Just a simple Mac or PC Question

[jojo29]

Ok, i havent keep up to date on Apple Macs since they first decided to use Intel Processors.

I just want a straight forward answer please, im not here to flame or anything, just want to know something is all, not planning on buying anything anytime soon

Now, some info before i post my question: I use my Computer PRIMARILY for GAMING ONLY, meaning, i want to run my games which range from World of Warcraft to Warhammer 40,000, to Crysis to Call of Duty etc...in short i game heavily.

Now, i've always gone with PC for a number of reasons including: Upgradeablity ( i can upgrade memory AND Processor AND Graphic card and be set for another year lol) and developer supports PCs over Macs which results in games running better on PC ( am i correct?)

Now, my question is, IF i was to buy a Mac today, would i be able to Upgrade it's processor/memory/graphic card to make it last even longer? Or do they do something proprietary as to where i wouldn't be able to switch the GPU/CPU/Memory/HDD without breaking something???

That's it, a simple question. I'm under the impression that once you buy a mac, your pretty much 'stuck' with the specs it has, which no matter how good those specs may be, as gamers we know it will never be enough, so the only thing we can do is buy a Mobo that can last at least 1-3 generations of Processors ( P5E3 Premium im looking at you ) and just upgrade the RAM/GPU until the processor can no longer handle anything, which i believe is far better than being 'stuck' lol Well at least that how i do it, as i havent found my money tree just yet

 

[ther00kie16]

I'm not sure about the GPU anymore (last mac GPU i know of was 9800pro), but you can find all the others for macs.

 

[phisrow]

Depends on the Mac. Laptops, you upgrade nothing. Not that that is much different than most PC laptops. Mac mini, you would, in theory, upgrade the processor; but you are stuck with embedded graphics, so there isn't much point. iMac, the processor is theoretically upgradable(though not really designed to be user accessable); but I don't believe that the graphics are. Mac Pro allows upgrades of both processors and video cards, with the stipulation that it takes Xenon processors, not core2s, and the graphics card needs to support Apple's use of EFI. You have options; but not as many as for a generic PC.

The punchline is: not really.

 

[DaveSimmons]

ATI will be offering replacement video cards, but only for Mac Pro desktops (= $2,800 to start, with just 2 GB and a slowpoke Radeon 2600 XT).

There is no sane reason to buy a Mac system "PRIMARILY for GAMING ONLY", it's just a bad idea.

If you really want to "think different" just install linux on a second partition of a Windows PC or buy an Asus eee to mess with. Or buy a gaming Pc -and- a Mac Mini or Macbook. Any of those options is better and cheaper than the Pro for your usage.

 

[phisrow]

DaveSimmons is correct, unless you have an unusually high budget in mind. The thing about Macs these days is that they are actually a pretty good(in some cases quite good) value for what they are. However, there is one category of computer that Apple just doesn't offer: the basic "single socket, 1-2 GPU, and a few drive bays" type minitower computer. Trouble is, that is the exact type of computer that virtually every gamer is best off with. The iMac is closeish; but doesn't offer GPU upgrades, and the Pro is nicer; but markedly more expensive.

Particularly now that quad core processors are showing up even in budget systems, it is hard to justify a two socket system for anything but quite serious workstation stuff.

 

[jojo29]

Ok, i figured as much, but was a bit confused as when i browsed their website, i saw they had GPU options so i figured maybe it'd be easy to swap out, but as i had initially suspected, it wasn't meant to be user friendly. Anywhoo, I guess ill be springing for a completely new system this August, because as you can tell in my signature, its really about that time lol. Anywhoo, Just FYI, with the current rig that i have, i have run EVERY game perfectly up until Company of Heroes came out, thats when my system started chugging, and of course Crysis crushed it lol but goes to show, you can SQUEEZE EVERY OUNCE of performance in your system if you learn how and are willing.

MY first rig has lasted me since 2004 to the present day

With that said here goes my next rig, so let me know what you guys think, and remember, im trying to future proof as much as i can, aiming PRIMARILY at gaming but at the same time i would like to be able to do a lil bit of media stuff:

https://secure.newegg.com/Wish...5948&WishListTitle=New

Thats my wish list, let me know what you guys think. If theres a thing you would change, please state what you would change/why/and your recommended part you'd use instead

 

[DSF]

DDR3 is a waste of money. Stick to 2x2GB DDR2 and a basic Intel chipset like P35.

Also, no real reason to buy a 3870x2 now with new ATI cards coming out very soon.

There are better 500W PSUs for the money. (Look at the Corsair 520HX for example, and buy.com tends to have the best prices on it.)

 

[randomlinh]

given you use your machine primarily for gaming, I don't see the point in buying a mac... you'd be boot camping into windows for it anyway... and you're stuck with one or two upgrade paths right now w/ a mac pro... just not worth it at all.

