 15's for drugs after returning from deployment, quite a few more slipped through the net. A lot of those guys were great soldiers, and were punished for getting high on leave, it was pretty ridiculous. What's truly ridiculous about it, is that about 10% of new privates wind up naked downtown, or running to the gate at 05:55 for formation drunk, and that's just fine and dandy.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Quite a few good soldiers also died in Vietnam from being too high to understand they were in danger as well.

Fair point. But the drunk ones were just as dead.
Also, that war was run so poorly a lot of guys would have been massacred anyway.
But I often wonder how many would have made it back alive had they been sober and clear headed. And those guys would have had fewer issues once they integrated back into civilian life.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,682
7,181
136
Fair point. But the drunk ones were just as dead.
Also, that war was run so poorly a lot of guys would have been massacred anyway.
But I often wonder how many would have made it back alive had they been sober and clear headed. And those guys would have had fewer issues once they integrated back into civilian life.

Some of the guys in my squad/unit back in 'Nam used drugs just to keep from going insane. And there was never any question if they were fit to fight. I trusted these guys with my life and they never let me down, ever. Wierd huh?

On the transition back to the world, well, some had it easy like me (a non-user) and others never were the same guys after a tour or two in-country, users and non-users alike. Of course, the chronics got locked up and booted out, but there were very few of them from my unit and I think my unit was typical.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
76
Mandated drug testing for welfare recipients is idiotic, a waste of taxpayer money, and a fine example of classism. I'd go into more detail, but suffice to say anyone who bothers to learn anything about drug use rates (and drug use treatment) will agree.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Mandated drug testing for welfare recipients is idiotic, a waste of taxpayer money, and a fine example of classism. I'd go into more detail, but suffice to say anyone who bothers to learn anything about drug use rates (and drug use treatment) will agree.

So let's just stop giving out welfare money, right? At least you agree to that. Or at least allow those that are well to do draw welfare money to buy drugs, as well. Equal protection, right?
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
I was emphasising that passage because it has been used as the reason by government to provide welfare and other services/aid to less off. Argue what you will, but that is the facts as they are on the ground.

You cited the preamble to the U.S. Constitution, which isn't generally considered to be anything other than vague introductary language. I can't recall a single Supreme Court case which cites to the preamble alone as the basis for any specific federal power.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
LOL. Irony found.
You remember amphetamine, right? That's the one that causes mania and hallucinations. It's one of the drugs that will make you think you're being attacked by zombies. This effect was originally called "amphetamine psychosis" but it was later changed to "stimulant psychosis" because it happens with many stimulants that are not amphetamines.

I take amphetamines so I am more familiar than most. I have NEVER had hallucinations and can't think of anyone that has in the years I have taken them. Deprive people of sleep and they will hallucinate and it doesn't take adding any drugs to their system.

The problem with what you're saying is that roughly 100% of college students are druggies yet they don't seem to have any of these problems.
1 in 5 students admit to taking amphetamine and the rest lie about it. Trust me. I went to college.

People that are already hooked on drugs have no issue with it but don't try to tell me taking drugs is socially accepted because it isn't. The pressure from society that taking drugs is a bad thing is a big factor in people not using drugs. The number is not 100% of college students, it is far less than that. I went to college too and during a time when cocaine was the drug of choice this was right before crack became common and I can't think of anyone in the college that people knew was using drugs. Maybe it was just the requirements were too strict to get in then and people didn't want to risk losing what they had. Or maybe people had more self respect then.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
I take amphetamines so I am more familiar than most. I have NEVER had hallucinations and can't think of anyone that has in the years I have taken them. Deprive people of sleep and they will hallucinate and it doesn't take adding any drugs to their system.
The tricky part about amphetamine psychosis or mania is that you don't know you're high while it's happening. It seems real and it makes sense. I can think of a few times I bought a bunch of weird stuff because I had an idea, then the dexedrine wears off and I'm thinking "wtf was I doing?" Like one time I decided to move all of my data around between hard drives because I wanted the drives to be used a certain way. Certain files would go on this drive, other files go on that other drive, and do that for 5 hard drives. I had to format and reinstall Windows on the correct drive.



People that are already hooked on drugs have no issue with it but don't try to tell me taking drugs is socially accepted because it isn't.
I don't know. Almost every person I've nudged about drugs has responded in a positive way. I found out several people I've known for years were all into MDMA. One of my super innocent cute friends said she would like to try LSD some time. Pretty much all of my chemistry classmates smoked weed at one time or another. Most of my engineering classmates were a little too enthusiastic about drinking. I recently found out that damn near everyone I know has tried cocaine at some point. That one really surprised me because I thought cocaine was this rare drug that nobody does.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
So let's just stop giving out welfare money, right? At least you agree to that. Or at least allow those that are well to do draw welfare money to buy drugs, as well. Equal protection, right?

My main concern with mandatory drug testing of welfare recipients is the cost. As with most government programs, the drug testing program would likely become a bloated, expensive mess and accomplish little except costing taxpayers more money.
 
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