Just in Boy Scouts will allow boys & girls

[pauldun170]

Preparing boys to be men.
Prepare girls to be women.

What exactly is the difference when placed in the context of Scouting?

Why should there be separate tracks for girls and boys aside from the "Rape\Whore\Hormone\teenagers are savage animals that cannot be controlled" argument?

 

[ch33zw1z]

In theory, there shouldn't be an issue with boys and girls swimming together in the nude by your logic.

The most principled man in the world is very stupid if he thinks the principles in his head will shield him from endless temptation in his loins. A wise man avoids the temptation altogether.

The seed of victim blaming. It shall flourish in neglected personal responsibility.

 

[Atreus21]

The seed of victim blaming. It shall flourish in neglected personal responsibility.

The seed of victim blaming? You've lost me.

 

[RearAdmiral]

I was pretty involved in scouting. I'm interested to see how this works out. I had interactions with foreign integrated scouting groups and of course it was not a big deal to them, but everyone will freak out about it here. It is also interesting that it appears to be boy only or girl only dens though for now.

I don't really foresee any men voluntarily overseeing a girls only den(I know I would steer clear, even though I would love to pass on scouting skills to them), and I figure adult women would gravitate more towards leading the existing girl scouts anyway in that program.

So coming from an Eagle Scout, I give this 2 shrugs out of 5.

 

[Atreus21]

Why should there be separate tracks for girls and boys aside from the "Rape\Whore\Hormone\teenagers are savage animals that cannot be controlled" argument?

Because boys and girls have different interests, different ways of learning, and are different.

Not saying they need to be strictly separated. Just saying that groups that do segregate for the reasons above shouldn't be condemned.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Preparing boys to be men.
Prepare girls to be women.

What exactly is the difference when placed in the context of Scouting?

Why should there be separate tracks for girls and boys aside from the "Rape\Whore\Hormone\teenagers are savage animals that cannot be controlled" argument?

Again I'm certainly no expert in this field.
To me it's not about rape/whore or other crap it's about preteen to early teens boys screw up girls things and girls screw up boys things.
Similar to how the school separated boys and girls to introduce sex Ed.
Having 50% of the class be boys when the girls were talking about menstration would likely be a detriment to the girls learning something that will be an important part of life, us boys only needed an overview with pretty basic questions needing to be answered
Same with having girls in the room when we covered why looking at girls got you excited and why that's natural if I remember correctly they even touched upon don't force yourself on a girl. Having girls in that room would not have helped open discussion

 

[Puffnstuff]

I was a drill corporal in the army's first coed basic training company which is a lot like this action. It will have unique challenges but starting out at such a young age should benefit both parties.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Because boys and girls have different interests, different ways of learning, and are different.

Not saying they need to be strictly separated. Just saying that groups that do segregate for the reasons above shouldn't be condemned.

Way to genderalize.

Groups who choose to segregate can do so. Boy Scouts is staying relevant in a world that's changing. Try to keep up.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The seed of victim blaming? You've lost me.

Think about it, quote me later again if you still need an explanation.

 

[Atreus21]

Think about it, quote me later again if you still need an explanation.

Okay I thought about it. What did you mean?

 

[kinev]

The Girl Scouts seem to take issue with it. Granted, it's probably because of competition, but still an interesting take.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/girl-scou...ept-girls-134608349--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[Atreus21]

Way to genderalize.

Groups who choose to segregate can do so. Boy Scouts is staying relevant in a world that's changing. Try to keep up.

and more condescension and smugness.

 

[zinfamous]

I don't think anyone is upset about this, I certainly don't care. But the push behind it is what it is. It is ok to have an opinion on more than gun control, yes?

I don't think you know what the push behind this is. I think you are inventing one that makes sense to you. Don't worry, they will allow smoking within the year.

 

[senseamp]

Coed youth groups are nothing new. They are pretty common in other countries, and their kids grow up fine. And if you have son and daughter you can send them to same summer camp. Separating by gender is a moralistic American thing and it does not work.

 

[ch33zw1z]

and more condescension and smugness.

Way to write it off and keep that mind closed, good one.

My statements are the way it is. Sorry your feels are hurt.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Okay I thought about it. What did you mean?

Humor me, give it a shot. And I'll clarify my point. Who knows you might nail it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Okay I thought about it. What did you mean?

He's stating that the 'temptation of the loins' is a pathetic excuse for a) infidelity, or b) sexual assault, and that anyone who feels they should 'remove themselves from temptation' is either weak, or a liar. Victim blaming is built in to this notion by virtue of the dictator shunting personal responsibility in favor of victimhood, and in addition to that, is stating it's not truly his fault if something happens as a result of his 'tempted loins'. And if it ain't his fault, it must be the other parties'.

