Just another Vista thread.. My first impressions.. And compared to Ubuntu.

[IamDavid]

So here?s my two cents about Vista, I?ve now had Ultimate installed since the RTM:
I?m running:
4200X2
Asrock Dual SATA
2GB OCZ DDR400
Nvidia 7800GS
SATAII Seagate 200GB HD

Ubuntu is better at installing, at least for someone with OK PC knowledge.

Beryl is hands down prettier then Aero , more useful too.

Ubuntu/Berly doesn?t require a power house to run either.

Programs ?play? better with Ubuntu. Anyone else have xvid installed in Vista? That?s a treat!

Ubuntu is easier to use for first time users. Vista is constantly asking if you?re ?SURE if you want to do that?. My mother will freak out from every little pop up and call her 24hr. support tech, ME. ?

Vista theme is a cheesy attempt to look sleek and stylish. Icons appear to be cheap rip offs of OSX. New Vista backgrounds are pretty. ?

Taskbar sucks. Better when it scrolled/faded out. Covering itself up is annoying. I wanna see everything if I want.

Driver support sucks for Vista; I know it will get much better though. Ubuntu has some issues as well though, video card drivers suck!

Vista seems snappier then its predecessors, but looses in every other speed test. Photoshop lags, encoding videos are pathetic, unzipping files are slow too.

Networking has improved tremendously, browsing and file transfer speeds are great. This is if you can keep your network connected! I had many, many problems. Hopefully it?s just my drivers.

IE7 does improve over 6 but why bother when you can use FF.

New Media Player is good.

If only someone could get Adobe CS2, Dreamwaver and MS Office to run under Ubuntu no one would need to spend hundreds of dollars on another pointless MS operating system.

I am not a MS hater; in fact I believe the new Office is the greatest step forward for just about any software suite to date. I also love Win2K3 server. Have a stripped down version running right now and will never get rid of it.

 

[Tarrant64]

This is more of a comparison between two OS's that really can't relate to each other. It would have been better to compare Windows XP to Vista, than Vista to a Linux distro. What programs are you talking about specifically that "play" better in Ubuntu? Are these Linux specific programs? Or programs that can be used in Windows Vista and Linux(Ubunutu). Ubunutu may be easier for first time users if they have previous experience with Linux. The majority of people using any computer for their first time, store bought at least, would use Windows. There is nothing wrong with Vista's "sure if you want to do that", with the UAC turned off(user account control). Microsoft has made a lot of improvements since it's beta releases of that feature.

With the task bar, Vista does offer the option for the classic start menu. I believe this has always been a feature offered since Windows 2000(?). What drivers are you having problems with? Overall support for Vista drivers is growing, and many work the first time you get the OS up and running. There are some specific hardwares that don't work though, but for the most part a in depth search will find you what you're looking for. Not too many people like change, so Firefox may be something they shy away from. I guess power users would like FF better, but I know my mom would hate to use firefox, even though it's not all that different from IE7 now(tabbed browsing, that is). My room mate, hated FF because it was all weird, and he claims it always screwed something up. I hear that alot actually, that people at home install Firefox and it screws stuff up. I must be missing something because I never had that problem. Getting back to what I was saying, now that he has IE7 installed, I installed FF for him(to ensure there were no 'problems') and once that was going he realized there wasn't too much of a difference. In the end, he still prefers IE7.

If only there were more users in general who decided to use Ubunutu, or even Linux for that matter, for all their needs...

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[IamDavid]

"What programs are you talking about specifically that "play" better in Ubuntu?"
The big one is having an Xvid codec installed.. Constant "Com Surrogate error" message.Had problems with Picassa and a couple others. Nothing as annoying as the Xvid problem but if apps ran in XP it shouldn't have any probs in Vista.

"Ubunutu may be easier for first time users if they have previous experience with Linux. "
I don't think so. If the person wants to install - get online - maybe make a word file, play some music or print some photo's Ubuntu is the way to go. And that?s what most people use a PC for.

"There is nothing wrong with Vista's "sure if you want to do that", with the UAC turned off(user account control). Microsoft has made a lot of improvements since it's beta releases of that feature."
That is scary I never tried the Beta versions, thank god. I can't imagine it be any worse than this though.


"With the task bar, Vista does offer the option for the classic start menu. I believe this has always been a feature offered since Windows 2000(?)."
Why change it? Have the scroll out method standard, and then choose the other.

