Just got back from the Trump rally/protest

[glenn1]

To the Trumpers, free speech doesn't just mean that they have the right to speak, it also means that they should be able to force you to listen and even agree. The basis of the neoconfederate philosophy that Trump is selling is that their rights do not end where the rights of others begins, that freedom is not universal, but instead a kind of zero net sum game where one gets more freedoms by taking away the freedoms of others. That's not how freedom works, of course, but as long as they believe they come out on top, they don't care.

These people voluntarily came to hear Trump speak, and progressives voluntarily took active steps to come to where Trump was speaking also but instead with the intention of preventing the first group from hearing Trump or even preventing his speech outright. No one running for office is kidnapping people not inclined to vote for them and tying them to a chair to force them to listen to a stump speech. If and when Trump or anyone else WAS forcing people to listen to them I'd oppose that strongly also and would likewise approve of the use of force against those trying to make such things happen to others against their will.

 

[Vic]

And now Trump and his supporters are forcing you to even agree with them. Holy shit!

Well there it is...the most moronic thing I've read all day...and that's saying something!

You claim that people who disagree with you suffer from a mental disorder and are traitors, etc. That might be passive aggressive force, but it is force nonetheless.

 

[michal1980]

When you preach fear and hate and division, you get fear and hate and division.

The left doesnt preach fear? The left says vote for us or the other guys will deport you.
The left says vote for us, or the other guy will throw grandma off a cliff. etc etc etc.

Plenty of fear is shoveled by the left.

 

[glenn1]

You claim that people who disagree with you suffer from a mental disorder and are traitors, etc. That might be passive aggressive force, but it is force nonetheless.

Words aren't force and no one needs to accommodate your desire for a "safe space" where you don't need to hear words you disagree with.

Most of us learned by 1st grade how to handle it when someone calls you a bad name. Whether it's a 6 year old teasing by calling you a "poopyhead" or another message board poster saying "you're a traitor" doesn't make a difference. If you can't help but call that "force" then you need to put on your swim diaper and ask Mommy to give you a big hug and tell the scary monsters to go away.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

My thinking is just fine. The problem is that 'conservatives' learning of American history comes from talk radio.

This is what you are fighting against:
"As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."
George Washington

You live in a fantasy world of outrage, fueled by highly polarized stereotypes and boogiemen. You've bought into an ideology lock, stock and barrel and you sold your very soul for it...thinking that it somehow makes you a 'good person' and that anyone outside that bubble who doesn't agree are somehow evil. Your self-identity is wrapped in a lie.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The left doesnt preach fear? The left says vote for us or the other guys will deport you.
The left says vote for us, or the other guy will throw grandma off a cliff. etc etc etc.

Plenty of fear is shoveled by the left.

death panels sparky, death panels.
If you're not with us...
Obama's going to take your guns

we can do this all day I bet.

 

[Vic]

Can you explain what law exactly is being broken by someone "openly being against the 1st and 14th amendments"? I'm not aware of any laws that make being for or against something illegal. Neither is advocating for changes to laws (or repeal of them) illegal.

Laws targeted specifically at any religious group are a violation of the 1st amendment. Birthright citizenship and equal protection of the law are guaranteed in the 14th amendment.
Being against those is not illegal (way to split hairs there), but there is nowhere near enough support for changing those to amend the Constitution. So how is Trump going to deliver on his promises to ban Muslims and deport 'anchor babies' without breaking the law?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Why are liberals so violent? :hmm:

Old political trick, organize protestors to gain free media attention in the hope of this reaction. "Looky here, all tham protestin dis guy, he must be sayin sumtin important!"

 

[Vic]

These people voluntarily came to hear Trump speak, and progressives voluntarily took active steps to come to where Trump was speaking also but instead with the intention of preventing the first group from hearing Trump or even preventing his speech outright. No one running for office is kidnapping people not inclined to vote for them and tying them to a chair to force them to listen to a stump speech. If and when Trump or anyone else WAS forcing people to listen to them I'd oppose that strongly also and would likewise approve of the use of force against those trying to make such things happen to others against their will.

I already said that I don't condone that behavior. You won't see me at any of rallies.
I do see this as reflective of his leadership though. He can't even control his own campaign much less the country.

 

[Vic]

The left doesnt preach fear? The left says vote for us or the other guys will deport you.
The left says vote for us, or the other guy will throw grandma off a cliff. etc etc etc.

Plenty of fear is shoveled by the left.

