Just can't imagine having kids...

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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Oh, and:



Bull. Fucking. Shit.



Not saying it's wrong? Again, you don't listen to yourself...

edit-Ooh! and now we can add:

I guess I misspoke. I should have said that you can live your life however you want, I just think you have a good chance of regretting it. Sorry for not clarifying, again.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
And I disagree, I think people who don't have kids are more selfish, especially if they have the means and ability. But that's a matter of opinion.

I'd say having children is a MUCH more selfish act. Bringing a life into this crappy world because of your own selfish reasons is the epitome of selfishness. But that just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, right? Mine is the right one.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
My parents are not me. They wanted to have kids, and I respect that as much as I respect any of my friends today who want to have kids. I don't want to have kids. Pretty simple.

PS-"Time machine" questions are stupid in a serious discussion. C'mon...

That's not the point.

Would you be fine if they chose not to have you?

It's not a stupid question, if they thought more like you, especially with the greater social prevalence (and selfishness) of the no-children viewpoint, would you be OK with not even existing.

Not trying to make a "gotcha", or even make an argument. I am just curious as to what you would think about not even existing if your parents had made the same decision as you.

I would think it'd be a smaller issue for somebody like you compared to the "we have too many kids already" people because the latter would actually advocate that their parents not add to the population.

Again, just curious.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
I am unsure how not having kids is selfish, but having kids to have something to "show for" at the end of of your life is not.

It's the same thing, both choices are selfish - enjoying a lifestyle without kids or having some sort of validation of your life by procreating. Both courses of action are driven by your own selfish desires, otherwise you obviously wouldn't do them.
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I'd say having children is a MUCH more selfish act. Bringing a life into this crappy world because of your own selfish reasons is the epitome of selfishness. But that just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, right? Mine is the right one.

Crappy world?

This is one reason why I wonder about the your parents not having kids. Doubly so for no-population people, as it's really just a function of unhappiness in life.

This world is pretty much no more crappy than it was 30 years ago. To say that it's a horrible existence really means that you aren't happy with your own existence so you can't imagine bringing another person into it. Thus, you should be OK with not even having yourself in this existence since it is "crappy".

I find that a fascinating perspective.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Crappy world?

This is one reason why I wonder about the your parents not having kids. Doubly so for no-population people, as it's really just a function of unhappiness in life.

This world is pretty much no more crappy than it was 30 years ago. To say that it's a horrible existence really means that you aren't happy with your own existence so you can't imagine bringing another person into it. Thus, you should be OK with not even having yourself in this existence since it is "crappy".

My parents actually love kids, hence the reason they had them. And I'd say my life is probably better than 90% of the people out there, and 95% better than people that have kids. But that doesn't really tell you much of my world views. In a nutshell, the world is a wonderful place, the people in it are the actual problem. My opinion of people in general is not very good. They're basically morons. And it's frustrating living with them, well, because they're so stupid. They're selfish, inconsiderate and only interested in helping themselves with no concern for the greater good. You're probably reading this and saying, "hey, didn't you just describe yourself because of your stance on parenting?" The answer is, no. I have the means to have children, but i choose not to. Instead I prefer to help kids who's shitty parents have selfishly put their wants before their children's needs. I also love helping others that are trying to help themselves. I actually prefer helping others in need that truly are trying to do the right thing, than buying something for myself. That being said, I'm not a saint. I do have a little selfishness, but the difference is, I don't lie about it.


You're argument sounds like the same argument the religious people give to Atheist. If you don't have the love of Jesus in your heart, you must have a miserable existence, or something went wrong in your life. It's not true for that nonsensical argument, and it's not true for yours. I'm happy because I designed my life exactly how I wanted it. It's as simple as that.
 
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
All inconveniences of having children are worth it because if you don't, you've utterly failed the entire point of your existence, which is to replicate your genes.
 

johnjohn320

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2001
7,572
2
76
I guess I misspoke. I should have said that you can live your life however you want, I just think you have a good chance of regretting it. Sorry for not clarifying, again.

Well, hold on a minute. We've been arguing for several pages of posts now about this. You came in all-a-bluster, calling me and people like me "selfish" and "ME ME ME" and "not caring for anyone but ourselves" because of our decision not to have kids. You didn't just say it in one post, you reiterated and repeated that as recently as within the last hour. Now you're saying you "misspoke." Did you misspeak, or are you just now realizing the point I've been trying to make this whole thread in arguing with you, that those of us who choose to remain childless are not necessarily self-centered assholes who care only for ourselves and no one else? I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just really important. It's really what I've been arguing with you about this whole time, so if you're recanting that, our main argument is over.

As for the side-discussion about my parents/time machine: you're correct, it's sort of a non-issue for me, as I am not one of the people in this thread arguing against having children because of how horrible of a place the world is or some other large-scale social issue. In fact, I'm not speaking against becoming a parent at all (as I've tried to make clear). I've stated only MY reasons for not having kids, while understanding that others may choose to have them. While I do find some of the reasons posted here strange (like the "I want something to show for myself" argument or the "I want someone by my deathbed" argument), I am not opposed to child-rearing in today's society in general...
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
And I disagree, I think people who don't have kids are more selfish, especially if they have the means and ability. But that's a matter of opinion.

No, it is a matter of narrow thinking. I have the means and ability to have kids, am married, and don't want them. It is old-fashioned, antiquated thinking to think that everyone with the means and abilities to have and raise kids should have them.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
All inconveniences of having children are worth it because if you don't, you've utterly failed the entire point of your existence, which is to replicate your genes.