"What drivers are you having problems with? Overall support for Vista drivers is growing, and many work the first time you get the OS up and running."
Video card drivers are very poor at the moment, sure they work but that's about it. They will improve I know. But when? I also can't get my soundcard working at all. Via Envy24. XP drivers won't work at all for some reason.

"Not too many people like change, so Firefox may be something they shy away from. "
That's true. But all IE 7 is, is a wanna be FF.

"If only there were more users in general who decided to use Ubunutu, or even Linux for that matter, for all their needs... "
I agree. People here Linux and think geek though. My kids have Ubuntu on their PC so anyone can use it. They are 7/4/2.

 

[Tarrant64]

Well, with the statement about Ubuntu being easy for those who just want to use a PC, many don't know of Ubuntu. I do see where you're coming from though. However, those used to Microsoft applications won't be too fond of Ubunutu(or any other distros for that matter), and some may even miss iTunes(is there iTunes for Ubuntu?). Also, a lot of people like their plug and play media devices, camera's, mp3 players, etc. I'm not confident that Ubuntu will let me go at it with just plugging it in. And I'm not sure I want to find out whether or not the software I download, or that comes with the CD, works with Ubuntu or not. Rather just...pop it in XP and go.

What's scary about UAC turned off? If you had tried out Beta versions, you would see how much Vista has progressed.

Yeah, video card drivers are poor at the moment. Let's take a look, Vista hasn't been out that long. Do you know how long it took for Windows XP to actually get the ball rolling and catch up to all the latest and greatest hardware out there? Yes, they will improve, when? Couple months maybe? Now, maybe? Nvidia and ATI release new driver support pretty quickly if you ask me.

And Vista is a wannabe OS X. Let's not go there. Or should we?

People will find better support with Windows, and their applications as a whole. Support for Vista may not be as good as XP right now, but it will grow in time. There's not too many help desk geeks out there to help out with what may seem simple to an average linux user, but impossible to an everyday Windows user.

7, 4, and 2? Is that their age? 7...maybe. But 4 and 2?

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Well, with the statement about Ubuntu being easy for those who just want to use a PC, many don't know of Ubuntu. I do see where you're coming from though. However, those used to Microsoft applications won't be too fond of Ubunutu(or any other distros for that matter), and some may even miss iTunes(is there iTunes for Ubuntu?). Also, a lot of people like their plug and play media devices, camera's, mp3 players, etc. I'm not confident that Ubuntu will let me go at it with just plugging it in. And I'm not sure I want to find out whether or not the software I download, or that comes with the CD, works with Ubuntu or not. Rather just...pop it in XP and go.

What's scary about UAC turned off? If you had tried out Beta versions, you would see how much Vista has progressed.

Yeah, video card drivers are poor at the moment. Let's take a look, Vista hasn't been out that long. Do you know how long it took for Windows XP to actually get the ball rolling and catch up to all the latest and greatest hardware out there? Yes, they will improve, when? Couple months maybe? Now, maybe? Nvidia and ATI release new driver support pretty quickly if you ask me.

And Vista is a wannabe OS X. Let's not go there. Or should we?

People will find better support with Windows, and their applications as a whole. Support for Vista may not be as good as XP right now, but it will grow in time. There's not too many help desk geeks out there to help out with what may seem simple to an average linux user, but impossible to an everyday Windows user.

7, 4, and 2? Is that their age? 7...maybe. But 4 and 2?

Your right about not to many people knowing about Ubuntu, hopefully that will change.
I wasn't saying "What's scary about UAC turned off?" I was saying that if this is an improvement I'd hate to see what the beta version looked like.

7/4/2 are the ages..

7yr. old does everything.
4yr. old plays her games and music.
2yr. old gets on and does her letters and other little things..

 

[Tarrant64]

Hah! Yes, originally the first complaint from everyone was UAC sucked hard core. I couldn't get through 3 menu's without it slapping across the face(if that makes any sense at all...)

I hope your kids learn that they can actually go outside, and play with the other kids. I'm not so sure I would let my kids(which I would have in the distant future, if any at all) touch a computer until they were 10 or so. I would rather want them reading books and writing papers or something. I used to read and write all the time when I was young, now I am on a computer so much, and I use it for work, I can't write like I used to. I really wish I could. I had awesome handwriting. Now it's worse than chicken scratch.

Just out of curiosity, what music does your 4 year old listen to? I'm just wondering, so when I have kids, I know what this next generation is going to do to me.

