Just bought a BMW 3... but I feel out of control

[Alphathree33]

In my old Civic, I always felt 100% in control.

My new BMW is great, but it's rear wheel drive and I'm wondering if that's contributing to my sense of loss of control.

For example when I take tight corners on the BMW, I feel like the rear wheels "slip" (I think this is called understeer?) in a way that never happened on my civic.

And generally I just feel like I'm skating on ice sometimes.

Am I imagine all of this, or does rear wheel drive really change the dynamics that much?

 

[lxskllr]

RRD is a good bit different from FWD. Some of the older cars felt like they wanted to launch themselves off the road in a turn. It's gotten better in my experience, but FWD still handles better.

 

[Sheep]

As you're finding out, FWD, RWD and AWD all exhibit different handling characteristics. You'll get used to it--just be happy you got your new car in time for summer and not winter. Driving a RWD car in the winter snow when you're not used to it takes some practice--you don't know the meaning of skating on ice until you've tried that when you're not familiar with it.

 

[datalink7]

My first car was a RWD so I didn't have too much trouble (probably because I didn't learn any habits that worked for FWD cars because I didn't have one).

I had been thinking about getting a BMW 335 but I think I am going to go with the G37s instead. It will cost me about 10k less because of a special deal I can get and I don't think 10k is worth the BMW for me at this point in time. But it was one of the cars I was looking at... how do you like it?

 

[amdhunter]

You need to come to the garage - a ton of us have bought new vehicles this past month. Pics? Which 3 series? 28? 35? i? is? xi? coupe? sedan?

 

[MJinZ]

Your feeling of "out of control" is that you're used to FWD, which exhibits understeer. Understeer is what I'm sure you've experienced where you feel like you're not turning your wheels enough, so you compensate by turning harder.

RWD will do the opposite and exhibit oversteer.

To an inexperienced driver who is used to FWD, oversteer gives you a feeling of "tail happiness" which may make you feel like you're losing control of your car as your rear is both responsible for traction as well as torque, causing your rear wheels to lose traction before your front wheels do. And in a way, you are. For a RWD vehicle, you aren't supposed to be able to take corners the same way you did with a FWD vehicle.

FWD understeer is much easier to adjust to than RWD oversteer. I suggest you take a driving lesson that BMW may provide free of charge.

 

[DaTT]

3 what?

 

[DaTT]

Oh...and once you go RWD, you never go back :0

 

[jlee]

RRD is a good bit different from FWD. Some of the older cars felt like they wanted to launch themselves off the road in a turn. It's gotten better in my experience, but FWD still handles better.

Whaaa? No traction, torque steer, and understeer comes with on-power corner exit..woohoo...

 

[mafia]

I suggest you park this thread into the garage.

 

[Alphathree33]

Thanks guys. So if RWD has all of these handling "problems", then why would I want it?

I mean I realize it helps me accelerate faster in a straight line because it puts the weight of the car over the wheels where the power is being delivered... but is that really the practical use case?

Or is it a case of "once I learn how to compensate, it'll be better than FWD"?

 

[Rubycon]

Tyres must not be at sidewall.

 

[Demo24]

RRD is a good bit different from FWD. Some of the older cars felt like they wanted to launch themselves off the road in a turn. It's gotten better in my experience, but FWD still handles better.

LOL! Sorry but that is just a false statement. FWD exists because of convenient packaging and economy, it doesn't exist because it offers better handling characteristics.

 

[isekii]

Thanks guys. So if RWD has all of these handling "problems", then why would I want it?

I mean I realize it helps me accelerate faster in a straight line because it puts the weight of the car over the wheels where the power is being delivered... but is that really the practical use case?

Or is it a case of "once I learn how to compensate, it'll be better than FWD"?

I dont understand what you mean by losing control of the rear~ I don't feel any of that when I'm driving my IS.
Are you braking hard while turning ?

 

[MJinZ]

Whaaa? No traction, torque steer, and understeer comes with on-power corner exit..woohoo...