The difference there is that the other guys are in fact saying those things. I see threats to deport (or worse) native born American citizens on FB and Twitter literally every day.

 

[michal1980]

Couple things: our immigration laws are already being enforced, and being openly against the 1st and 14th amendments (as Trump and his supporters are) is not enforcing the law, it's breaking it.
But thanks for proving my point with the savages comment.

no they are not being enforced. if they were being enforced we wouldn't have millions of illegals.

 

[Vic]

Words aren't force and no one needs to accommodate your desire for a "safe space" where you don't need to hear words you disagree with.

Most of us learned by 1st grade how to handle it when someone calls you a bad name. Whether it's a 6 year old teasing by calling you a "poopyhead" or another message board poster saying "you're a traitor" doesn't make a difference. If you can't help but call that "force" then you need to put on your swim diaper and ask Mommy to give you a big hug and tell the scary monsters to go away.

Hi, fuck off. I don't appreciate having my words twisted so dishonestly.
What I said is that people have a right to not listen. If you want to twist that into that 'safe place' bullshit, that's your stupidity.

 

[Vic]

You live in a fantasy world of outrage, fueled by highly polarized stereotypes and boogiemen. You've bought into an ideology lock, stock and barrel and you sold your very soul for it...thinking that it somehow makes you a 'good person' and that anyone outside that bubble who doesn't agree are somehow evil. Your self-identity is wrapped in a lie.

Just gonna double down on your lies, eh?

 

[michal1980]

death panels sparky, death panels.
If you're not with us...
Obama's going to take your guns

we can do this all day I bet.

we could, but Vic makes it sound like fear mongering is something that only the right does.

 

[Vic]

death panels sparky, death panels.
If you're not with us...
Obama's going to take your guns

we can do this all day I bet.

It's freaking ridiculous and I'm getting sick of it.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I live in a fantasy world of outrage, fueled by stereotypes and boogiemen. I've bought into an ideology lock, stock and barrel and I sold my very soul for it...thinking that it somehow makes me a 'good person' and that anyone outside that bubble who doesn't agree are somehow evil. My self-identity is wrapped in a lie.

ABOVE: A rephrasing of post #180.

More true to the human condition then anyone can admit to.

 

[Vic]

we could, but Vic makes it sound like fear mongering is something that only the right does.

That's not what I said at all, but thanks.

 

[realibrad]

Just gonna double down on your lies, eh?

Liberalism and being a Liberal are very different things now.

Liberalism is about liberty and equality. Being a Liberal is to be part of a political group. When G.W. talked about Liberalism, he was talking about liberty and equality, not modern liberal ideas.

Just for clarity for everyone.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

More true to the human condition then anyone can admit to.

So true...I know it because I've lived it.

Edit: I now see that you made ninja edits to my quote...please correct.

 

[Vic]

Liberalism and being a Liberal are very different things now.

Liberalism is about liberty and equality. Being a Liberal is to be part of a political group. When G.W. talked about Liberalism, he was talking about liberty and equality, not modern liberal ideas.

Just for clarity for everyone.

Once again, bullshit. At the very heart of all of this is the conservative ideal that not everyone deserves equal protection of the law.

 

[LegendKiller]

I support capitalism, which includes meritocracy and free trade. Sorry if that means that there might be some non-white non-Christian American citizens out there with more merit than you.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[glenn1]

Hi, fuck off. I don't appreciate having my words twisted so dishonestly.
What I said is that people have a right to not listen. If you want to twist that into that 'safe place' bullshit, that's your stupidity.

People already have that right. I'm not a Trump supporter and I've not been forced to a word the man has spoken. Voluntarily turning on the TV and hearing Trump (or anyone else) isn't the same as saying "my right not to listen" has been compromised. And you need to grow up if you think you ARE being "forced to listen."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Once again, bullshit. At the very heart of all of this is the conservative ideal that not everyone deserves equal protection of the law.

Oh really? Care to substantiate this? You suffer a rather severe blow to the head this morning by chance?

 

[glenn1]

Once again, bullshit. At the very heart of all of this is the conservative ideal that not everyone deserves equal protection of the law.

And your side is saying that not everyone deserves equal enforcement of the law. If you're here illegally you should be deported without question.

Whether our immigration quotas need to be hugely raised to reflect reality and change the immigration mix more towards legal immigration and away from illegal immigration is another discussion altogether.

 

[Thebobo]

But she hasn't been condemning it either, nor has bernie. I don't know why trump isn't throwing that in their face. It'd be poetic justice.

Maybe because he likes it.