I am actually wondering the overall opinion of people on this forum as to how young they would let their kids start using a computer. Very tempted to make a poll.

 

[andrewbabcock]

Do us all a favor and don't buy vista so Microsoft can drop it and just improve what they have started with XP. It is truly the next ME and i predict it won't last long when put up next to XP, Ubuntu, or Mac OS X. People won't upgrade, or they'll upgrade and revert, and Microsoft will lose big-time. I will stay with XP for as long as i possibly can, which will be for years. Microsoft is just dumb and they should just improve XP and make an updated version of it. Vista is so ridiculous. The only reason you might need it is for directx, but i can't believe ms would be that retarded.

Anyone ever wonder why MS (software/OS) fanboys don't exist? Because MS blows hard and has no fans. People use MS stuff because they feel like they have to. X360 is great but OS and software from MS is just not that good, i use it because i feel like i have to. I'm installing Ubuntu and i won't look back...

 

[batmang]

hrmm, you sound like you are in 100% favor of Ubuntu so why would you even compare it to Vista when all your doing is bashing it.

I'm sure Vista has its pro's and its con's, just like Ubuntu does. Do you think your mother will know how to install an application via the terminal? I really doubt she could. In Vista, all she has to do is double click, click yes to " make sure " she wants to install it, and its done.

It all depends on what you want to do with your computer, either or has its pro's and con's.
I prefer Ubuntu because its free, its the best newbie distro IMO, and well... its fun and easy to use if you've got some computer knowledge.

 

[stash]

Nothing as annoying as the Xvid problem but if apps ran in XP it shouldn't have any probs in Vista.

That's an incredibly large and inaccurate assumption.

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: andrewbabcock
FUD and other assoicated drivel

I for one am enjoying your contributions to this forum.

Do you have any opinions based in fact, or are you going to continue regurgitating "ZOMG M$ suxors lolol!!1" crap?

 

[Nothinman]

However, those used to Microsoft applications won't be too fond of Ubunutu(or any other distros for that matter)

That goes without saying, if you like a specific application there's going to be some time required to get used to a replacement. Even if you end up liking the replacement better in the end the transition will probably suck.

and some may even miss iTunes(is there iTunes for Ubuntu?).

No and I don't think it runs in WINE either. But I've heard a number of people saying that they like Amarok a lot better than iTunes, I don't think Amarok can use the iTunes store though so it would only work if you just wanted a music player/organizier thing.

Also, a lot of people like their plug and play media devices, camera's, mp3 players, etc. I'm not confident that Ubuntu will let me go at it with just plugging it in.

IME it's just as easy, if not easier than Windows with most devices. Odd devices like some ****** cameras require special software to get the pictures off but I believe gphoto should handle those too.

I'm not confident that Ubuntu will let me go at it with just plugging it in. And I'm not sure I want to find out whether or not the software I download, or that comes with the CD, works with Ubuntu or not. Rather just...pop it in XP and go.

And that's your decision, but your lack of confidence doesn't mean Ubuntu can't do it. No the software that came with your device probably won't work, but IMO that's usually a good thing. Most manufacturer bundled software is crap.

There's not too many help desk geeks out there to help out with what may seem simple to an average linux user, but impossible to an everyday Windows user.

And it won't get any better as long as people like you keep shunning Linux for no good reason. As a technical person you should want to play with Linux at least a little bit so you can make a semi-educated decision about it. It's not like it costs you anything except some time and Linux is only going to get more popular, MS' decision to partner with Novell should be a big sign of that. Will '07 be the year of Linux on The Desktop? Doubtful, but it also won't be the year that Linux died either.

I am actually wondering the overall opinion of people on this forum as to how young they would let their kids start using a computer. Very tempted to make a poll.

A friend of mine has a 7 yr old and he put a computer in his room with a handful of learning games on it, there's no Internet connection or anything else on it though AFAIK so he uses it for an hour or so a night to practice his math, spelling, etc.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Well, with the statement about Ubuntu being easy for those who just want to use a PC, many don't know of Ubuntu. I do see where you're coming from though. However, those used to Microsoft applications won't be too fond of Ubunutu(or any other distros for that matter), and some may even miss iTunes(is there iTunes for Ubuntu?). Also, a lot of people like their plug and play media devices, camera's, mp3 players, etc. I'm not confident that Ubuntu will let me go at it with just plugging it in. And I'm not sure I want to find out whether or not the software I download, or that comes with the CD, works with Ubuntu or not. Rather just...pop it in XP and go.

