What? And I thought certain poster(s) from this forum kept saying Detroit is on the up and up. So much for that. Hope and change...forward...to the poor house, yo.
What medications are you taking? Nobody that thinks with a clear head can repeatedly do what you do. You continually twist what people say into something else in an attempt to show everybody how smart you feel you are. It got old a long, long time ago. Are you here because you wore your momma down to where she can't stand listening to it anymore or what?Have you ever actually looked at the costs in defined benefit plans vs. say, 401(k)?
Per dollar contributed, pensions provide much greater returns. Retirement accounts exist to maintain some standard of living after you stop working, and pension funds generally see much higher rates of return than individual 401(k) accounts due to lower fees, more institutional power, etc. The reason why companies are offloading pensions when possible is that if things go south the company is left holding the bag with a pension while with 401(k) the employees are screwed. It's not an expense thing, it's a risk thing.
If your goal is to be the best steward of taxpayer money possible, basically any large institution like a city should be using pensions instead of 401(k) contributions.
What medications are you taking? Nobody that thinks with a clear head can repeatedly do what you do. You continually twist what people say into something else in an attempt to show everybody how smart you feel you are. It got old a long, long time ago. Are you here because you wore your momma down to where she can't stand listening to it anymore or what?
Bernie Sanders is making noises about a presidential run. How about you volunteer to work for his campaign and you two can talk about strategies to turn the nation into Mother Russia II? I mean put that talent to work. Hopefully you'll get so busy that you won't have time for this place anymore. Maybe you can be his campaign manager. Bernie might take a real shine to you.
What medications are you taking? Nobody that thinks with a clear head can repeatedly do what you do. You continually twist what people say into something else in an attempt to show everybody how smart you feel you are. It got old a long, long time ago. Are you here because you wore your momma down to where she can't stand listening to it anymore or what?
Bernie Sanders is making noises about a presidential run. How about you volunteer to work for his campaign and you two can talk about strategies to turn the nation into Mother Russia II? I mean put that talent to work. Hopefully you'll get so busy that you won't have time for this place anymore. Maybe you can be his campaign manager. Bernie might take a real shine to you.
Is that for people that paid into social security or those that weren't required to?More details would be great. In CA your Teacher pension benefit is based on number of years of service. You all of a sudden don't get a great pension after 10 years of service. My Mom was a teacher in CA and worked for almost 42 years and she does have a great pension benefit but that was for 42 years of teaching. Also I believe there is also what they call a windfall provision which reduces a public employee pension if Social Security is also collected. So if you also qualify for say $800 a month in Social Security benefits and you take it you lose $800 a month in pension benefits. This really hits hard the people that switch careers in mid-life to start teaching.
Pension cuts need to be on the table. Did they really think they could just keep stealing from the taxpayer.
No link..but the local radio had Michigans AG on tonight. He said the state is going to protect the pensions. No idea how, but I can believe the state might step in. I mean if they can?
I'd be ok paying some extra tax for the next decade to help out the pensioners. They didn't make this mess.
Found a statement from the summer:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE96Q0A220130727?irpc=932
Michigans constitution protects those pensions. I'm all for cutting expenses but this is not the way.
Send me the tax bill. I'll pay it.
Everyone is liable for decades of the financial mismanagement. We all should have spoken up to demand that our political leaders take action. Especially those that reaped the rewards without demanding proprer contributions. They gladly stood by and lived in ignorant bliss. Now there is no other way out but to cut pension benefits.
Found a statement from the summer:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE96Q0A220130727?irpc=932
Michigans constitution protects those pensions. I'm all for cutting expenses but this is not the way.
Send me the tax bill. I'll pay it.
Do you live in MI?
Nice gesture but Detroit is in the hole of at least 16 BILLION dollars. Taxes would be very high to cover that much deficit.
Yes, but they were completely tangential to what I said. My point is that by their very nature, defined benefit pension plans are doomed to failure. I gave a brief, common language explanation and used a related example topical to the times we live in.You know, you could actually address the things he said in his post too.
That's right. It's happened in the private market and there is no reason that government workers at any level should be insulated from it. They are not better.Everyone is liable for decades of the financial mismanagement. We all should have spoken up to demand that our political leaders take action. Especially those that reaped the rewards without demanding proprer contributions. They gladly stood by and lived in ignorant bliss. Now there is no other way out but to cut pension benefits.
I'm talking the pensions. The other stuff they can figure out.
No matter what, the pensions are protected.
As long as you continue to give people money and things that make it possible for them not to have to work, they will not work. Your dog does not hunt for its food because it knows you will feed it. What is happening in Detroit and across the nation is not the result so much of human nature but of nature itself. You couldn't get them to attend school unless you bribed them. Then, some progressive feel-gooder would dictate that they didn't have to actually attend or even pass the class to collect the bribe. You know I'm right. Their policies create the situation, they continue to throw money at it until they are backed into a corner and then they blame it all on someone else.There is a core problem in Detroit that is larger than the economy - the people. One of the highest illiteracy rates on the planet exists there. Just how do you build an economy on that? One start might be to educate the uneducated, send them to school and teach them how to read and write. That is just a travesty that such a condition exists. Apparently leaders stopped caring about these people, and Detroit, in general, long ago.
That's right. It's happened in the private market and there is no reason that government workers at any level should be insulated from it. They are not better.
It sucks, it really, really sucks. As was said earlier, protect current pensioners to the greatest degree possible. They are more than likely dependent on that money. Current workers are going to have to take it in the ass. It's the harsh reality of the situation. The bigger question is will anything be learned from this and the answer is a resounding NO. As long as there are politicians looking to gain favor along with public funds at their fingertips problems such as these will exist. We are killing the golden goose. We know we're doing it but we continue to squeeze its neck tighter and tighter. We will get that which we deserve.
There is a core problem in Detroit that is larger than the economy - the people. One of the highest illiteracy rates on the planet exists there. Just how do you build an economy on that? One start might be to educate the uneducated, send them to school and teach them how to read and write. That is just a travesty that such a condition exists. Apparently leaders stopped caring about these people, and Detroit, in general, long ago.
The Medicare burden the feds sloughed off on the states is not going to help - no not one bit. We are in a time of great change. As I said earlier today and have said a number of times before. Sometimes to get what you want, you have to tear down what you have. We are being fundamentally transformed. He told us he was going to do this and he got elected to a second term. Will we sit by and watch it happen or will we fight back?The most likely scenario is an amendment to the bankruptcy laws that allow for states to declare bankruptcy. States will have no choice at their current debt obligation load. In Illinois' case the situation is even worse than Detroit with a $100B pension gap. Pensioners are going to get screwed with cents on the dollar. It took us decades to get into this mess and will take decades to get out. I can only imagine the economic devastation in the mean while.
You'll have no choice in the manner and I know you know this. Your money and my money will be taken from us and it will be squandered on politicians, their family members and union bosses. What's left will go to pensioners - the one's that chose to still pay dues out of their pensions.I'll pay to help the pensioners but not to inject more money into left wing money pits.