 

[chinaman1472]

Mac has their uses and assets. Gaming isn't one of them.

 

[jojo29]

Originally posted by: DSF
DDR3 is a waste of money. Stick to 2x2GB DDR2 and a basic Intel chipset like P35.

I got ya on the DDR3, but why stick to a 'basic' intel chipset? I'm looking to be able to support as many processor generations as i can, including the next series, will a 'basic' intel chipset let me do this like the mobo in my wish list can? If it can, please give me the name of this 'basic' Asus mobo you speak of, and yes Asus is my preference.

Also, no real reason to buy a 3870x2 now with new ATI cards coming out very soon.

Yeah, i agree with you on that, and with them only being around the $200+ mark, it will be a better bargain

There are better 500W PSUs for the money. (Look at the Corsair 520HX for example, and buy.com tends to have the best prices on it.)

ill shop around as well, and i will check out both the Corsair and buy.com

 

[themisfit610]

For gaming - Mac is a poor decision.

For content creation though - the MacPro is the best deal out there, without a doubt. They practically give you a quad-core xeon for free - seriously, show me another vendor that will sell an 8-core system that will take up to 32GB of RAM, 4 3.5" hard drives, and 4 PCIe slots If they do, it will cost a _lot_ more.

~MiSfit

 

[jojo29]

How is it that the new 4850s from ATI, despite being 512MB cards, outperform the 3870x2 and that has 1GB ???

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: jojo29
How is it that the new 4850s from ATI, despite being 512MB cards, outperform the 3870x2 and that has 1GB ???

Read the design description in the AnandTech.com review.

Your question is the similar to asking "how come a pentium 3 with 1 GB is slower than a Core 2 Duo with 512 MB?" Answer: because the Core 2 is a much faster processor.

Onboard RAM has almost nothing to do with performance unless a card has too little of it for a high resolution monitor.

Also, the 3870 really has 2 x 512 MB (it's 2 GPUs on one card) not 1 GB x 1.

 

[modoheo]

If you can hold out a few more months, rather than upgrading in August, you'll be better off. The new Intel CPU's (Nehalem) will be much faster than the Core2's and will require a new socket. So if you buy a new mobo in August, forget about upgrading your CPU. The Nehalem's will be out sometime between the end of '08 and mid '09.

Or if you do upgrade in August, choose a much, much cheaper mobo than you have in your wishlist so you don't mind tossing it when Nehalem comes along. I think a Core2 system with a 90$ gigabyte p35 mobo and a 300 dollar ATI 4850 GPU would make you quite happy for a year or two.

 

[jojo29]

Originally posted by: modoheo
If you can hold out a few more months, rather than upgrading in August, you'll be better off. The new Intel CPU's (Nehalem) will be much faster than the Core2's and will require a new socket. So if you buy a new mobo in August, forget about upgrading your CPU. The Nehalem's will be out sometime between the end of '08 and mid '09.

Or if you do upgrade in August, choose a much, much cheaper mobo than you have in your wishlist so you don't mind tossing it when Nehalem comes along. I think a Core2 system with a 90$ gigabyte p35 mobo and a 300 dollar ATI 4850 GPU would make you quite happy for a year or two.

I see....hmmm kinda of in a conundrum, because i was planning to get the new system up and running for Starcraft 2 which is scheduled to hit this year ( yeah right huh lol) so that would suck to have to buy a new mobo/processor...dang i don't know what to do

 

[Modelworks]

Why not install OSX on PC and give it a try.
It worked so well for me that I went out and bought a copy of OSX.
It actually installed faster and ran better than vista did on the same pc.
Apple could really win over some users if they would just make OSX on x86 available without buying a Mac.

http://www.insanelymac.com/

 

[jojo29]

Originally posted by: modoheo
If you can hold out a few more months, rather than upgrading in August, you'll be better off. The new Intel CPU's (Nehalem) will be much faster than the Core2's and will require a new socket. So if you buy a new mobo in August, forget about upgrading your CPU. The Nehalem's will be out sometime between the end of '08 and mid '09.

Or if you do upgrade in August, choose a much, much cheaper mobo than you have in your wishlist so you don't mind tossing it when Nehalem comes along. I think a Core2 system with a 90$ gigabyte p35 mobo and a 300 dollar ATI 4850 GPU would make you quite happy for a year or two.

AHHH i see where i got confused. See, when i first came up with my new rig list, Penrynn was JUST coming out, but now it is out, so i got a little bit behind. I see how Intel does it. Nehalem Generation===>Westmere will be same socket, then Sandy Bridge will be a new socket. So im building my new rig on the verge of Intel's newest socket, which will be Nehalem....got it.

Hmmm interesting indeed...