What's scary about UAC turned off? If you had tried out Beta versions, you would see how much Vista has progressed.

Yeah, video card drivers are poor at the moment. Let's take a look, Vista hasn't been out that long. Do you know how long it took for Windows XP to actually get the ball rolling and catch up to all the latest and greatest hardware out there? Yes, they will improve, when? Couple months maybe? Now, maybe? Nvidia and ATI release new driver support pretty quickly if you ask me.

And Vista is a wannabe OS X. Let's not go there. Or should we?

People will find better support with Windows, and their applications as a whole. Support for Vista may not be as good as XP right now, but it will grow in time. There's not too many help desk geeks out there to help out with what may seem simple to an average linux user, but impossible to an everyday Windows user.

7, 4, and 2? Is that their age? 7...maybe. But 4 and 2?

It's far easier to install apps in Ubuntu then windows....

Synaptic is soooo much easier then anything windows offers imho.

 

[IamDavid]

Tarrant64,
Why not start children out early on pc's? If used properly they are wonderful tools. My soon to be 2yr. old has learned most of the alphabet, shapes, colors and counting over the past few months. allot of it on the PC sitting on my lap. Her favorite game is to say the letter I type. I increase the font size to 300 and she loves it. Se can launch word and do it herself as well. My 4yr. old loves anything sung by a girl, nothing to grown up though.. She also loves to watch movies on the PC, I have copied most her DVD's to Xvid format.
The PC is in our family/play room so no one is on the PC without supervision and I have all the blocks in place. They might spend 10 to 20minutes at a time on it before becoming board and move on to something else. It's a part of life now so it's a complete non issue. Way better then any TV..

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: stash

Nothing as annoying as the Xvid problem but if apps ran in XP it shouldn't have any probs in Vista.

That's an incredibly large and inaccurate assumption.

I hope your saying XVID isn't the most annoying problem because if your saying Vista shouldn't be backwards compatible with current apps I have to disagree. If I'm shelling out a couple hundred bucks for my OS I better not have to spend more $$ upgrading to a newer version of my apps.

 

[A5]

I tried Ubuntu, but I killed my install when I tried to setup Xinerama, so I gave up and went back to XP.

 

[stash]

I hope your saying XVID isn't the most annoying problem because if your saying Vista shouldn't be backwards compatible with current apps I have to disagree.

There has been a ton of work done on app compat in Vista, but there are so many fundemental changes revolving around UAC that there will be problems.

That's why there's the upgrade advisor software. I wonder if it will flag XVID.

 

[stash]

Double post.

 

[Tarrant64]

Originally posted by: IamDavid
Tarrant64,
Why not start children out early on pc's? If used properly they are wonderful tools. My soon to be 2yr. old has learned most of the alphabet, shapes, colors and counting over the past few months. allot of it on the PC sitting on my lap. Her favorite game is to say the letter I type. I increase the font size to 300 and she loves it. Se can launch word and do it herself as well. My 4yr. old loves anything sung by a girl, nothing to grown up though.. She also loves to watch movies on the PC, I have copied most her DVD's to Xvid format.
The PC is in our family/play room so no one is on the PC without supervision and I have all the blocks in place. They might spend 10 to 20minutes at a time on it before becoming board and move on to something else. It's a part of life now so it's a complete non issue. Way better then any TV..

I will most likely understand this when I have kids then. Maybe not two, but 5...sure. I just have this paranoia about my eyes going bad staring at 16x12 all day. Would like my kids at least to make it to 20 before needed goggles.

Which I have nothing against, btw.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Hrm. I'm running Vista Ultimate (RTM) x86 right now with Koepi's Xvid 1.1.2 build installed using VirtualDub 1.7.0 (this is the version you're supposed to use with Vista). Everything works fine (I just finished a 2-pass encode). Playback works fine in Zoomplayer, Windows Media Player 11, and Media Player Classic 6.4.9.0 (with both Xvid or ffdshow).

Are you sure you have everything set up correctly?

Taskbar sucks. Better when it scrolled/faded out. Covering itself up is annoying. I wanna see everything if I want.

Huh? The taskbar is the same as RC2 which is about the same as XP which is about the same as 98...

Do you mean the tray or the Start Menu?

Vista seems snappier then its predecessors, but looses in every other speed test. Photoshop lags, encoding videos are pathetic, unzipping files are slow too.