FWD handles better for less capable drivers...

 

[lxskllr]

LOL! Sorry but that is just a false statement. FWD exists because of convenient packaging and economy, it doesn't exist because it offers better handling characteristics.

Bullshit. You go drive a winding country road in a 78 Buick, and then do it in a Jetta. After you're released from the hospital, and have paid your towing bill, come back and tell us about the experience ;^)

 

[Demo24]

Thanks guys. So if RWD has all of these handling "problems", then why would I want it?

I mean I realize it helps me accelerate faster in a straight line because it puts the weight of the car over the wheels where the power is being delivered... but is that really the practical use case?

Or is it a case of "once I learn how to compensate, it'll be better than FWD"?

It's not a 'problem'. RWD helps you better place and balance the car than FWD ever could.

Another thing is that BMW's are designed to handle more neutrally as compared to the Civic which is designed to understeer. That along with better suspension tuning is probably the biggest noticeable difference.

 

[mafia]

In my old Civic, I always felt 100% in control.

My new BMW is great, but it's rear wheel drive and I'm wondering if that's contributing to my sense of loss of control.

For example when I take tight corners on the BMW, I feel like the rear wheels "slip" (I think this is called understeer?) in a way that never happened on my civic.

And generally I just feel like I'm skating on ice sometimes.

Am I imagine all of this, or does rear wheel drive really change the dynamics that much?

You might be driving with DSC off. Turn it on?

You need to come to the garage - a ton of us have bought new vehicles this past month. Pics? Which 3 series? 28? 35? i? is? xi? coupe? sedan?

Nah I think he bought an M3. The Civic was so underpowered, he got used to flooring it in corners just to keep up with the traffic. Now he is saying how much more difficult it is to control an M3 with DSC off while full throttling in a corner .. hmmmm

 

[Demo24]

Bullshit. You go drive a winding country road in a 78 Buick, and then do it in a Jetta. After you're released from the hospital, and have paid your towing bill, come back and tell us about the experience ;^)

A land barge compared to a small lightish economy car, great comparison.

I do hope my sarcasm meter is just broken here.

 

[MJinZ]

Thanks guys. So if RWD has all of these handling "problems", then why would I want it?

I mean I realize it helps me accelerate faster in a straight line because it puts the weight of the car over the wheels where the power is being delivered... but is that really the practical use case?

Or is it a case of "once I learn how to compensate, it'll be better than FWD"?

A RWD vehicle has handling advantages, not problems. Your car's weight is much more balanced, though it will weigh slightly more. You will be able to take corners harder and faster once you learn your car, traction issues are fewer (unless you're in snow or off-pavement, which is trade-off). Your steering will be more precise and be less affected by your own car's torque.

What FWD drivers really want however are cars like the GT-R's AWD systems. These things corner like nobody's business. You b-line in with throttle all the way and it works its magic in perfect balance and speed.

 

[lxskllr]

A land barge compared to a small lightish economy car, great comparison.

I do hope my sarcasm meter is just broken here.

Alright then, how about a 76 Capri II? That's equivalent in every respect.

 

[Alphathree33]

To answer questions: It's just a 323i - basically entry level, not M3 or anything like that.

Regular all-season tires. Traction control is on... everything is in "default" mode.

To be clear, I'm not talking about complete loss of control here... just a subtle feeling of slippage that I never felt in my civic. Especially in rainy or snowy weather, I feel way more out of control than I did in my civic.

 

[SunSamurai]

Jesus christ man you didnt fill you tires to sidewall!

 

[Alphathree33]

Jesus christ man you didnt fill you tires to sidewall!

Can you elaborate? Do you mean my tires are under-inflated? Why would the dealer give me under-inflated tires? Car is 3 months old brand new.

 

[lxskllr]

Can you elaborate? Do you mean my tires are under-inflated? Why would the dealer give me under-inflated tires? Car is 3 months old brand new.

It's an inside joke. If you inflate your tires to the stated sidewall pressure, you'll get better gas mileage, but likely lose traction.