What are the consequences to those of us that choose not to have kids? That's right, nothing. The "pass on your genes" argument is very weak. It isn't like there is a higher power keeping score and if you don't spread your genes, you're condemned to a fiery hell for eternity.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
An unbroken line of your ancestors faced predators, ice age, disease, war, famine, short life span, and a world which conspired in every way to prevent them from having offspring who survived long enough to have their own.

They fought, they sacrificed, they strove all so you could exist. Blood mattered to them, and so did ancestors and tradition.

But it all comes to a screeching halt with you because you can't be inconvenienced? You want to make sure you can afford the next iPhone and keep your vacation options open?
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
An unbroken line of your ancestors faced predators, ice age, disease, war, famine, short life span, and a world which conspired in every way to prevent them from having offspring who survived long enough to have their own.

They fought, they sacrificed, they strove all so you could exist. Blood mattered to them, and so did ancestors and tradition.

But it all comes to a screeching halt with you because you can't be inconvenienced? You want to make sure you can afford the next iPhone and keep your vacation options open?

Are you being serious with that argument?
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
An unbroken line of your ancestors faced predators, ice age, disease, war, famine, short life span, and a world which conspired in every way to prevent them from having offspring who survived long enough to have their own.

They fought, they sacrificed, they strove all so you could exist. Blood mattered to them, and so did ancestors and tradition.

Who cares? This is 2013, not 823. I guess the ancestors should have also passed down millions of dollars, along with castles, lands, etc.

Seriously, what a preposterous argument.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
An unbroken line of your ancestors faced predators, ice age, disease, war, famine, short life span, and a world which conspired in every way to prevent them from having offspring who survived long enough to have their own.

They fought, they sacrificed, they strove all so you could exist. Blood mattered to them, and so did ancestors and tradition.

But it all comes to a screeching halt with you because you can't be inconvenienced? You want to make sure you can afford the next iPhone and keep your vacation options open?

The difference is that you're talking about keeping offspring alive. IndyColtsFan has no offspring to be obligated to protect.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
The difference is that you're talking about keeping offspring alive. IndyColtsFan has no offspring to be obligated to protect.

On the contrary, he thinks we should all have kids and have some sort of duty to pass on our genes. He is wrong. No such duty exists.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
No such duty as not raping and killing anything you can exists either, except within the construct of human values. I'm appealing to you to rethink whether reproduction should be added to your construct.
 

johnjohn320

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2001
7,572
2
76
An unbroken line of your ancestors faced predators, ice age, disease, war, famine, short life span, and a world which conspired in every way to prevent them from having offspring who survived long enough to have their own.

They fought, they sacrificed, they strove all so you could exist. Blood mattered to them, and so did ancestors and tradition.

But it all comes to a screeching halt with you because you can't be inconvenienced? You want to make sure you can afford the next iPhone and keep your vacation options open?

That has got to be the dumbest shit I have ever read.

Hey Geo, a friend of mine recently found he's infertile. Can't produce children because of his "lazy sperm", through no fault of his own. Should he kill himself, since he can't produce offspring? Yeah, he should kill himself. So should every homosexual person on the planet, since they're unlikely to produce offspring.

This thread has officially gone idiotic...
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
to be honest this is a stupid thread. You don't want kids? fine don't have them. that's between you and whoever you are with.

we are friends with a couple who are 42 and without kids. they don't wan tkids. they travel and enjoy not having them. We are still friends and we still do things with them.

I have 3 kids. only thing i have ot say is you really don't have a idea on how it is having your own kids. you seem to be only seeing the negative things.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
I love my nieces and nephews very much but I am not sure I want to spend hours and hours with them or with my own kid(s) until they are 18 years old or more.

My current GF does want to settle down and have a kid or two soon. I still have cold feet syndrome. I do respect those that are parents. A lot of work and expenses.
 
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
That has got to be the dumbest shit I have ever read.

Hey Geo, a friend of mine recently found he's infertile. Can't produce children because of his "lazy sperm", through no fault of his own. Should he kill himself, since he can't produce offspring? Yeah, he should kill himself. So should every homosexual person on the planet, since they're unlikely to produce offspring.

This thread has officially gone idiotic...

Big difference between something outside of your control sadly making reproduction impossible, and just deciding it would cramp your style.
 

johnjohn320

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2001
7,572
2
76
I have 3 kids. only thing i have ot say is you really don't have a idea on how it is having your own kids.


Yeah. If only I had already addressed that in the OP. Oh wait...

I'm sure some people will be offended by my posting this, and take what I'm saying as personal judgments and insults. I don't mean for it to be, in fact, I applaud any parents out there. I don't know how you guys do it, it's incredible and admirable how selfless you are. I'm only stating that for myself, I just cannot imagine having even the slightest desire to procreate. I'm already bracing myself for the "since you're not a parent, you can't understand." It may be true, but it's also kind of a non-point to make.

you seem to be only seeing the negative things.

Feel free to enlighten me about the positive things, besides

I'm sure that the love you feel once you have a child is overwhelming and incomparable to any other experience in life. It's beautiful.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,206
18,674
146
OP. There's nothing wrong with how you feel. Not everyone is ready for kids or wants kids in their lifetime. As a species we're past the point where procreation is required to ensure survival.

Don't want kids? Cool, dude. Get out there and enjoy life with the lady.

I will say that having kids was something I never would've been truly "ready" for. My first son was a surprise, my second was planned.
 
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johnjohn320

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2001
7,572
2
76
Big difference between something outside of your control sadly making reproduction impossible, and just deciding it would cramp your style.

No, you can't have it both ways. Either the sole purpose of our existence is to procreate, or it isn't. Which one?
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
As a species we're past the point where procreation is required to ensure survival.

Unless genetics are a thing, and it matters who is reproducing at what rate, and who isn't.

Unless you only care that there be humans, with no thought to their quality.
 
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