Jury Acquits Texas Man For Murder Of Escort Who Refused Sex

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Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
That would only work for me if he then turned the gun on himself, thus ridding the world of a thief and a crazed gunman in the same incident.

What evidence do you have to indicate that he was crazed? A woman just robbed him, and presumably being aware of Texas law he legally shot her. That's an emotionally charged situation, yes, but "crazed"?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
What evidence do you have to indicate that he was crazed? A woman just robbed him, and presumably being aware of Texas law he legally shot her. That's an emotionally charged situation, yes, but "crazed"?

Just because you can legally do it doesn't mean you should.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
What evidence do you have to indicate that he was crazed? A woman just robbed him, and presumably being aware of Texas law he legally shot her. That's an emotionally charged situation, yes, but "crazed"?

I'm sorry, but someone stealing $150 from you is a life lesson, not an opportunity to satisfy bloodlust. Compassion and forgiveness are better virtues to be in favor of than cold-blooded murder because someone made you look like an idiot.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I'm sorry, but someone stealing $150 from you is a life lesson, not an opportunity to satisfy bloodlust. Compassion and forgiveness are better virtues to be in favor of than cold-blooded murder because someone made you look like an idiot.

Wars have been started for less.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
63
91
Is there any more info on this guy? I'd imagine murdering a prostitute would have social and career consequences for most people. Hope the asshole at least got fired.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...r-murder-of-escort-who-refused-sex/?mobile=nc

A Texas jury acquitted a man for the murder of a woman he hired as an escort, after his lawyers claimed he was authorized to use deadly force because she refused sex.

And correctly so

Under Texas law, an individual is authorized to use deadly force to “retrieve stolen property at night,” and Gilbert’s lawyers cited that provision as justification for Gilbert’s action, reasoning that Frago had stolen $150 from him by taking his money without delivering sex.

Its the law
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,578
146
What evidence do you have to indicate that he was crazed? A woman just robbed him, and presumably being aware of Texas law he legally shot her. That's an emotionally charged situation, yes, but "crazed"?

why would you think he was aware of Texas law? I'm assuming this was his lawyers coming up with this defense--it's obviously a very creative interpretation of the listed statute, considering this involved an illegal activity.

my guess he was just your average crazed Texan out to shoot whatever he wanted, and obviously needed to lawyer up....due to the murder. This is just his lawyers doing their job.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,596
7,654
136
According to the article the jury would have had no choice but to acquit since his actions were actually justified under Texas law.

!@#$ me... if this is not an Onion article I'll have to formally declare Texas off limits.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
Escorts are against the law but shouldn't be.

Killing her was legal but shouldn't be.

Blah blah blah. In one thread people will say "I have no sympathy for you and your speeding ticket, the law was there and you broke it."

And then they'll argue "Yea, it was the law but it doesn't make it right"

Fucking hypocrisy of ATOT. Can't believe I'm sticking up for anything Texas does, but the bitch should of just given his $150 back.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
I wonder if his lawyer is a distant relative of Johnnie Cochran.

'IF THE BITCH MAKES YOU FROWN, GUN HER DOWN.'
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
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Can't believe I'm sticking up for anything Texas does, but the bitch should of just given his $150 back.

It's not hypocrisy, it's two wrongs not making a right. Stealing $150 is wrong. Killing an unarmed person is wrong. What she did doesn't justify his reaction. Both parties were in the wrong, but killing someone is a bit worse than stealing $150.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
It's not hypocrisy, it's two wrongs not making a right. Stealing $150 is wrong. Killing an unarmed person is wrong. What she did doesn't justify his reaction. Both parties were in the wrong, but killing someone is a bit worse than stealing $150.

The point is that he WASN'T in the wrong, per existing Texas law. If you feel the law is wrong and you live in Texas, work to change the law.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
This is why Texas is the greatest state in the land. She's probably been doing this for a while and others did not know the law. She met one that did.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
It's not hypocrisy, it's two wrongs not making a right. Stealing $150 is wrong. Killing an unarmed person is wrong. What she did doesn't justify his reaction. Both parties were in the wrong, but killing someone is a bit worse than stealing $150.

Why?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
The point is that he WASN'T in the wrong, per existing Texas law. If you feel the law is wrong and you live in Texas, work to change the law.

Since when does the phrase "in the wrong" apply only to legality? Do I really need to put the phrase "in my opinion" before stating that I think killing an unarmed person is wrong? That's a moral judgment, not a legal one. Morally, killing an unarmed person who is fleeing from you solely because they stole a small amount of money from you is wrong in my opinion. Does that clear things up?
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
many of you are caught up on the $150 part.

What if for some reason you keep all your money in cash instead of a bank. Lets say you had $50,000 stashed away and someone came and stole it and was running away. You couldn't catch them, but you did have a gun and could shoot. Is that justified?

If not, you are saying you basically shouldn't be able to stop robbers of your property, because unless you shoot, you have to be bigger or faster and risk your life to do it(or trust that the police will find it, which never happens).