Xvid encoding seems about the same (only a little slower). Photoshop CS2 9.0.2 doesn't noticeably lag (and unlike RC2, it doesn't dump me out of Aero Glass. However, it does randomly crash when closing). 7-zip runs about the same too. I guess I'm lucky?



Pentium D 820
Asrock 775Dual-VSTA
2GB DDR1
9600SE
2x80GB HDD RAID-0



[edit]Ah, it might be UAC. Have you tried turning it off for installation? I turn it off until I install all the apps I use before turning it back on.[/edit]

 

[xtknight]

meh, never mind

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Well, with the statement about Ubuntu being easy for those who just want to use a PC, many don't know of Ubuntu. I do see where you're coming from though. However, those used to Microsoft applications won't be too fond of Ubunutu(or any other distros for that matter), and some may even miss iTunes(is there iTunes for Ubuntu?). Also, a lot of people like their plug and play media devices, camera's, mp3 players, etc. I'm not confident that Ubuntu will let me go at it with just plugging it in. And I'm not sure I want to find out whether or not the software I download, or that comes with the CD, works with Ubuntu or not. Rather just...pop it in XP and go.

What's scary about UAC turned off? If you had tried out Beta versions, you would see how much Vista has progressed.

Yeah, video card drivers are poor at the moment. Let's take a look, Vista hasn't been out that long. Do you know how long it took for Windows XP to actually get the ball rolling and catch up to all the latest and greatest hardware out there? Yes, they will improve, when? Couple months maybe? Now, maybe? Nvidia and ATI release new driver support pretty quickly if you ask me.

And Vista is a wannabe OS X. Let's not go there. Or should we?

People will find better support with Windows, and their applications as a whole. Support for Vista may not be as good as XP right now, but it will grow in time. There's not too many help desk geeks out there to help out with what may seem simple to an average linux user, but impossible to an everyday Windows user.

7, 4, and 2? Is that their age? 7...maybe. But 4 and 2?

It's far easier to install apps in Ubuntu then windows....

Synaptic is soooo much easier then anything windows offers imho.

I disagree. I think Synaptic is godly compared to having to manually compile dependancies, but for most programs in Windows you either pop in the CD or double click the installer. Whats difficult about that other than having to restart?

For the last 2 months I have been dual booting Linux, and have tried 6 or 7 distros, and I can honestly say Linux has come a long way but still is not ready for home desktop use. Just for the most basic of tasks occasionally requires line item input. Most Windows users dont even know there is a line item option in Windows. I think another factor is the naming convention in Linux. g-this, k-that, with many programs having funky names. Windows programs have simple names, that pretty much tell you what they do. It may not matter to us, but to the average home user, its a BIG deal.

Anyhow. I tried Linux and liked it alot, but could not, with 6 distros, get webcam working nor could I get all of my games working in either Wine or Cedega. That was a deal breaker for me.

Vista is pretty nice. Recognised all my hardware on install, and everything worked. There was an application issue for a few things, but overall it was a positive experience for me. It is far less resource hoggish than I thought it would be, and seems to handle heavy workloads a little better than XP. I think humans in general are resistant to change is why so many people say they will stick to XP for a few years, wont buy Vista, yada yada yada. These are the same people who said they wouldnt switch to XP years ago XP is pretty long in the tooth now for sure. I guess people forgot RC2 for XP...it was buggy as hell. Thats how ALL new software is. I dont honestly think it wall take long for 3rd parties to get drivers and compatibility up to par...say within 6 months.

But thats just MY humble opinion...

 

[daniel1113]

Oops, wrong post.

 

[fyleow]

..

 

[IamDavid]

"I guess people forgot RC2 for XP...it was buggy as hell. Thats how ALL new software is. "

To me this statement is absolutely insane. True though, but insane.. We as consumers have slowly been conned into beleiving it's alright to sell an incomplete version. Whether it be a game (Neverwinter Nights 2) or an OS like Vista we accept it. Why?
We also have accepted the BS about a new version needing a better, faster machine.. Ubuntu w/Beryl proves that. It runs on just about any 3d video card and is prettier and does more then Vista's joke of Aero. How in the #$%^ can a operating system "require" such a power house to run all its features? Poor programing? MS in bed with hardware manufacturers? Whatever the reason, it's our fault. We keep buying what they want to sell us, not what we want to buy..

Sorry about the rant.

 

[IamDavid]

wrong button