 

[snoopy7548]

As long as they still make Samoas and Thin Mints I really couldn't give a damn. I will say that the Boy Scouts need to come up with something better than those overpriced popcorn tins/bags, though, and at least offer the bags of unpopped kettle popcorn for all fundraisers (my co-worker's son's last two or three didn't have it).

 

[Starbuck1975]

Be careful what you wish for.

As we move towards a more progressive understanding of gender and identity, it is going to challenge many of our existing social norms and societal structures. If women can be Army Rangers and Marines, why the need for separate gender based scout organizations?

I find it interesting that the Girl Scouts are quite vocal and opposed to this. The next culture war brewing will be between progressives who seek a gender nonbinary world and feminist organizations for which gender is a strong source of identity and organizational strength.

However, if they do join the two Scout organization, lose the popcorn but keep the cookies. If we lose the cookies in all of this, I may have to take to the streets.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Be careful what you wish for.

As we move towards a more progressive understanding of gender and identity, it is going to challenge many of our existing social norms and societal structures. If women can be Army Rangers and Marines, why the need for separate gender based scout organizations?

I find it interesting that the Girl Scouts are quite vocal and opposed to this. The next culture war brewing will be between progressives who seek a gender nonbinary world and feminist organizations for which gender is a strong source of identity and organizational strength.

However, if they do join the two Scout organization, lose the popcorn but keep the cookies. If we lose the cookies in all of this, I may have to take to the streets.

Personally I think one can be confident and draw strong identity with their gender, regardless of which one (or which combination) they choose/identify with. I do take issue with others attempting to 'prescribe' gender/identity to others, which goes for both non-progressives and progressives. I label me, nobody else labels me.

Most probably won't agree with me, but I think we're rather quickly (in the US at least) moving past gender separation for most things. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if, in 50-100 years, it was looked on similar to the way we look on racially separated facilities now.

I agree on the cookies. I can make my own popcorn.

 

[Zorba]

As long as they still make Samoas and Thin Mints I really couldn't give a damn. I will say that the Boy Scouts need to come up with something better than those overpriced popcorn tins/bags, though, and at least offer the bags of unpopped kettle popcorn for all fundraisers (my co-worker's son's last two or three didn't have it).

Yeah, the boyscouts got scammed with the popcorn. Selling that was the worst thing about being in cub scouts.

 

[PottedMeat]

find it interesting that the Girl Scouts are quite vocal and opposed to this.

its all about the money, they can only lose donations, members, volunteers, etc.

they can evolve into some sort of high tech samoa-thinmint manufacturing powerhouse instead of contracting that stuff out

 

[Zorba]

In theory, there shouldn't be an issue with boys and girls swimming together in the nude by your logic.

The most principled man in the world is very stupid if he thinks the principles in his head will shield him from endless temptation in his loins. A wise man avoids the temptation altogether.

I doubt there is much nude swimming in Boy Scouts any more. But I've been to plenty of nude beaches, including some with kids at them, and people aren't just banging each other's brains out because they can't control themselves. Really, if you ever attempted it, going to a nudist beach the whole "Holy shit! That chick is naked and hot!" wears off in a few minutes and you move on with life.

Church camps have been co-ed for a long time, and I know tons of kids that were banging there. If kids want to have sex, they'll figure it out, regardless of the organization or clothing. Further, since the vast majority of sexual assault between teens and college kids involves alcohol, I don't really see a widespread breakout in sexual assault in the Scouts just because there is a girl in the next tent over.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Be careful what you wish for.

As we move towards a more progressive understanding of gender and identity, it is going to challenge many of our existing social norms and societal structures. If women can be Army Rangers and Marines, why the need for separate gender based scout organizations?

I find it interesting that the Girl Scouts are quite vocal and opposed to this. The next culture war brewing will be between progressives who seek a gender nonbinary world and feminist organizations for which gender is a strong source of identity and organizational strength.

However, if they do join the two Scout organization, lose the popcorn but keep the cookies. If we lose the cookies in all of this, I may have to take to the streets.

I don't think you understand feminism.

BTW this is something that has been warned about in every instance or progressive changes for as long as I've been alive, the slippery slope.

Girl Scouts represent the tradionalist ideal here, they sure as hell are not pushing a feminist ideal but rather the exact opposite. Girls should bake and sow and that is about it.

 

[Zorba]

I find it interesting that the Girl Scouts are quite vocal and opposed to this. The next culture war brewing will be between progressives who seek a gender nonbinary world and feminist organizations for which gender is a strong source of identity and organizational strength.

Yeah, their response makes me think even less of them. Of course internally they are going to be upset because it will only hurt them, but to be outwardly upset that girls will get more options seems like really bad PR. It kind of shows they are more interested in being a business than actually help girls grow into successful women. I wonder if women's only colleges had a similar response when women started being allowed into high end universities.