Maybe it shouldn't be this way, but either you can shoot to protect your property or not.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Or fucked him, so that he would have gotten the service he paid for.

This is assuming the people saying 'what, he did was [for some reason] legal are even right.'

The 'criminal mischief' thing is flat-out bullshit. You can't call for the services of a whore and then shoot her when she arrive 'cause dude, she was a whore and that's illegal.'

So you're left with theft, which I'd also have to call bullshit on. At most it would fall vaguely into a civil area related to 'breach of contract.' Basically, failing to provide a service you've been compensated for.

He could definitely win in civil court. Then go to jail.

The only excuse that can possibly be made for this scenario is if her pimp threatened him, or there were some other complicating factors. And it doesn't sound like anything like that happened; if it did, it wasn't major. Not like the whore got shot in a scuffle or something. She robbed him for being a dumbass that hired a craigslist prostitute. He shot her in the face for retribution.

Read: murder.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Since when does the phrase "in the wrong" apply only to legality? Do I really need to put the phrase "in my opinion" before stating that I think killing an unarmed person is wrong? That's a moral judgment, not a legal one. Morally, killing an unarmed person who is fleeing from you solely because they stole a small amount of money from you is wrong in my opinion. Does that clear things up?

Well, that's your opinion and it's your morals. They aren't anyone else's. No two people have exactly the same morals...
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,061
720
126
As far as I am concerned, every thief should be shot in the neck.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
You know the weirdest thing about this?

The old 'is raping a whore considered shoplifting' joke...but Texas actually went one level of absurdity higher (i.e. calling what is arguably a non-criminal act grounds for murder).

edit:

As far as I am concerned, every thief should be shot in the neck.

As I have said in countless other threads: Getting 'what you deserve' should not control what the law is and how it is interpreted. Stop ruining the fucking country for everyone else.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
many of you are caught up on the $150 part.

What if for some reason you keep all your money in cash instead of a bank. Lets say you had $50,000 stashed away and someone came and stole it and was running away. You couldn't catch them, but you did have a gun and could shoot. Is that justified?

If not, you are saying you basically shouldn't be able to stop robbers of your property, because unless you shoot, you have to be bigger or faster and risk your life to do it(or trust that the police will find it, which never happens).

Maybe it shouldn't be this way, but either you can shoot to protect your property or not.

I'm caught up on the money because it's such a trifling amount. If $150 is your life savings, you better hope they throw your ass in jail just so you know your room and board is covered. $150 is less than a couple days' pay for the majority of the country. Someone takes away 2 days of your work, you take away their life? That's hardly a fair trade.

This was a learning experience for him; don't order a hooker from Craigslist. He paid $150 to learn a lesson that most people could figure out on their own. He shouldn't resort to killing someone because he's the moron who thought that a Craigslist hooker was going to be a stand-up gal. I mean, for fuck's sake, you're ordering an illegal service on a site that has to include dozens of warnings about scammers... what did you think was going to happen?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Well, that's your opinion and it's your morals. They aren't anyone else's. No two people have exactly the same morals...

That's true (and it was also fairly specific to the details of this case). But given the outrage expressed by many in this thread, and over other internet sites as well, I think that my morality is being echoed by a lot of other people who are frankly shocked by the details of this case.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Since when does the phrase "in the wrong" apply only to legality? Do I really need to put the phrase "in my opinion" before stating that I think killing an unarmed person is wrong? That's a moral judgment, not a legal one. Morally, killing an unarmed person who is fleeing from you solely because they stole a small amount of money from you is wrong in my opinion. Does that clear things up?

Certainly. I totally understand that you feel it's wrong. Having had people I know in the past steal from me, my own opinion is that it should be right to be able to shoot those people if caught in the act (but that's just my opinion, which is consistent with Texas law). This is why I said that if you live in Texas and are affected by this law, then work to change the law if you are so inclined.
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
I'm caught up on the money because it's such a trifling amount. If $150 is your life savings, you better hope they throw your ass in jail just so you know your room and board is covered. $150 is less than a couple days' pay for the majority of the country. Someone takes away 2 days of your work, you take away their life? That's hardly a fair trade.

This was a learning experience for him; don't order a hooker from Craigslist. He paid $150 to learn a lesson that most people could figure out on their own. He shouldn't resort to killing someone because he's the moron who thought that a Craigslist hooker was going to be a stand-up gal. I mean, for fuck's sake, you're ordering an illegal service on a site that has to include dozens of warnings about scammers... what did you think was going to happen?

you almost sound like you think the thief did nothing wrong. Do you just feel like all theft should not be able to be stopped by citizens? Only police?

Unless you are capable of overpowering the thief, that leaves you needing a weapon.

In my opinion, I turn your argument against the thief. You are in a state where much of the population has firearms. If you are dumb enough to steal, you are taking the huge risk of personal injury(or worse in this case).

Don't steal unless you know all the risks associated, and yes, being shot is one.
 
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